After having mine replaced earlier in the year the new one has now gone the same way as the old one :O(
hello......welcome back..hope you are having a nice holiday in France or are you are back in the country....thankyou for your comments.....we are reading through the 2000 plus owners who have contacted us, since the caravan club published our letter at the beginning of July 2010.
To date nearly 5000 owners have registered problems and we are now busy checking and cross checking our evidence. The company you refer to will be contacted shortly and we will shortly move to the next stage .regards Andrew
To date nearly 5000 owners have registered problems and we are now busy checking and cross checking our evidence. The company you refer to will be contacted shortly and we will shortly move to the next stage .regards Andrew
Thank you Andrew. Yes, we are still in France as someone has to support the French economy.
I regret that your Posts still offer little detailed information, and no detailed data, but a lot of innuendo, and therefore to my mind have little value.
Although anyone who has a window problem has my sympathy that in no way indicates that their particular problem may be in any way linked to a so called 'production failure' in a single facilty. There could be a multitude of reasons for each incident and I note that some 'complaints' are from owners of very new vans. That does not jibe with the previous data.
We are for example currently in the last 3 weeks of a 13 weeks stay on various sites in Europe and not one caravanner or motorhome owner has expressed any issue whatsoever with windows. Maybe they are all keeping quiet because of personal reasons, but I doubt it.
Some may suggest I have a vested interest, which is certainly not the case. I just do not see the evidence to indicate the vast scale of a so called problem associated evidently with a single manufacturer on certain dates. I am afraid that in my opinion having a letter published in the CC magazine does not equate per say with having a letter in the Times from 'Angry of Tunbridge Wells', although maybe they felt it was newsworthy. If the CC are giving you legal support then fine, they are putting their money where it counts, but are they? I regret as I am in France I have not read the mentioned article.
Therefore if you have the data and evidence, then publish, go to Court and resolve it. However, please stop enticing innocents down a path of false hope.
I regret that your Posts still offer little detailed information, and no detailed data, but a lot of innuendo, and therefore to my mind have little value.
Although anyone who has a window problem has my sympathy that in no way indicates that their particular problem may be in any way linked to a so called 'production failure' in a single facilty. There could be a multitude of reasons for each incident and I note that some 'complaints' are from owners of very new vans. That does not jibe with the previous data.
We are for example currently in the last 3 weeks of a 13 weeks stay on various sites in Europe and not one caravanner or motorhome owner has expressed any issue whatsoever with windows. Maybe they are all keeping quiet because of personal reasons, but I doubt it.
Some may suggest I have a vested interest, which is certainly not the case. I just do not see the evidence to indicate the vast scale of a so called problem associated evidently with a single manufacturer on certain dates. I am afraid that in my opinion having a letter published in the CC magazine does not equate per say with having a letter in the Times from 'Angry of Tunbridge Wells', although maybe they felt it was newsworthy. If the CC are giving you legal support then fine, they are putting their money where it counts, but are they? I regret as I am in France I have not read the mentioned article.
Therefore if you have the data and evidence, then publish, go to Court and resolve it. However, please stop enticing innocents down a path of false hope.
Hi Again....glad to here you are still on holiday...had many a good time in France, especially around Uzes and also the Drome.
To reply.we now have approaching 5000 owner reports on window defects. When the letter was published by the Caravan Club, in just 2 weeks we had 2300 reports.
Due to the work load, I have recruited a friend to help make sense of all the information we have gathered.
The manufacturers Polyplastic NL have admitted they have a problem, but to date have only offered a repair solution, which has proved to be unsatisfactory or a discount option which from owner reports is completely fictitious.
Due to the limitations of this forum, you are aware that I can not name dealers or go into specifics in great detail, but we do publish these details on our website and also offer advice where appropriate.
There have been many contributors, on this subject, in this forum, presenting all sides to the physical and legal aspects, which is much appreciated, as this provides a very balanced argument.
I know that your views are not consistent with my findings and I would not expect anyone just to agree, without seeing the facts, but that is not to say that I don't value them and I am prepared to listen to everyone's comments. My only interest is to resolve the issue of manufacturers liability.
As soon as we have finished documenting the evidence, Polyplastic NL will be the know and will be given the opportunity to reply. As you rightly point out this is crucial to the whole problem. Regards Andrew
To reply.we now have approaching 5000 owner reports on window defects. When the letter was published by the Caravan Club, in just 2 weeks we had 2300 reports.
Due to the work load, I have recruited a friend to help make sense of all the information we have gathered.
The manufacturers Polyplastic NL have admitted they have a problem, but to date have only offered a repair solution, which has proved to be unsatisfactory or a discount option which from owner reports is completely fictitious.
Due to the limitations of this forum, you are aware that I can not name dealers or go into specifics in great detail, but we do publish these details on our website and also offer advice where appropriate.
There have been many contributors, on this subject, in this forum, presenting all sides to the physical and legal aspects, which is much appreciated, as this provides a very balanced argument.
I know that your views are not consistent with my findings and I would not expect anyone just to agree, without seeing the facts, but that is not to say that I don't value them and I am prepared to listen to everyone's comments. My only interest is to resolve the issue of manufacturers liability.
As soon as we have finished documenting the evidence, Polyplastic NL will be the know and will be given the opportunity to reply. As you rightly point out this is crucial to the whole problem. Regards Andrew
Hi again....the thread on the Caravan Club letter has some interesting points on SOGA.........Andrew
Hello Andrew,
while your goal is respectable and I would really appreciate having replacement windows for free (just as everyone else I guess), this whole action sounds a bit ironic to me. In fact you are gathering all concerned peoples to defend their particular interests in a class action lawsuit (wich is already contradictory), to sue a manufacturer who is making a recall in a way that is supposed to guarantee his survivability (if what they say is true). Should this action succeed, the manufacturer would probably go bankrupt. This would by far not be the first case where a condemned company goes bust before even being able to pay the compensation ordered by court. As a consequence, little to no one would get any replacement windows, as those plastic parts are made with casting moulds specific to that manufacturer no other could take that part over, and even if they wouldn't want to (and have to). As a result all remaining concerned owners would have no solution left, not even windows at reduced price, to make their vehicle secure.
I would understand that you don't want to hear this at this stage, seen all the troubles you've made yourself so far, but you really should reconsider your definition of "particular interests". As Rousseau said, they rarely match the common good. In fact I'm starting to fear not getting any windows at all when I read you. At this moment I'm having trouble getting the recall done at all, it is impossible to get an appointment for this anywhere, and I'm asking myself if those troubles could be linked to what you are doing. And as we are talking about it, my particular interest would be to have my vehicle safe to travel, and not to risk an ongoing lawsuit while my vehicle is stuck to finally go out with nothing.
So although this sounds all very tempting to me, I think I will not cede to this utopia and keep on trying to have my windows replaced at whatever the price may be. This whole matter would at least have offered the insight that I won't buy any vehicle equipped with Polyplastic windows anymore.
while your goal is respectable and I would really appreciate having replacement windows for free (just as everyone else I guess), this whole action sounds a bit ironic to me. In fact you are gathering all concerned peoples to defend their particular interests in a class action lawsuit (wich is already contradictory), to sue a manufacturer who is making a recall in a way that is supposed to guarantee his survivability (if what they say is true). Should this action succeed, the manufacturer would probably go bankrupt. This would by far not be the first case where a condemned company goes bust before even being able to pay the compensation ordered by court. As a consequence, little to no one would get any replacement windows, as those plastic parts are made with casting moulds specific to that manufacturer no other could take that part over, and even if they wouldn't want to (and have to). As a result all remaining concerned owners would have no solution left, not even windows at reduced price, to make their vehicle secure.
I would understand that you don't want to hear this at this stage, seen all the troubles you've made yourself so far, but you really should reconsider your definition of "particular interests". As Rousseau said, they rarely match the common good. In fact I'm starting to fear not getting any windows at all when I read you. At this moment I'm having trouble getting the recall done at all, it is impossible to get an appointment for this anywhere, and I'm asking myself if those troubles could be linked to what you are doing. And as we are talking about it, my particular interest would be to have my vehicle safe to travel, and not to risk an ongoing lawsuit while my vehicle is stuck to finally go out with nothing.
So although this sounds all very tempting to me, I think I will not cede to this utopia and keep on trying to have my windows replaced at whatever the price may be. This whole matter would at least have offered the insight that I won't buy any vehicle equipped with Polyplastic windows anymore.
H Fred............thankyou for your comments...........The problem we have with this company, is more to do with its remedial actions and the total negative re action of some dealers and manufacturers to take this issue seriously...........I have now received many thousands of emails from affected owners, .....I agree that the outcome, may be that the window manfacturer will face financial implications, but they are a large company who need to be pro active in this problem.......many thousands have paid out for replacement windows and manufacturer and their agents are actually making a profit from their mistakes........There is also the safety issue for other road users......Burstner is one of the few companies, to report the delamination issue with UK VOSA but unfortunately underestimated the scale of the problem, its unreliable recall/fix and its implications....(an issue that British manufacturers should look at, especially on safety)........I fully understand what you are saying and you could be proved right in this instance..........thankyou once again for your very reasoned argument........I am not blinkered in this case and appreciate everyones comments.
Hi Fred.....thankyou for contacting me via our website.....I have sent you a reply with hopefully some positive news...regards Andrew
Hello Andrew,
and thanks again for your quick answers.
Let me make myself the devil's advocate for one moment.
I wonder how you may know that dealers and manufacturer make profit out of this recall. If it was profitable for the dealers I would surely have much less problems getting an appointment. Dealers are not interested as long as they have more profitable work beside, and it seems like there is much much more proftable work, enough for sending me away. The manufacturer cannot make profit out of a FOC screwing solution, and wouldn't have to offer it at all if the discounted windows were profitable. If your claim bases on this, you should make sure to have real evidences for the court, and I doubt that you will get access to the profit margin calculation of the window manufacturer. But seen the discount offered on the normal window price, 65%, I doubt that there is much profit left (I mean transport and fitting costs included), if at all. I mean we're not talking about fashion boutique margins...
Thank you also for the link you sent me by mail. Unfortunately, as I supposed, the windows are not suitable at all. As you may know, the Polyplastic windows have no frame at all. I allready thought about fitting similar windows from Seitz (belongs to Dometic), but solely the fact that the frames have to be mounted costs up to 1,5 hours work. The discounted Poly-Windows are cheaper here.
Beside this, I agree to the fact that the other makes concerned by this issue have to take their responsabilities, at least as Burstner did, and inform their clients about the potential danger for them and others. Maybe they even tried to do so. I think Burstner had to make much pressure on Polyplastic to get this recall started, smaller brands maybe couldn't... and that's where you could come in. For this you have my support, even if "my" brand has an official recall.
and thanks again for your quick answers.
Let me make myself the devil's advocate for one moment.
I wonder how you may know that dealers and manufacturer make profit out of this recall. If it was profitable for the dealers I would surely have much less problems getting an appointment. Dealers are not interested as long as they have more profitable work beside, and it seems like there is much much more proftable work, enough for sending me away. The manufacturer cannot make profit out of a FOC screwing solution, and wouldn't have to offer it at all if the discounted windows were profitable. If your claim bases on this, you should make sure to have real evidences for the court, and I doubt that you will get access to the profit margin calculation of the window manufacturer. But seen the discount offered on the normal window price, 65%, I doubt that there is much profit left (I mean transport and fitting costs included), if at all. I mean we're not talking about fashion boutique margins...
Thank you also for the link you sent me by mail. Unfortunately, as I supposed, the windows are not suitable at all. As you may know, the Polyplastic windows have no frame at all. I allready thought about fitting similar windows from Seitz (belongs to Dometic), but solely the fact that the frames have to be mounted costs up to 1,5 hours work. The discounted Poly-Windows are cheaper here.
Beside this, I agree to the fact that the other makes concerned by this issue have to take their responsabilities, at least as Burstner did, and inform their clients about the potential danger for them and others. Maybe they even tried to do so. I think Burstner had to make much pressure on Polyplastic to get this recall started, smaller brands maybe couldn't... and that's where you could come in. For this you have my support, even if "my" brand has an official recall.
HI JUST READ ABOUT DELAM WINDOWS IN
CLUB MAG
I HAVE A 2006 ACE JUBILEE DIPLOMAT
BOUGHT IN 2007 IN 2008 NOTICED WINDOW
DELAMINATION ON FRONT OFFSIDE WINDOW
TOOK PROBLEM UP WITH MY DEALER ONLY
TO BE TOLD YES SWIFT'S DID HAVE A
PROBLEM BUT THE WINDOWS WERE ONLY
UNDER WARRENTY FOR 1 YEAR SO NOTHING
COULD BE DONE
REGARDS COLIN
CLUB MAG
I HAVE A 2006 ACE JUBILEE DIPLOMAT
BOUGHT IN 2007 IN 2008 NOTICED WINDOW
DELAMINATION ON FRONT OFFSIDE WINDOW
TOOK PROBLEM UP WITH MY DEALER ONLY
TO BE TOLD YES SWIFT'S DID HAVE A
PROBLEM BUT THE WINDOWS WERE ONLY
UNDER WARRENTY FOR 1 YEAR SO NOTHING
COULD BE DONE
REGARDS COLIN
Hi Colin ........please see swifts reply.....in this forum..'sprite alpine front window' regards Andrew
Having just returned to the UK, and internet again I have noted some of the comments made in respect of this issue. I also have read a Post from yourself on another Forum and still see little to give me any form of clarification of either the extent, or actual data regarding this so called issue. You list various manufacturers whose products have evidently had issues, but in the main these are UK ones. The principal ones are 'in the hundreds' not the tens of thousands originally postulated. Total EU caravan and motorhome production averages about 60000 units per annum, so over 10 years what are we looking at? There is also no mention whatsoever of any Tirus Group products, which being basically Dutch suppliers would reasonably be expected to utilise the products of Polyplastic NL. As Tirus in its heyday was the largest producers of caravans in Europe one would reasonably expect it to be prominent. I doubt the Dutch are reticent about any issues such as these. Do you have this data? Additionally as UK manufactured vans would reasonably be expected to have windows supplied by the UK subsidiary, does this mean that they to 'failed' in the production of the products? It may be easier if this was the case to pursue a legal action against a UK Company rather than try to get redress from a EU Company. I know we are all in Europe but we all know that the rules apply differently in each country.
I also read some Posts from owners who stated that yes, they had a problem with a window on 'their 1998 outfit', and this was discovered in 2008. To have a window fail after 10 years use is not I feel something one could claim was a manufacturing fault, and demand 100% replacement. A reasonable lifespan for use is accepted regardless of what you buy.
Similarly to indicate that the manufacturer is in default of Soga by advertising any recall issue is not really realistic as we have had manufacturers such as Toyota etc recalling cars ad infinitum for faults, and again the nearest dealer is authorised to make the repair. Even Fiat and Peugeot have recalled motorhomes due to a juddering issue in the gear box. These were all done outside of dealerships.
Polyplastic NL have offered factory made replacement windows at 35% of catalogue price. Each owner will have to decide whether this cost is relevant to the fact that until it is done he/she cannot sell the van, or really be comfortable with what he/she currently has. Also you imply that the cost for all the windows could be in the region of
I also read some Posts from owners who stated that yes, they had a problem with a window on 'their 1998 outfit', and this was discovered in 2008. To have a window fail after 10 years use is not I feel something one could claim was a manufacturing fault, and demand 100% replacement. A reasonable lifespan for use is accepted regardless of what you buy.
Similarly to indicate that the manufacturer is in default of Soga by advertising any recall issue is not really realistic as we have had manufacturers such as Toyota etc recalling cars ad infinitum for faults, and again the nearest dealer is authorised to make the repair. Even Fiat and Peugeot have recalled motorhomes due to a juddering issue in the gear box. These were all done outside of dealerships.
Polyplastic NL have offered factory made replacement windows at 35% of catalogue price. Each owner will have to decide whether this cost is relevant to the fact that until it is done he/she cannot sell the van, or really be comfortable with what he/she currently has. Also you imply that the cost for all the windows could be in the region of
Hi.......hope you had a good holiday........with the amount of information coming in everyday, it has been difficult to be specific on numbers, because we do not know at this stage the final numbers involved..........we did not expect to uncover the 'a bit thin in the plastic' problem, we are really concerned with delamination, as this poses a safety issue and has been found to affect UK manufacturers, who used the same polyplastic windows as Burstner, who in turn felt the problem was significant enough to notify VOSA.
I really appreciate your comments and although you remain unconvinced, time will only tell.........I really didn't expect to be working almost full time on this issue and probably wouldn't have started, if I had realised just what was involved, its really driven now, by the number of owners who have contacted me. Do we wait until one of these windows flys across a motorway and causes a serious or fatal crash?..if it can happen, as you know it will happen.........................Did you get down to Mirepoix and the Ariege?.......regards Andrew
I really appreciate your comments and although you remain unconvinced, time will only tell.........I really didn't expect to be working almost full time on this issue and probably wouldn't have started, if I had realised just what was involved, its really driven now, by the number of owners who have contacted me. Do we wait until one of these windows flys across a motorway and causes a serious or fatal crash?..if it can happen, as you know it will happen.........................Did you get down to Mirepoix and the Ariege?.......regards Andrew
I'm having the first service on my 2009 van done by my mobile service engineer on the 27th August. Because the replacement window has gone the same as the original I gave him a call today to forewarn him. He told me they will replace it again but he will sort it out on the 27th. As a coincidence, he told me that as I spoke to him he was just replacing the fourth window on a customers caravan.
Contrary to what some may think my money is on there's something seriously wrong with the manufacture of these windows.
P.S. It wasn't until I pressed the window today that I realised how thin and pliable the plastic is.
Contrary to what some may think my money is on there's something seriously wrong with the manufacture of these windows.
P.S. It wasn't until I pressed the window today that I realised how thin and pliable the plastic is.
LB,
I sympathise with your window issue but sorry have to disagree with yoru comment about 'something seriously being wrong with the manufacture' Considering that since 1998 to date there must have been in excess of a million caravans and motorhomes produced, then the failure rate is certainly undesirable, but a major malfunction??
What concerns me is that noone has produced any data supporting the claims that this is a major problem. If I was an owner with a problem then yes, I sure as Hell think it is important. But does that mean it is industry wide and generic? I suspect that any group of car owners could also tell you of 'horror stories' of their particular vehicles, and similarly with house owners. The opinon emanating from various sources is that there was aproduction failure but the data so far in no way confirms that. Even on a single van or motorhome it may be the case that 1 window alone has a problem, yet all the others were made at the same time, and are perfectly fine. I accept that a failure can occur in any production process, but usually these are isolated and can be identified and rectified.
The 'thin windows' issue is another issue entirely. Here no complaint is being made regarding the bonding but the plastic itself is too thin. One does wonder if the van manufacturer, who must have specified what they wanted supplied, made a screw up, as it does not affect every van/motorhome on the market. In this case is this the fault of the window supplier, or the van manufacturer?
I am not trying to denigrate the issue but I look around Europe and see hundreds if not thousands of vans/motorhome of various ages, all with no problems whatsoever, so I remain totally confused. In additon apart from Burstner to my knowledge no other manufacturer has come forward to imtimate there could be a problem. Is this because they are all trying to hide and pretend nothing is worng, or that they have no evidence to suggest a major epidemic requiring them to notify the authorities, as they are obliged to do under Law.
I would also appreciate it if anyone could copy any articles from the Press in Europe also acknowledging the issue. There must be some out there. I checked the ABC Club of Holland, but nothing mentioned.
I sympathise with your window issue but sorry have to disagree with yoru comment about 'something seriously being wrong with the manufacture' Considering that since 1998 to date there must have been in excess of a million caravans and motorhomes produced, then the failure rate is certainly undesirable, but a major malfunction??
What concerns me is that noone has produced any data supporting the claims that this is a major problem. If I was an owner with a problem then yes, I sure as Hell think it is important. But does that mean it is industry wide and generic? I suspect that any group of car owners could also tell you of 'horror stories' of their particular vehicles, and similarly with house owners. The opinon emanating from various sources is that there was aproduction failure but the data so far in no way confirms that. Even on a single van or motorhome it may be the case that 1 window alone has a problem, yet all the others were made at the same time, and are perfectly fine. I accept that a failure can occur in any production process, but usually these are isolated and can be identified and rectified.
The 'thin windows' issue is another issue entirely. Here no complaint is being made regarding the bonding but the plastic itself is too thin. One does wonder if the van manufacturer, who must have specified what they wanted supplied, made a screw up, as it does not affect every van/motorhome on the market. In this case is this the fault of the window supplier, or the van manufacturer?
I am not trying to denigrate the issue but I look around Europe and see hundreds if not thousands of vans/motorhome of various ages, all with no problems whatsoever, so I remain totally confused. In additon apart from Burstner to my knowledge no other manufacturer has come forward to imtimate there could be a problem. Is this because they are all trying to hide and pretend nothing is worng, or that they have no evidence to suggest a major epidemic requiring them to notify the authorities, as they are obliged to do under Law.
I would also appreciate it if anyone could copy any articles from the Press in Europe also acknowledging the issue. There must be some out there. I checked the ABC Club of Holland, but nothing mentioned.
Hi..I can only within the restrictions of the forum, bring it to the attention of everyone how serious the implications are to a large number of owners, if they own a caravan affected by delamination.......if you go through this forum and others you will find many independant threads on this subject. I have also within the last month been contacted by a large number of Caravan Club members, who are also affected, supported by correspondence with manufacturers and photographs.
There is no point in making up a case..what gain is it to me or anyone else.......I understand entirely that you would like more detail, but again within the terms of the forum, there are a lot of restrictions.I am really trying to put a positive point across and as I have said before I welcome all comments...this helps to keep the subject healthy and keeps a check on any bias, from me or anyone else......I promise to try harder...thankyou once again for your comments and those of others, for or against.........Do you have any comments on the VOSA issue?..........regards Andrew
There is no point in making up a case..what gain is it to me or anyone else.......I understand entirely that you would like more detail, but again within the terms of the forum, there are a lot of restrictions.I am really trying to put a positive point across and as I have said before I welcome all comments...this helps to keep the subject healthy and keeps a check on any bias, from me or anyone else......I promise to try harder...thankyou once again for your comments and those of others, for or against.........Do you have any comments on the VOSA issue?..........regards Andrew
Sorry SL, I find it unbelievable that after having 4 windows fitted, the first 3 having the same problem, you think it isn't a serious problem. I would like to know what in your book constitutes 'serious'.
I know what the problem is and hundreds of others know what the problem is, including my dogs and my sons parrot, so why doesn't the manufacturer who keeps churning out windows with the same faulty specifications?
I know what the problem is and hundreds of others know what the problem is, including my dogs and my sons parrot, so why doesn't the manufacturer who keeps churning out windows with the same faulty specifications?
Parksy
Moderator
- Nov 12, 2009
- 11,904
- 2,400
- 40,935
Apologies for jumping in to the thread at this point but I'd just like to mention that as long as the topic remains within the rules of this forum there are no 'restrictions' being imposed on the exchange of information as far as this forum is concerned.
There are only two forum rules which could affect this topic.
The first is rule 2 which states:
'You may not transmit intentionally false, misleading or fraudulent information.'
Obviously the transmission of such information would seriously undermine any website set up to gather accurate information about window problems.
The second and most obvious rule is rule 4 which states:
'You may not transmit complaints about named companies or caravan parks. Such individual issues should be taken up with the company direct.'
Any accurate information which casts light on this subject will benefit both caravan owners and ultimately manufacturers, one can only hope that this very real problem can soon be solved to the satisfaction of all concerned.
There are only two forum rules which could affect this topic.
The first is rule 2 which states:
'You may not transmit intentionally false, misleading or fraudulent information.'
Obviously the transmission of such information would seriously undermine any website set up to gather accurate information about window problems.
The second and most obvious rule is rule 4 which states:
'You may not transmit complaints about named companies or caravan parks. Such individual issues should be taken up with the company direct.'
Any accurate information which casts light on this subject will benefit both caravan owners and ultimately manufacturers, one can only hope that this very real problem can soon be solved to the satisfaction of all concerned.
Hi Parksy..........Thankyou for the clarification....for anyone who requires confirmation that this is a real problem, please go to....... http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/apps/recalls/searches/expand.asp?uniqueID=B2CB613DE8C3E73C802574670036B451&freeText=Blank&tx=VOSA
hope this helps and thankyou for your patience.......regards Andrew
hope this helps and thankyou for your patience.......regards Andrew
Quote Parksy .. 'You may not transmit intentionally false, misleading or fraudulent information.'
I'm quite happy to give you Richards phone # to check out what I said above, that the caravan he was working on was now on it's fourth centre window, all with the same problem. Unfortunately he didn't mention the make and as this was of no consequence to me I didn't bother to ask.
I'm quite happy to give you Richards phone # to check out what I said above, that the caravan he was working on was now on it's fourth centre window, all with the same problem. Unfortunately he didn't mention the make and as this was of no consequence to me I didn't bother to ask.
- Jun 20, 2005
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Serious??
Any food manufacturer who discovers "foreign bodies" in their products will do an immediate product recall. Cadbury's springs to mind. If 10 in 1 million is defective / contaminated a recall is done. Babyfoods had similar problems a while back.
My last two Baileys made in 2004 & 2008 have no problems with their windows, none I am aware of. The chap I met on holiday had problems with a number of his polyplastic windows fitted to his Buccanneer. They are gossamer thin.
He is lucky . His is 13 months old.
1. The correct one for him is to sort it out is with his dealer.
There can be no doubt that the number of reported / known failures / defects ascertained by Andrew are indicative of a "serious" problem.
In engineerring terms perhaps one of our engineers will define what is a serious engineering problem / failure.
Andrew , well done for trying so hard to solve this issue.
Cheers
Dustydog
Any food manufacturer who discovers "foreign bodies" in their products will do an immediate product recall. Cadbury's springs to mind. If 10 in 1 million is defective / contaminated a recall is done. Babyfoods had similar problems a while back.
My last two Baileys made in 2004 & 2008 have no problems with their windows, none I am aware of. The chap I met on holiday had problems with a number of his polyplastic windows fitted to his Buccanneer. They are gossamer thin.
He is lucky . His is 13 months old.
1. The correct one for him is to sort it out is with his dealer.
There can be no doubt that the number of reported / known failures / defects ascertained by Andrew are indicative of a "serious" problem.
In engineerring terms perhaps one of our engineers will define what is a serious engineering problem / failure.
Andrew , well done for trying so hard to solve this issue.
Cheers
Dustydog
According to Burstner themselves, (I had the guy in charge of the recall on the phone, unspellable name though), the delamination is due to the colour used between the bonding (light grey), wich chemical composition seems unstable combined with UV exposure. I wonder however how the chemical composition could be different to other colours from the same manufacturer, since the colour consists in pigments rather than chemicals. So in fact it cannot mean that the colours chosen by other vehicle manufacturer may not be affected. It may be quite the contrary in fact! So I believe Andrew when he reports the same problems on other brands, in fact I have observed it for myself on various campings. So beside the problems I experience in service wasteland UK I'm rather content to own a Burstner.
Andrew, if you want to proove something, I think you should catch the lab report that states the cause for the delamination and have checked if the other windows have the same components - or compare directly with the Burstner windows, that may be easier. There is no doubt that any case will have to be supported by expensive lab proofs.
Andrew, if you want to proove something, I think you should catch the lab report that states the cause for the delamination and have checked if the other windows have the same components - or compare directly with the Burstner windows, that may be easier. There is no doubt that any case will have to be supported by expensive lab proofs.
Hi..thankyou for everyones comments and support..This issue is progressing well, one factor, of many, is to try and protect owners from any serious safety concerns. From the many reports, we now know that a number of UK manufactures are affected by the delamination problem. (please see previous posts for which brands)
The Caravan Club published my letter, which has helped enormously and for those members who contacted me, I am happy that they are now aware of the dangers involved. Some are having their windows replaced at their own expense, again for safety reasons, some have tried to glue windows together, something we do not recommend, again for safety reasons.
Fred has made a very good point about Polyplastic and the financial implications and I agree that forcing this company into difficulties, is really not our aim.
More publicity would be beneficial.(Nigel if you are reading this).
I do believe, this whole issue will end in a safety recall, by UK manufactuers and if thats all we can achieve, at least no one will suffer injury, physical or financial.
Whats ironic, is the company that highlighted this problem in the first instance, Burstner, actually did the right thing by contacting VOSA and at least attempted to address the safety issue..unfortunately due to cost restraints, this has proved less than satisfactory....but they did try....As Parksy said hopefully we will be able to resolve this issue sooner than later....regards Andrew
The Caravan Club published my letter, which has helped enormously and for those members who contacted me, I am happy that they are now aware of the dangers involved. Some are having their windows replaced at their own expense, again for safety reasons, some have tried to glue windows together, something we do not recommend, again for safety reasons.
Fred has made a very good point about Polyplastic and the financial implications and I agree that forcing this company into difficulties, is really not our aim.
More publicity would be beneficial.(Nigel if you are reading this).
I do believe, this whole issue will end in a safety recall, by UK manufactuers and if thats all we can achieve, at least no one will suffer injury, physical or financial.
Whats ironic, is the company that highlighted this problem in the first instance, Burstner, actually did the right thing by contacting VOSA and at least attempted to address the safety issue..unfortunately due to cost restraints, this has proved less than satisfactory....but they did try....As Parksy said hopefully we will be able to resolve this issue sooner than later....regards Andrew
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