Refund of caravan purchase

[nickmessitis]

Hello

We bought a new swift caravan on 5th April, which has had ongoing problems with the tracker device installed on the caravan. The tracker is required for insurance purposes other wise swift insurance will invalidate the insurance.

We have it backwards and forwards to the dealership and it is one connection problem after another. We also noticed after buying the van that the microwave door is scratched.

As it less than 30 days since we bought the caravan can we ask for a refund. I am sick of having to take backwards and forwards to the dealership

 

[Mr Plodd]

I think you will have a huge struggle rejecting that caravan for such minor issues. Don't forget that if you are successful any replacement will almost certainly have risen in price, and you might have a long wait for delivery

 

[Buckman]

Hello

We bought a new swift caravan on 5th April, which has had ongoing problems with the tracker device installed on the caravan. The tracker is required for insurance purposes other wise swift insurance will invalidate the insurance.

We have it backwards and forwards to the dealership and it is one connection problem after another. We also noticed after buying the van that the microwave door is scratched.

As it less than 30 days since we bought the caravan can we ask for a refund. I am sick of having to take backwards and forwards to the dealership

You are entitled to ask for a refund, but you would need to put it in writing as soon as possible. If bought using finance, you need to notify the finance company as soon as possible as technically they supplied the caravan.

 

[Buckman]

I think you will have a huge struggle rejecting that caravan for such minor issues. Don't forget that if you are successful any replacement will almost certainly have risen in price, and you might have a long wait for delivery

However that may be just enough for the dealer to get mind out of neutral and resolve the issue.

 

[Dustydog]

I think you will have a huge struggle rejecting that caravan for such minor issues. Don't forget that if you are successful any replacement will almost certainly have risen in price, and you might have a long wait for delivery

I see it differently in the context of the CRA 2015.
Under the CRA 2015, a consumer has a legal right to reject goods that are faulty (i.e., not of satisfactory quality, unfit for purpose or not as described) and obtain a full refund.
A failed security Tracker system is an integral component of the caravan and ironically is a prime mover in maintaining Swift’s own Insurance cover. Without it the OP ‘s caravan is not insured! It is not clear what has been said to the dealer.
It is less than 30 days since collection so to the letter of the Act I believe he can request a full refund. That will put the cat among the pigeons!
At the very least the Dealer / Swift Insurance must be made to cover the caravan for any Insured contingency that would be covered had it not been for the failure of the Tracker.

 

[Buckman]

I would like to take the opportunity to point out that in this case the 30 day time limit stopped when the issue was first reported. It is not clear whether there is more than one issue with the caravan? Hopefully it is not "buyer's remorse"?

I suspect that the alarm fault was reported within the first few days of the first week of ownership week so even better chance of rejecting for a full refund as it is only the 15th now, but as pointed out by Mr Plod, do they want to wait another couple of months for a replacement.

Does the Swift have the Sargent alarm system? From what i have read they are very helpful at resolving issues.

 

[otherclive]

I’m amazed that a dealership cannot get Tracker working, after all it’s not as if it’s a new introduction to the market place. Wonder if they have taken the opportunity to speak to Tracker. The OP has given them more than one go to sort it. But the caravans insurance status needs to be confirmed given Tracker isn’t working.

PS is it Tracker or is that being used in the generic sense to describe the system. Either way the dealership should show more determination to sort it out.

 

[nickmessitis]

I would like to take the opportunity to point out that in this case the 30 day time limit stopped when the issue was first reported. It is not clear whether there is more than one issue with the caravan? Hopefully it is not "buyer's remorse"?

I suspect that the alarm fault was reported within the first few days of the first week of ownership week so even better chance of rejecting for a full refund as it is only the 15th now, but as pointed out by Mr Plod, do they want to wait another couple of months for a replacement.

Does the Swift have the Sargent alarm system? From what i have read they are very helpful at resolving issues.

Hi thankyou for your feedback. We first looked at a new swift challenger at the back end of march this year. We liked it so we put a deposit down of £2500. A couple of days later we went back to look at the caravan which we thought was the demo model as leisure world said they had another factory fresh on site. It turned out they didn't have a factory fresh model and the caravan we saw was a demo. It turned out this caravan had quite a few faults so we rejected it and said we want a factor fresh that hadn't had footfall.

The dealership who are very nice, did get a new model sent up from York to Newcastle.


When it arrived we went to look at it on 2nd April. It looked ok so we paid the rest of the £29000.

When we went to pick it up on the 5th April we noticed a dent on the metal wall panel behind the sink. But by that time we had paid for the caravan in full, so the sales lady who is very nice, said she would get the panel replaced under warranty which I was ok with.

Fast forward to Thursday 10th April. I received emails telling me that the tracker had been set up , so I logged into the app on the night time but noticed it said the tracker was disarmed.

I was quite alarmed at this ( excuse the pun) and rang Sargent Tracker the next day who said it needs to be checked immediately as there was a wiring issue. I also rang my insurance company who said they would not provide insurance as the tracker was not working. In the end they spoke to the underwriters who agreed to give me a couple of weeks to get it fixed
We took the caravan back to the dealership on Friday 12th April. They eventually fixed the issue and I could see the van was armed.

We couldn't take the caravan away though as the lights weren't working when we booked it up to the car. We had to leave it, the technican rang us after 30 mins and said he had found the problem, he must have dislodged one of the electric blocks, so he put it right. These things happen and I wouldn't criticise the lad.

When we returned on Saturday 13th April I connected the caravan up and everything looked ok, but the ATC wouldn't work when it had previously been ok when we towed the caravan on the Friday. It turned out that the pin no 9 wasn't working so we took the car to a tow bar specialist 20 miles away, the car had a blown fuse.


We returned back to the dealership took the caravan everything ok. Happy days.

Later on Saturday evening I received an email from swift command centre telling me the leisure battery was flat and that it was important from an insurance perspective to have it fixed.

The thing is I physically checked the leisure battery and it was reading 13.6 volts so I rang Sargent and they said its a wiring issue you need to get it checked for insurance purposes. So I find myself yet again having to take it back

 

[woodsieboy]

Just reject the thing and get your money back before something else goes wrong

 

[nickmessitis]

I’m amazed that a dealership cannot get Tracker working, after all it’s not as if it’s a new introduction to the market place. Wonder if they have taken the opportunity to speak to Tracker. The OP has given them more than one go to sort it. But the caravans insurance status needs to be confirmed given Tracker isn’t working.

PS is it Tracker or is that being used in the generic sense to describe the system. Either way the dealership should show more determination to sort it out.

It's a Sargent tracker

 

[otherclive]

It's a Sargent tracker

Still amazed the dealer cannot resolve it. But if the manufacturer has wired the caravan incorrectly it could be a devil of a job to sort it.

Good luck.

 

[Jcloughie]

I would agree with reject, but make sure everything is done in writing.

I feel that the insurance should legally still apply except where it could be shown that any loss is attributable to the tracker not working.

John

 

[Dustydog]

I would agree with reject, but make sure everything is done in writing.

I feel that the insurance should legally still apply except where it could be shown that any loss is attributable to the tracker not working.

John

Sadly John a condition such as the alarm one is usually precedent to policy liability. No alarm, no claim irrespective of the type of loss. Swift however really need to step up to the plate and ensure the policy cover is not prejudiced whilst the problems are either fully resolved or the caravan returned for a refund.

 

[Jcloughie]

Sadly John a condition such as the alarm one is usually precedent to policy liability. No alarm, no claim irrespective of the type of loss. Swift however really need to step up to the plate and ensure the policy cover is not prejudiced whilst the problems are either fully resolved or the caravan returned for a refund.

I thought it was just the tracker not working. Two separate items.

John

 

[ProfJohnL]

Under the Consumer Rights Act, the seller has one opportunity to effect a repair, which in this case has occurred and has failed to correct the problem, which now means the customer should have an automatic right to reject the goods and to receive a full refund.

I strongly advise Nick to immediately write/email to the seller/dealership/ finance house (not the manufacturer) about the problem, and of his intention to consider the problems in the light of his statutory rights under the Consumer Rights Act with a view to reject the caravan becasue of the repeated problems and the ineffective first and only repairs the CRA allows

Nick should also read up about the CRA and how to use it.

I recommended you read

Which? Consumer Rights - Which?

Know your consumer rights. Use our guides to get simple solutions to everyday problems from shopping, deliveries and scams to energy, broadband and tradespeople disputes.

www.which.co.uk

 

[Dustydog]

I thought it was just the tracker not working. Two separate items.

John

Agreed but it doesn’t change anything as the Tracker too is a policy condition

 

[Jcloughie]

Agreed but it doesn’t change anything as the Tracker too is a policy condition

I don’t think so, if a van is stolen without a declared tracker then I imagine the insurance will be void.

But if it is broken into or vandalised, then clearly the tracker would have been of no use. In this case, the insurance would stand. I believe.

John

 

[Dustydog]

I don’t think so, if a van is stolen without a declared tracker then I imagine the insurance will be void.

But if it is broken into or vandalised, then clearly the tracker would have been of no use. In this case, the insurance would stand. I believe.

John

I assure you this is not the case.
A breach of a condition precedent in an insurance contract may allow insurers to avoid paying out under a claim regardless of whether they have suffered any prejudice as a result of the breach.
In insurance Law this has been the case since time immemorial. I have seen total loss fire claims repudiated because the theft alarm was inoperative. If you have the time check out Financial Ombudsman Service. Lots of claims successfully repudiated on their web site. I will say however the final arbiter is the insurer .

 

[nickmessitis]

thankyou to all you good people that replied. I practically had an argument with swift supersure. Basically I informed them that the tracker was shown as being disarmed. I only found this out as I logged into the swift app and looked at the history, I didn't have a clue about this at all. The history showed the caravan had been disarmed from the day i bought it on 5th April. I knew nothing about this and no one at the dealership advised me about it.
I stumbled across it.

When I saw one of the technicians at the dealership he said it should have been picked up on PDI.

 

[nickmessitis]

I think insurance companies will do anything to wriggle out of paying compensation for losses, damages. They look for reasons not to pay.
My wife took ill with COVID just before we were due to go abroad. COVID is no longer viewed as serious, but saying that the GP didn't want my wife anywhere near the surgery and because they couldn't see her they were reluctant to say whether or not she was fit to travel.
We did get away in the end, but she was really poorly but still flew.

 

[otherclive]

thankyou to all you good people that replied. I practically had an argument with swift supersure. Basically I informed them that the tracker was shown as being disarmed. I only found this out as I logged into the swift app and looked at the history, I didn't have a clue about this at all. The history showed the caravan had been disarmed from the day i bought it on 5th April. I knew nothing about this and no one at the dealership advised me about it.
I stumbled across it.

When I saw one of the technicians at the dealership he said it should have been picked up on PDI.

Glad the tracker ha s been sorted. It’s still surprising that given the problems with the tracker your dealership’s investigations did not diagnose it. Also I assume the PDI checklist was ticked showing the tracker had been rearmed. 🤔

 

[nickmessitis]

Hi no it's still not sorted as the tracker shows the leisure battery as not charging due to more wiring problems, i received an email from swift command telling me to check the battery as it could affect the insurance.i have to yet again take the caravan in, which is why
I am going to ask for a refund. Basically there's nothing wrong with the battery it's fully charged, but I am fed up with having to take the caravan to and fro. There's also scratches on the microwave door which we didn't see until we got the caravan home on the 5th April. There's a decorative metal wall panel in the kitchen behind the sink in the kitchen. The panel has a large dent in it, which we noticed when we went to pick the caravan up. The front locker mechanism came apart due to a dodgy washer on the assembly. That's why we are seeking a refund.

On top of that the very first caravan we went to see had many faults, so we rejected that one and we're told they would send another factory fresh caravan, so this is the second caravan.

It's been a catalogue of issues. You couldn't make it up. We haven't even been able to use the caravan because of the tracker issued.

 

[Buckman]

Hi no it's still not sorted as the tracker shows the leisure battery as not charging due to more wiring problems, i received an email from swift command telling me to check the battery as it could affect the insurance.i have to yet again take the caravan in, which is why
I am going to ask for a refund. Basically there's nothing wrong with the battery it's fully charged, but I am fed up with having to take the caravan to and fro. There's also scratches on the microwave door which we didn't see until we got the caravan home on the 5th April. There's a decorative metal wall panel in the kitchen behind the sink in the kitchen. The panel has a large dent in it, which we noticed when we went to pick the caravan up. The front locker mechanism came apart due to a dodgy washer on the assembly. That's why we are seeking a refund.

On top of that the very first caravan we went to see had many faults, so we rejected that one and we're told they would send another factory fresh caravan, so this is the second caravan.

It's been a catalogue of issues. You couldn't make it up. We haven't even been able to use the caravan because of the tracker issued.

As you are within the first thirty days there is no need to give the dealer even one chance at a repair before rejecting the caravan. Make sure you do everything in writing.

 

[otherclive]

Hi no it's still not sorted as the tracker shows the leisure battery as not charging due to more wiring problems, i received an email from swift command telling me to check the battery as it could affect the insurance.i have to yet again take the caravan in, which is why
I am going to ask for a refund. Basically there's nothing wrong with the battery it's fully charged, but I am fed up with having to take the caravan to and fro. There's also scratches on the microwave door which we didn't see until we got the caravan home on the 5th April. There's a decorative metal wall panel in the kitchen behind the sink in the kitchen. The panel has a large dent in it, which we noticed when we went to pick the caravan up. The front locker mechanism came apart due to a dodgy washer on the assembly. That's why we are seeking a refund.

On top of that the very first caravan we went to see had many faults, so we rejected that one and we're told they would send another factory fresh caravan, so this is the second caravan.

It's been a catalogue of issues. You couldn't make it up. We haven't even been able to use the caravan because of the tracker issued.

I’d agree with your decision, you have shown more than enough patience in trying to get the problems resolved. Good luck.

 

[Jcloughie]

I assure you this is not the case.
A breach of a condition precedent in an insurance contract may allow insurers to avoid paying out under a claim regardless of whether they have suffered any prejudice as a result of the breach.
In insurance Law this has been the case since time immemorial. I have seen total loss fire claims repudiated because the theft alarm was inoperative. If you have the time check out Financial Ombudsman Service. Lots of claims successfully repudiated on their web site. I will say however the final arbiter is the insurer .

There are two circumstances.

Yes the insurance company can void the policy if they wish, this would have to be from the start date.

However, if the policy was allowed to run, voiding in retrospect would be unfair. Unless one of the following circumstances applied.

Which of the following will make an insurance contract voidable?

The contract becomes voidable in the occurrence of fraud, coercion, or misrepresentation, subject to the discretion of the party against whom these actions were directed.


John