Puncture on motorway No Spare Wheel. Rubbish Tyre Inflator

[Jcloughie]

My Sorento had a full size spare on an OEM alloy with identical tyre too. It even sat underneath the car and could be winched down without having to unload the boot. My worst nightmare when on a journey with a packed car.

My Citroen XM had the winch system. You needed to get to the rear of the boot to find the nut head but this could be done without emptying the boot so long as the spanner was’nt buried.

Could be a bit dirty but better than getting a flat at the very top of Shap, at night in driving rain driving a Marina with a full boot. Lucky for me, a police landrover pulled on the hard shoulder behind me so I could use his headlights. He was not daft enough to get out and help.

John

 

[RogerL]

Unfortunately the well in the newer Jeeps cannot accommodate the 20" spare. On the 2005 the spare was winched down, but you sill needed to access the bolt. The previous and current Jeep you need to take everything out the back to access the wheel plus remove all the caravan junk on the top of the spare. LOL! 😆

Similarly the VW Touareg can't accomodate a full-size spare in the wheel well so it has an almost unique space-saver which expands in diameter when pumped up - but the boot has to be emptied to access it.

 

[JTQ]

Similarly the VW Touareg can't accomodate a full-size spare in the wheel well so it has an almost unique space-saver which expands in diameter when pumped up - but the boot has to be emptied to access it.

Then there is the issue of where the removed road wheel goes; experience is they are "big" things when put in a boot.

With the first generation Touareg, in 2004, I had one set up for towing on extended demonstration, I was told if I had a puncture towing I could not use the spacesaver on one particular axle. I would have to shuffle things if needed. I think it must have been the rear axle.

However, even with those things, including using loan lights for going to the Continent, we liked the car expect its 2.5 tdi engine, in which evidently, we were not unique, as the lovely 3 litre tdi replaced it. Thankfully, they never had the V10 tdi to loan me!

 

[RogerL]

Then there is the issue of where the removed road wheel goes; experience is they are "big" things when put in a boot.

With the first generation Touareg, in 2004, I had one set up for towing on extended demonstration, I was told if I had a puncture towing I could not use the spacesaver on one particular axle. I would have to shuffle things if needed. I think it must have been the rear axle.

However, even with those things, including using loan lights for going to the Continent, we liked the car expect its 2.5 tdi engine, in which evidently, we were not unique, as the lovely 3 litre tdi replaced it. Thankfully, they never had the V10 tdi to loan me!

Like the Phaeton, the 1st generation Touareg was a premium model, sold only by elite VW dealers with special aftersales including like-for-like courtesy cars - the later Touaregs could be sold by any VW dealer with no special treatment for customers, indeed it's worse treatment as the service "advisors" think it's just a big Golf - I regularly get invited to have my DSG fluid changed despite the fact it doesn't use a DSG - thankfully!

The V10 was "just" two I5's on a common crankshaft - it's a pig to service with too many service items needing the engine out which is a time-consuming job.

 

[GaryB]

Managed to find room for the jack and brace under the floor but it’s surprising how much room even a space saver takes up!

 

[Dustydog]

My previous Mk 1 Sorentos were the text book answer. As Clive said a real ally full sized spare . Access was via the extraordinary long handle for the Jack. It fitted in a hole at the end of the boot and wound down the spare.
The super compressed Touareg spare is allegedly self collapsing after use. I’m not sure but don’t intend trying it😉😉

 

[Buckman]

Another issue for us is the weight of the spare wheel. The 18" weighs a ton, but the 20" even more. As mentioned, what do you do with the 20" as the wheel will not fit into the well for you to put all your luggage back into the car on top of the wheel?

 

[Mr Plodd]

How often do you have the boot full of luggage? Certainly a fairly small percentage of the overall time the car is in use. If towing you always have the caravan to put some of the luggage (rather than the heavy spare) can go into short term. It Might put you slightly over the caravans MTPLM, but what are the chances of you being stopped during that period and, under 25 section 19 inchbthe circumstances a warning rather than a prosecution is the probable course of action that would be taken.

Well that's my theory anyway. (I have 225 section 19 inch tyres so the wheels are indeed huge, hence me buying a spacesaver) But I won't be stuck at the roadside in the event of a wrecked tyre

 

[Buckman]

How often do you have the boot full of luggage? Certainly a fairly small percentage of the overall time the car is in use. If towing you always have the caravan to put some of the luggage (rather than the heavy spare) can go into short term. It Might put you slightly over the caravans MTPLM, but what are the chances of you being stopped during that period and, under 25 section 19 inchbthe circumstances a warning rather than a prosecution is the probable course of action that would be taken.

Well that's my theory anyway. (I have 225 section 19 inch tyres so the wheels are indeed huge, hence me buying a spacesaver) But I won't be stuck at the roadside in the event of a wrecked tyre

The vehicle is mainly used for towing the caravan so probably a lot more than 60% of the time. Our caravan is close to the limited so would not want to put too much in it. Plus there is always the danger than you may have to brake sharply for some idiot. Our nose weight is already at 145kg so caravan would need to be loaded very carefully to avoid excceding the nose weight. Towball can handle up to 185kg.

 

[RogerL]

The vehicle is mainly used for towing the caravan so probably a lot more than 60% of the time. Our caravan is close to the limited so would not want to put too much in it. Plus there is always the danger than you may have to brake sharply for some idiot. Our nose weight is already at 145kg so caravan would need to be loaded very carefully to avoid excceding the nose weight. Towball can handle up to 185kg.

I'm just resigned to having to unload the boot if I get a puncture, and then reorganise it to accomodate the larger defunct road wheel - basically by moving things from the boot to the back seat - no issue with just two of us but could be problematical with a family.

Out in Australia and North America, they'll often ditch the space saver using the space for something else and then have a full-size matching spare stored upright at the side of the boot - it can be put into a cover and strapped down using the tie-down loops in many SUVs.

 

[Buckman]

I'm just resigned to having to unload the boot if I get a puncture, and then reorganise it to accomodate the larger defunct road wheel - basically by moving things from the boot to the back seat - no issue with just two of us but could be problematical with a family.

Out in Australia and North America, they'll often ditch the space saver using the space for something else and then have a full-size matching spare stored upright at the side of the boot - it can be put into a cover and strapped down using the tie-down loops in many SUVs.

Good idea as some of the goodies in the rear can be put into the spare wheel well making room for the 20" tyre to stand upright in the rear. Never thought of that! Thanks.

 

[otherclive]

I'm just resigned to having to unload the boot if I get a puncture, and then reorganise it to accomodate the larger defunct road wheel - basically by moving things from the boot to the back seat - no issue with just two of us but could be problematical with a family.

Out in Australia and North America, they'll often ditch the space saver using the space for something else and then have a full-size matching spare stored upright at the side of the boot - it can be put into a cover and strapped down using the tie-down loops in many SUVs.

When I sold my first Forester I reinstated the space saver spare wheel. Then sold the Subaru 17 inch alloy that I had bought when I converted the rear end to accept the full size wheel and tyre. I bought some parts via a friend in Australia as all Subarus going into Australia had to have full size spares. The full size spare wouldn’t exactly fit the space saver well and the kit of parts basically raised the boot floor about 25mm so there was a slight raised lip at rear of the boot floor. But the chap that bought the full size spare said he planned to just keep it in the luggage area.

 

[Sam Vimes]

I'm sure I read somewhere that if you have to replace a tyre with a space saver then its not advisable to tow anything. Might have been if it was just on the rear.

 

[otherclive]

I'm sure I read somewhere that if you have to replace a tyre with a space saver then its not advisable to tow anything. Might have been if it was just on the rear.

There seems to be different advice. My Volvo recommended fitting to rear as Haldex might start cutting in if fitted to front. But since they are rated for full vehicle load they should be suitable. On 2WD no problem if rear mounted as no differential effect. But I think some manufacturers are playing safe by saying no towing. It could be a type approval issue.

 

[Buckman]

I'm sure I read somewhere that if you have to replace a tyre with a space saver then its not advisable to tow anything. Might have been if it was just on the rear.

I would have thought that a space saver on the rear is safer than a space saver on the front? After all it is only there for you to compete your journey and get to the nearest tyre depot.

 

[Dustydog]

I'm sure I read somewhere that if you have to replace a tyre with a space saver then its not advisable to tow anything. Might have been if it was just on the rear.

The VW Touareg Manual does not forbid towing with the space saver. In fact it is silent. But it does give a lot of dos and don’t s eg no snow chains. I understand the design ensures it is street U.K. legal and can cope with all the axle loadings stated. Thus towing assuming you stick to the OEM loads is acceptable and technically ok.

 

[JTQ]

An aspect of the space saver type of spare that would relate to towing, stability whilst towing, is that it alters the lateral stiffness of the vehicle. Plus, asymmetrically in that one wheel of the axle will have a different lateral stiffness to the other.

My initial though un studied thoughts, if facing having to make an on-the-spot decision, would lean more to using the space saver on the front, in respect to the unit's towing stability.
Fortunately, our Disco 4 carries an identical road wheel as its spare.

 

[Dustydog]

If VW supply it I have to assume it is fully capable of towing within the prescribed parameters stated in the Owners Manual. I suspect having the SS on the front may impose greater loads because of steering braking etc. But still with tolerance

 

[otherclive]

An aspect of the space saver type of spare that would relate to towing, stability whilst towing, is that it alters the lateral stiffness of the vehicle. Plus, asymmetrically in that one wheel of the axle will have a different lateral stiffness to the other.

My initial though un studied thoughts, if facing having to make an on-the-spot decision, would lean more to using the space saver on the front, in respect to the unit's towing stability.
Fortunately, our Disco 4 carries an identical road wheel as its spare.

But the approach surely is to drive within the limits imposed by the space saver. So 50 mph limit where appropriate and plan manoeuvres accordingly anticipating what is going on around you.

 

[JTQ]

But the approach surely is to drive within the limits imposed by the space saver. So 50 mph limit where appropriate and plan manoeuvres accordingly anticipating what is going on around you.

Definitely.
I was not suggesting towing outside of the limits placed on the space saver, just to be aware at like for like speeds, the unit's stability characteristics must be affected by a "ss".

As said, my initial thoughts are placing the "ss" on the front should minimise the changes found in the unit's stability behaviour.

Towing at speeds of 50 mph or slower on the like of motorways, however is slow enough to bring with it other dangers; best as briefly exposed the better.

 

[otherclive]

Definitely.
I was not suggesting towing outside of the limits placed on the space saver, just to be aware at like for like speeds, the unit's stability characteristics must be affected by a "ss".

As said, my initial thoughts are placing the "ss" on the front should minimise the changes found in the unit's stability behaviour.

Towing at speeds of 50 mph or slower on the like of motorways, however is slow enough to bring with it other dangers; best as briefly exposed the better.

I’d agree your comments wrt towing slowly on a motorway. If I had any doubts about the outfit I would either pull into the next service area or leave the motorway. It’s a decision only the driver can make on the day.

 

[Dustydog]

Would I be wrong in saying the 50 mph SS limit is not overly critical in so far as there must be a safety margin built in? I am not for one second advocating going beyond 50 mph , moreso thinking the SS are maybe better than we think??

 

[otherclive]

Would I be wrong in saying the 50 mph SS limit is not overly critical in so far as there must be a safety margin built in? I am not for one second advocating going beyond 50 mph , moreso thinking the SS are maybe better than we think??

They must have a reserve in the design. 50 mph is probably because they are invariably skinny and on a lot of cars are smaller od than the OEM wheels. So to try and preserve the cars balance 50 mph is deemed a maximum. I had someone tell me they are also limited to 50 miles range But he couldn’t provide any relevant information to support his comments. If I had to use one I would periodically pull over and just inspect the tread.

 

[RogerL]

Would I be wrong in saying the 50 mph SS limit is not overly critical in so far as there must be a safety margin built in? I am not for one second advocating going beyond 50 mph , moreso thinking the SS are maybe better than we think??

I'd guess that space-savers limited to 50 mph have a similar % safety margin to a V-rated tyre limited to 149 mph.

I don't think anyone would seriously consider exceeding 149 mph on a V-rated tyre just because it had a safety margin so I consider it unwise to exceed the 50 mph limit on a space-saver.

 

[RogerL]

They must have a reserve in the design. 50 mph is probably because they are invariably skinny and on a lot of cars are smaller od than the OEM wheels. So to try and preserve the cars balance 50 mph is deemed a maximum. I had someone tell me they are also limited to 50 miles range But he couldn’t provide any relevant information to support his comments. If I had to use one I would periodically pull over and just inspect the tread.

Space-savers are designed to get you to a workshop to get the original road tyre repaired or replaced - in most instances that would be well under 50 miles - they're not designed to complete a long journey.

As Dustydog and I know, space-savers aren't always skinny - on the Touareg, the space saver is nearly full width and full diameter when inflated but collapses down to a smaller diameter when uninflated - it is though inflated to a similar high pressure to the conventional skinny space-savers