Queue dazzlers

[JonnyG]

I was followed and over taken by a Freelander - Bailey combo. First problem was that he was tail gating my trailer and then when he passed he indicated right forcing me to brake or I would have been sat amongst a pile of Bailey debris on the autoroute. The driver was talking on his mobile at the time. Approaching Boulogne he came out of a service area phone in hand again, seemingly oblivious to the fact that he might consider that I and others were already on the autoroute or that he needed lights on. This morning he was at the ferry, IAM badge and old school RAC badge on the front of the car plus caravan club anniversary and a variety of other stickers suggested that the couple were not new caravanners. On the ferry I spotted the couple talking with other caravanners and overheard that they had been caravanning for nearly 40 years. Between Dover and the M26 the veteran driver - caravanner managed to break a number of laws and safety rules including no seat belt. His wife with seat reclined and feet on dash would have been intersting in a crash

There are lots of laws and rules that get broken. I don't think lighting is a real problem or issue. Better lighting up and being seen than hiding in gloom and driving oblivious of other road users or what is happening around you. Keeping a goodly distance between you and bright lights that annoy you might be the wisest move rather than moaning about them.

Institute of Advanced Motorist's badges, do they stand for 'I A M' or is it ' I AM ' ?

Sorry what on earth does this have to do with dazzling brake lights? you seem to have confused things for some reason, being seen is the job of normal driving lights and nobody has "moaned about rear driving lights being too bright! brake lights are for just that when you need to break and they are brighter so they can be seen over normal visable rear driving lights! they are not made to be used for once you are stopped! as good clean rear driving lights were invented for that purpose. frankly surely it is wiser to use the approiprate lights at the right time and not to try to justify your mis use of them or to moan, that others are rightltfully moaning about their mis use.................

 

[emmerson]

Roger.
What is the recommended gap when in a queue of stationary traffic in a city centre? I can't find anything on google to help me.

In the days when I used to work, part of my job was driver assessment, for which, of course I had to be assessed! The reccomended gap in stationary traffic was sufficient to allow you to pull out past the vehicle in front without reversing.(should he stall etc)

 

[emmerson]

Sorry RogerL, I need to read previous posts before replying!

 

[Gybe]

Sorry what on earth does this have to do with dazzling brake lights?

not to try to justify your mis use of them or to moan, that others are rightltfully moaning about their mis use.................

Mr G
There's a bit of a theme running through this section of the forum and other sections where the response is one of caravanner's who can come across as a little Holy and just point out 'rules'. I was just pointing out that there are plenty of driving 'rules' being broken by drivers towing caravans as this was actually a caravanning forum when I last checked, of course lots of other drivers also break rules but as this is a caravan forum

Why not even out the problems and equate bad driving or bad driving habits before whining?

The original post if you'd read it was about stationary cars where the drivers sat with foot on brake pedal! Not a bad habit that I have or practice. What I and others do practice when needed is alerting following drivers who come dangerously close to what we're driving or towing, self preservation and using what you have at your disposal to get a drivers attention and remain safe and accident free is not misuse.
Or is a driver now expected to get out of the car and have a gentle word with the bumper hugger chumps who stop a foot behind you and just pointing out the dangers and their bad driving practice?

 

[TheCoachman]

The way I was taught was, if you were going to be stationary for any reasonable length of time i.e. an obvious jam up then place the car in neutral and apply the handbrake.

But the same applies to indicators, why indicate in a line of traffic when there are several cars in front, wait until traffic moves then re engage your indicator within a reasonable distance from the junction.

To some folks like me who are more susceptible to light it is rather annoying especially in wet weather or in the dark. It is quite difficult not to look other than closing your eyes of course, but then you would not see the traffic starting to move !

We both drive automatic cars and brake a lot less than most cars on the roads these days yet we are still in the flow with them. Most seem to have an accelerate hard then brake attitude when driving.

 

[otherclive]

Where I would be concerned is the fact that the majority of cars are still manual and yet in a queue most cars seem to have brake lights on. Does this mean they are probably in gear riding the clutch with its attendant issues.

 

[emmerson]

Slightly off topic, but still concerning lights, Herself and I went on a ten minute journey at 4.30pm today, a grey, damp drizzly day that Wales does so well at this time of year. In that ten minutes, she counted 9 vehicles with one headlight, 17 driving on parking lights, and six with no lights at all; one of these six was a Police patrol car. Not a panda or plastic policeman, but a fully decorated patrol car.
When all around them have lights on, why do they think they didn't need them? Are they lit by divine light?
It worries me that my life is in the hands of these brain-dead morons.

 

[Surfer]

Slightly off topic, but still concerning lights, Herself and I went on a ten minute journey at 4.30pm today, a grey, damp drizzly day that Wales does so well at this time of year. In that ten minutes, she counted 9 vehicles with one headlight, 17 driving on parking lights, and six with no lights at all; one of these six was a Police patrol car. Not a panda or plastic policeman, but a fully decorated patrol car.
When all around them have lights on, why do they think they didn't need them? Are they lit by divine light?
It worries me that my life is in the hands of these brain-dead morons.

I think the law states between sunset and sun rise lights must be operational so in this scenario no one was committing an offence at 4.30pm. However common sense shoudl dictate that lights would be helpful in gloomy weather.

 

[JohnGriffiths]

As well as common sense it's also the law to use headlights when visibility is seriously reduced. The problem is quantifying the gloom. Perhaps compulsory fitting of headlights that automatically come on in low light levels would be a good thing, the ones I have seem pretty good, maybe a bit too eager to come on, but better to err on that side I suppose.

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

hi all, to be honest dazzle is not something I have thought about much as it does not seem to affect me probably just a bad habit picked up over 40 years of driving , allthough being taught by the old school I always apply h/brake and engage neutral while stood however this does not applly if I'm the last one in the queue where the brake lights are opperated to warn following traffic there is a problem hazzard lights are usually operated also,
as for using headlights and fog and flare lights this is only in poor visability situations a bright day in the rain is not poor visability neither is a clear day an hour before dusk please tell Volvo, by the way in my view side lights are for parking not driving if you need lights you need lights if you dont leave them off.

 

[RogerL]

Don't know where in Wales emmerson was referring to but sunset in Aberystwyth is 16:10 at the moment so lighting up time is 16:40 - it varies across the UK according to longitude and latitude. It's not a requirement to use headlights on lit roads.
Regardless of legalities, far too many drivers have no common sense - they seem to think that lights are soley for them to see by, totalling ignoring the huge safety benefit, to them, of being seen by other road users.
Personally, I use dipped headlights and tail-lights whenever visibility is impaired in any way - it's not a difficult mental process !!

 

[Parksy]

............ please tell Volvo, by the way in my view side lights are for parking not driving if you need lights you need lights if you dont leave them off.

Does anybody remember the Jasper Carrot sketch about how to turn off Volvo sidelights

Some drivers in the West Midlands obviously don't suffer too much from dazzle from my dipped headlights, last Wednesday driving conditions in this heavily built up urban sprawl were very poor with torrential rain, very limited visibility and very crowded roads due to the complete closure of the M5 southbound between junctions 1 and 2.
I was surprised at how often drivers waited until I was almost on top of them before pulling out in front of me from side roads, I was using dipped headlights and luckily (for them) I was travelling at less than 30mph.

 

[otherclive]

I think the Highway Code is a bit behind the times as it still requires sidelights and registration plates to be lit between sunset and sunrise with headlights 30 minutes before sunrise and 30 minutes after sunset ie 'night'. Given most cars have pitiful sidelights I reckon it's out of date. My XC 70 has dipped headlights as day running lights which can be flashed without main beam coming on. My wife thought there was a fault until I told her there was a separate night driving position that allowed main beam to stay on. There is a specific side parking light position to the switch but this gives no alert when leaving the car so could lead to a flat battery. Of course to ensure the dip beam bulbs have a good life they are down rated and pretty poor at night. So I've put Osram Night Breakers in but only get 12 months life, but they can be replaced in 20 minutes for both sides. I would not support headlights coming on automatically. What stops them coming on and leading to someone coming out in front of you because they think you flashed them out?

 

[JonnyG]

Slightly off topic, but still concerning lights, Herself and I went on a ten minute journey at 4.30pm today, a grey, damp drizzly day that Wales does so well at this time of year. In that ten minutes, she counted 9 vehicles with one headlight, 17 driving on parking lights, and six with no lights at all; one of these six was a Police patrol car. Not a panda or plastic policeman, but a fully decorated patrol car.
When all around them have lights on, why do they think they didn't need them? Are they lit by divine light?
It worries me that my life is in the hands of these brain-dead morons.

"It worries me that my life is in the hands of these brain-dead morons" !!!!!!!!!!!!

Whats with the passing of the buck here? firstly we had experience drivers complaining because of braking lights being left ON ! and now driving lights being OFF! could you actually still see the police car? right if so it was visable to you, you noticed it sooooo if you could see it, one has to assume the driver of that car could see you otherwise err he would have put his lights on, soo in your opinion he still needed his lights on,because? because why? clearly you could still see him! brain dead morans? ever thought being as they are way more advanced and skilled in driving then normal road users his judgement told him he had no need to use his lights just yet
why do you assume he or she is a brain dead moran?maybe their eyesight is vastly beter than ,say your own, and mine....!

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

oh come on Jonny be fair

, seeing as how no one exept Emmerson was there at the time it is impossible to speculate what the road and visability issues there were.
and on dull days the conditions can change within min's perhaps some were a little slow to react,
as for police cars they are hi visability thats the point. probably could spot one in pitch back on a country lane when it parked up with no lights on? from 2miles away
yes some peoples eye sight is better than others but surely the question is, not if you can see them but can they see you.
edit.
just had a thought, what you drive may have a bearing on this a red or dayglow yellow car would be easier to see than a black one at night and in fog a grey or white one could be invisable.

 

[JonnyG]

I think you have in advertently, almost agreed with me.. ha ha ha.. Police vehicles are indeed highly visable indeed more so than most so, i kinda think calling them morons is hardly fair too...which is what i was refering to...

 

[joeby]

brake lights dont seem to bother me , what does annoy me is people who park the wrong way around at night then come out and start there car up put the lights on, and blinding all the oncoming traffic , its a legal requirement to park with the flow of the traffic at night , back in the 70s i got a ticket for it , but when i draw up to a stationary vehicle i leave enough space so i can see the road behind the vehicle , i disengage gear and put the handbrake on , the amount of people you see riding back and forth slipping the clutch , are these the people that complain that there clutch wore out after 25000 miles , my car has over 65000 miles with the same clutch , and no sign of any slipping

 

[emmerson]

Slightly off topic, but still concerning lights, Herself and I went on a ten minute journey at 4.30pm today, a grey, damp drizzly day that Wales does so well at this time of year. In that ten minutes, she counted 9 vehicles with one headlight, 17 driving on parking lights, and six with no lights at all; one of these six was a Police patrol car. Not a panda or plastic policeman, but a fully decorated patrol car.
When all around them have lights on, why do they think they didn't need them? Are they lit by divine light?
It worries me that my life is in the hands of these brain-dead morons.

"It worries me that my life is in the hands of these brain-dead morons" !!!!!!!!!!!!

Whats with the passing of the buck here? firstly we had experience drivers complaining because of braking lights being left ON ! and now driving lights being OFF! could you actually still see the police car? right if so it was visable to you, you noticed it sooooo if you could see it, one has to assume the driver of that car could see you otherwise err he would have put his lights on, soo in your opinion he still needed his lights on,because? because why? clearly you could still see him! brain dead morans? ever thought being as they are way more advanced and skilled in driving then normal road users his judgement told him he had no need to use his lights just yet
why do you assume he or she is a brain dead moran?maybe their eyesight is vastly beter than ,say your own, and mine....!

Johnny, I've only just picked up on your rerply to my post, so sorry for the delay in replying.
I was not solely referring to the police driver as "brain dead moron", but to all of the drivers concerned.
A car showing dipped headlights is visible much earlier than one without lights, particularly if all around him have lights on.
As has been said on here, lights are not only for seeing with, they are for being seen,which is why it now frowned upon/illegal to drive without lights in some European counties..
I stand by what I said: people driving without using dipped headlights, in poor visibility, regardless of time of day, are brain dead morons!
BTW, I believe there might be a reason why so many modern cars drive without lights in darkness; apparently some new cars light up the dashboard when the ignition is switched on, therefore fooling the driver into thinking his lights are on.Also, if a car has day running lights on the front, it does not always mean that there are lights on the back.

 

[JonnyG]

hey emmerson, this is one of those topics that is always going to be full of questionable answers.you see after i first read this topic it drew my attention and so i was actually noting what i saw. I noted where m/ways which still had night time lights working that when these lights turned off, in the first instance i thought wow thats a bit soon in my opinion but then within a minute or two i thought ok might be my eyes needed a few moments to adjust and as we are all slightly different then maybe some peoples eyes adjust better than others.another thing is you use your lights to see others thats the fundimental rule, you to see others so really no one should be
reliying on other road users.tweet everybody as a fool...
given that as we get older, we older ones maywell "think" its time to but on our lights, youngar people maywell think otherwise, and who is to say they are wrong? you,or i with our older vision?
Its true that daylight lights are a legal requirement in some places [ stupid law that maywell be repelled in the future] you see after 2 or so decades of everybody saying having your lights on is helping you to be seen,even in goodlight its now becoming apparentant it acually courses accidents too! especially where motorcyclists are concerned, people are complaining the lights make distance judgement a problem espeically on sunny days..........
as for the frowned upon statement! Italy also passed this silly daylight law a few years ago, and i can assure you it is that law that is frowned upon and generally ignored even by the highway police and it seems many others are doing it too....

 

[emmerson]

Hi Johnny. As you are probably aware, daytime lights were first seen in 1967(?) in Sweden, after the switch from RHD to LHD, and so were an obvious safety feature, which points up what I said: the lights meant that your car was seen that couple of seconds quicker, bearing in mind that it was probably coming at you on the "wrong" side of the road!!
I'm not 100% convinced about full-time DRLs, but am absolutely certain that dipped headlights should be used in poor conditions. A dark coloured car in grey murk, on a grey road without lights cannot be seen as quickly as the same car showing dipped lights, no matter how old or young the driver is.
In a similar vein, I can safely and legally tow my caravan with my Range Rover without extension mirrors, as the car is wide enough to give me the legally required vision.However, by using towing mirrors, I get perhaps a one or two second earlier view of traffic behind. That is the point I'm trying to make re headlights.That second or so might just save a life, for the sake of pressing a tiny switch.

And that life might just be mine!
Btw, it wasn't you driving a black Vectra (I think) this afternoon around 5.00pm near Pontypool, with no lights at all, whilst you were on the phone?
Happy (and safe) new year!

 

[emmerson]

Just as a rider to all this, why do emergency vehicles having lots of lights?

 

[RogerL]

In a similar vein, I can safely and legally tow my caravan with my Range Rover without extension mirrors, as the car is wide enough to give me the legally required vision.However, by using towing mirrors, I get perhaps a one or two second earlier view of traffic behind.

If you can see more with towing mirrors than without, it wouldn't be difficult in a court of law to show that the vision without towing mirrors isn't adequate.
Back to DRLs - they've only been considered necessary because too few drivers would actually switch on their dipped headlights in poor visibility - now we have the stupid situation that DRLs are so bright that people complain.

 

[emmerson]

In a similar vein, I can safely and legally tow my caravan with my Range Rover without extension mirrors, as the car is wide enough to give me the legally required vision.However, by using towing mirrors, I get perhaps a one or two second earlier view of traffic behind.

If you can see more with towing mirrors than without, it wouldn't be difficult in a court of law to show that the vision without towing mirrors isn't adequate.
Back to DRLs - they've only been considered necessary because too few drivers would actually switch on their dipped headlights in poor visibility - now we have the stupid situation that DRLs are so bright that people complain.

Bit of a daft argument re mirrors, there Roger. Of course I can see more in extention mirrors, they're six inches wider than the standard ones! But the standard ones give "adequate" vision, probably already more than the law requires, but the extentions make it even safer, as is the case with dipped headlights.

 

[Lutz]

I somehow doubt whether the standard mirrors provide "adequate" vision down the side of the caravan unless you'vegot a very wide car or a very narrow caravan.

 

[JonnyG]

err, emergency vehicles have lots of "Flashing lights" and they are also coloured differently too.surely you were not using this as some sort of justification to daylight driving lights? Already the newer type of brighter lights are being critisised, for their blinding light that has motorcyclist, cyclist and indeed backing from motoring organisation complaining that they blind someone coming the opposite way, and or leading them to not being able to see nearby cyclists motorcyclists and indeed pedestrians in daylight conditions..
alas now this is moving away from what i originally thought was a valid piont, when does one use lights? when is it dusk? to daylight driving lights which i dont agree with and it seems The EU has dismissed a valid observation by the Austrians that suggested daylight driving lights actually caused more incidents, contray to what the EU wants us to believe....
Er me driving a vectra you say emmerson? with no lights on after dusk and on the phone too! doubt it, err unless i was also watching a tv!