Removing the jock

[Colinn]

In an effort to shed van noseweight, I wondered about unclamping my jockey wheel (once hitched up) and carrying it in the car. Can anyone advise me if this an acceptable practice? Secondly, I sometimes see caravans on site/in storage without a jockey wheel. Is this also an acceptable practice, ie, are the front steadies sufficient support for a van?

 

[Icemaker]

I dont know of any legal reason why the jocky wheel can not be removed whilst towing the van but it would give problems if you had to remove the van from the towing vehicle in an emergency as you would have to drop the van on to its nose. on storage sites people remove the jockey wheel so that it does not get stolen which apparently is quite a big problem but i must admit i have seen people also remove them on site and rely on the steadys for suport, i have always believed that the steady's are exactely what they are called and are to be used for steadying the van not holding its weight and that of the occupants so to remove the jockey wheel on site whilst the van is in use is not the correct way to do it.

 

[WatsonJohnG]

I can't see any problem with removing the jockey wheel on tow or on site other than if a quick unhitch is needed in an emergency.

I always remove mine when boarding a ferry as I have met several people who have had them damaged and I have had the stabiliser bracket pushed back on one occasion.

On site I often remove it and use the clamp for my TV pole.

The noseweight should be no more than 100kg and that is going to be weight taken by the jockey wheel without the steadies.

As the van could weigh 1500 kg or more and as the steadies are taking some of the load anyway the jockey is not really doing much on site.If it is then the front steadies would be off the ground.

Most of the weight is taken by the wheels.

On the other hand it won't make big difference to noseweight

 

[Colinn]

I can't see any problem with removing the jockey wheel on tow or on site other than if a quick unhitch is needed in an emergency.

I always remove mine when boarding a ferry as I have met several people who have had them damaged and I have had the stabiliser bracket pushed back on one occasion.

On site I often remove it and use the clamp for my TV pole.

The noseweight should be no more than 100kg and that is going to be weight taken by the jockey wheel without the steadies.

As the van could weigh 1500 kg or more and as the steadies are taking some of the load anyway the jockey is not really doing much on site.If it is then the front steadies would be off the ground.

Most of the weight is taken by the wheels.

On the other hand it won't make big difference to noseweight

my unladen noseweight is high - and every little helps!! Everything else has to come out of the front locker too!!

 

[WatsonJohnG]

my unladen noseweight is high - and every little helps!! Everything else has to come out of the front locker too!!

You obviously have to do what you can in the circumstances .

Have you thought of putting the better half's handbag in the rear of the caravan?

 

[Colinn]

You obviously have to do what you can in the circumstances .

Have you thought of putting the better half's handbag in the rear of the caravan?

now you're being ridiculous, the floor is nowhere near strong enough...!!!

 

[mcghee]

John. I'd like to say your comment about the jockey wheel not really doing much on site isn't strictly true. As you know the 'van is always levelled using the jockey wheel and the corner steadies really only stabilise the 'van. If you have an 80kilo noseweight then you have four adults seated in the front lounge of your 'van you may actually have a weight in the front of your 'van of roughly 400kilos. Some of this is carried by the wheels but a lot is carried by the jockey wheel, or the floor of the 'van if you remove the jockey. Removing it for travelling is ok, but for the 4-5kilos it will save I wouldn't bother too much, unless you really really need to save 5kilos.

 

[WatsonJohnG]

Hi Craig what you say makes a lot of sense but as this topic has come up many times I have counted "ups" and "downs" on several rallies and it works out about even.

So you see we are both average which for me is a definite improvement

regards

 

[mcghee]

All these years my wifes been telling me I'm the best, and now you come along and burst the bubble by telling me I'm average.

 

[Lutz]

Craig's argument is OK for when all 4 adults are in the front of the van but what about when they're all in the back? 75kg noseweight is not going to help much to counterbalance 4x80kg. There's no jockey wheel at the back so the rear steadies have to take nearly all the load. If the rear ones can, so can the fronts as they are usually of the same design.

 

[Colinn]

Thanks for all your reasoned arguments, which as usual throws lots of light on the pros and cons of things. I think I will experiment with removing the jockey wheel while towing as I am desperate to lose kilos on the front to lessen the need to pile up the back, if you see what I mean. Those 5 kilos will bring me within touching distance of achieving 75kgs!

 

[WatsonJohnG]

Colin I can understand why you don't want to load up the back of the caravan but it may be worth a try if you don't over do it.

My last caravan was manufactured with the battery at the extreme rear offside corner and at 4st 3lb it made a difference to the noseweight !!!

Many caravans have rear kitchens with cookers and fridges fitted and I'm not convinced that in the past weight distribution has been given priority over placing units inside the van to look nice.

We had friends with an Award that was so tail heavy that it needed two Scott stabilisers and was still unstable above 50 mph.

I'm just trying to make the point that we are told not to put weight at the back but manufacturers haven't always practiced what they preach.

Certainly making use of underbed storage on fixed bed caravans can put a lot of weight at the rear even if you put bulky lighter items there.

If you have so much weight on the front maybe the manufacturer was allowing for loading more weight rearwards in wardrobes etc

Just a thought

Another thought is how accurate is yout nose weight gauge.

I've just changed mine for a new one and the nose weight is 25kg lighter overnight !!

 

[Lutz]

If noseweight gauges are that inaccurate, one might just as well forget them. With a bit of practice, one can estimate noseweight by hand to within about

 

[WatsonJohnG]

I think that like other things nose weight gauges wear out over the years .

 

[Colinn]

Thanks John. Everything you say is logical and I have had this argument with myself! For example, my heavy battery compartment, right at the front, could easily have been constructed right at the back! Equally, the oven could also have been at the back if it was an end kitchen. But I have read a lot of comments on this forum about stability problems if you set up a pendulum effect. All very confusing!! I will indeed be placing weight, awning etc, behind the axle and I'll just have to see how it goes because I am really fearful of exceeding that noseweight limit.

I am sure my kitchen scales weighing method is accurate - I test them against my own weight every time, and ensure everything is level and at hitchheight.

 

[Icemaker]

Colin, what are you towing ?, i ask as you have stated that you need your hitch to weigh 75 kg's which is about average. we tow a ace twin axle van and easily get 85 kgs nose weight with two 7 kg gas bottles both toilet fluids, two pumps, and the extra tv aerial in the front locker. i would easily get to 75 kg by removing just the fluids and pumps, my battery is also right at the front of the van which does seem a bit silly really it should be over the wheels due to its weight. I know single axles can be a bit harder to balance but i would not have thought any van was so hard to get down to 75kg's.

As a rule i put both my (empty) aqua rolls and my wastemaster in the rear bathroom and the awning goes right over the axle and we balance a perfect 85kg.

 

[Colinn]

Colin, what are you towing ?, i ask as you have stated that you need your hitch to weigh 75 kg's which is about average. we tow a ace twin axle van and easily get 85 kgs nose weight with two 7 kg gas bottles both toilet fluids, two pumps, and the extra tv aerial in the front locker. i would easily get to 75 kg by removing just the fluids and pumps, my battery is also right at the front of the van which does seem a bit silly really it should be over the wheels due to its weight. I know single axles can be a bit harder to balance but i would not have thought any van was so hard to get down to 75kg's.

As a rule i put both my (empty) aqua rolls and my wastemaster in the rear bathroom and the awning goes right over the axle and we balance a perfect 85kg.

Apologies for delay, away for the weekend...it's a Buccaneer Elan 2000, lovely caravan but quite substantial at 1290 kgs. With a completely empty frontlocker, and hardly anything else forward of the axle, the noseweight is just under 120Kgs! I cd solve it a stroke by removing 20kgs of 110 AH leisure battery (front mounted) and carrying the gas bottle at the back, but I'm not sure where else is advisable to carry the battery. As we always use hook-ups, perhaps I cd get a very cheap, lighter battery, but I haven't explored that. Anyway, next weekend, we hit the road, and will be experimenting with solutions!!!

 

[MikeA]

Sorry, rather late for adding to this topic, but I have an interest as we need to remove our jockey wheel because the rear bike carrier hanging on the spare wheel of our 4x4 fouls it.

So we do remove the jockey wheel, but we also travel extensively on the continent and I was a little disconcerted on reading a small item in one of the caravan magazines (sorry can't remember which) last year which mentioned that it has just become illegal to remove the jockey wheel whilst travelling in Germany. We are planning another trip to Germany this summer and haven't quite decided what to do.

 

[Lutz]

The police in Germany have got better things to do than to check whether anyone has removed the jockey wheel or not. Theoretically, and in a very roundabout sort of way, it is true that it is illegal because it constitutes a technical change to a vehicle.

Caravans in Germany are registered in their own right and treated in the same way as any other vehicle. As such, any technical change, and that includes adding or taking off a component which can in any way affect usage on the road, is a change to the type approved condition which needs to be entered into the vehicle log book. Otherwise, if the vehicle looses homologation and consequently also insurance coverage. Without insurance, it would be illegal to use on the road.

On the other hand, I wouldn't take it quite as seriously. Should you be stopped by the police, which is unlikely anyway unless there is other reason to do so, I am sure they would accept your explanation, especially as a tourist. My experience is that the German police are not unreasonable.

 

[MikeA]

I'm sure you are right Lutz. Have not had direct dealings with the German police on the travels (though I do recall they seem to be more in evidence on the autobahns than their UK colleagues are here) but I am sure they have bigger fish to fry.