Renault Laguna of Ford Focus for towing 1300kg Caravan.

[David_374235794]

I am thinking about purchasing a 1998 Eldis Typhoon GTX MTPLW 1300KG. I have two cars in the family - a 1999 Renault Laguna RT Sport DTI , kerb weight 1310 Kg and a 2006 Ford Focus Zetec 1.8 TDCI, Kerb weight 1376kg.

I have owned an Ace Marauder 430S of Circa 1985 vintage, 5 Berth. The Renault Seemed fine towing this.

The question is, will either of my card be able to tow the Eldis safely and without a struggle given that the Renault is a 99% match and the Ford a 95% match fot towing weight.

Should I look for another caravan. There seems to be very few second hand 4 berth caravans under the 1300 kg weigh and under 17 ft.

The other option is of course to trade the Renault in for something a bit bigger and heavier ..

 

[cliff_5040076]

David

You've answered your own question, buy a car that will tow your van with a greater margin of safety.

Neither of your present vehicles is ideal and if you get into a snake you will be over on your side.

 

[Lutz]

I wouldn't see the picture as bleak as Cliff. While perhaps not ideal, I'd certainly consider the Focus to be quite reasonable and adequate for your purpose.

 

[cliff_5040076]

Having had a snake to end all snakes in Holland last year, I have developed the mentality that the lower the ratio between towcar and van the better.

I was towing a 1300kg van with my car weighing 1682kg kerbweight when I did a silly thing,tried to overtake a large hgv on a blind bend on a 2 lane dual carriage way. As we rounded the bend there appeared a tunnel and just before we entered the tunnel the van started to sway.

When I say sway it was more like a dance and the rear of the car felt like it was being lifted off its suspension.

I resisted the urge to apply the brakes and eventually slowed and pulled over. This was with a towing ratio of around 70%.

Had I had the sort of match that some people seem happy to tow at( 95% or even 99%) then I know that the car and van would be over on its side.

You can call me over cautious but I value my family and I don't intend for us to end up spread all over the road.

Every year you can see the results of people towing vans with vehicles not up to the job. Travel down the M5 in summer and you can see the remains strewn across the carriageways.

I don't intend to join the "it'll never happen to me " brigade.

 

[Lutz]

I do appreciate that a heavier towcar can only be beneficial to safety but it's not the only factor which plays an important role. Besides, comparing kerbweight of the car with the fully laden weight of the caravan represents an extreme condition that is not normally encountered in practice. I suspect that even when you had your scary experience the actual weight ratio was a good deal more favourable than the 70% that you mention. Weight ratios need to be put into perspective with other contributing factors. There is therefore little point in religiously staying below 85% as that alone does not guarantee a stable outfit. There is no hard and fast threshold value where everything below is safe and everything above automatically unsafe. It is more a sliding scale. However, I would certainly advise not going over 100% with a caravan although possibly acceptable for other types of trailer.

 

[Lol1]

Having had a snake to end all snakes in Holland last year, I have developed the mentality that the lower the ratio between towcar and van the better.

I was towing a 1300kg van with my car weighing 1682kg kerbweight when I did a silly thing,tried to overtake a large hgv on a blind bend on a 2 lane dual carriage way. As we rounded the bend there appeared a tunnel and just before we entered the tunnel the van started to sway.

When I say sway it was more like a dance and the rear of the car felt like it was being lifted off its suspension.

I resisted the urge to apply the brakes and eventually slowed and pulled over. This was with a towing ratio of around 70%.

Had I had the sort of match that some people seem happy to tow at( 95% or even 99%) then I know that the car and van would be over on its side.

You can call me over cautious but I value my family and I don't intend for us to end up spread all over the road.

Every year you can see the results of people towing vans with vehicles not up to the job. Travel down the M5 in summer and you can see the remains strewn across the carriageways.

I don't intend to join the "it'll never happen to me " brigade.

Couldn't agree more, Cliff. Why take the risk, better to be safe than sorry, It's not just you and your family at risk out on the road, the least anyone can do is be prepared and minimalise the risk.

 

[David_374235794]

Gents,

I certaily seemed to have sparked a decent discussion here. I have reviewed the replies and have made a descsion on teh way forward. I value my family and there are other road users to consider. So I am looking for a lighter caravan or a better matched tow car.

Thanks to all who gave their opinion.

 

[Lutz]

In view of the fact that Cliff already had an unnerving experience at 70%, does that mean people will start suggesting that 60% should be a goal to aim for? Surely not. After all, many have towed for years between 90 and 100% without endangering their own or anyone else's lives. A high kerbweight can offset adverse conditions or circumstances elsewhere but also the opposite holds true.

 

[cliff_5040076]

Lutz

I have towed caravans for the last 20 years and not once have I had any problem with stability. Until last year.

I made a simple mistake, overtaking in the wrong place when I should have waited till I could see the road ahead.

The point I was trying to make is that having a larger weight differential between the car and van means that when you do something silly the chance of having a good outcome are increased. Everyone makes mistakes at some point and its nice to have an edge when you do.

It just so happens that the ratio for my car and van is 70% and I would not advocate that everyone should follow suit.

In my case I feel I made a very good choice.

 

[Lutz]

I am not criticising your decision, Cliff. Everyone should drive an outfit that they feel safe with and capable of handling. All I was trying to get over was that blanket statements like "only an outfit under 85% is a safe outfit" is a load of nonsense and I say that despite, or perhaps because, I also experienced a severe snake once where the caravan took up almost two lanes of traffic (fortunately I was able to catch it again).

 

[STEVE_5041381]

Agree with Lutz here on that - it seems people with large vehicles seem to make these comments. Why overtake on a bend

when you must of have signs of approaching a tunnel ? methinks

this was a case of "driver error" rather than a mismatched outfit.

 

[cliff_5040076]

Agree with Lutz here on that - it seems people with large vehicles seem to make these comments. Why overtake on a bend

when you must of have signs of approaching a tunnel ? methinks

this was a case of "driver error" rather than a mismatched outfit.

Steve

I take it by your sarcastic comment that you are not well endowed in the tow car department.

If you bothered to read the post correctly you will see that I admit to making a mistake by overtaking when I did so your comments are really pointless.

Then again,after making this error, I'm still here to tell the tale.

Perhaps if I'd been in "tiny tow car" land, I may not have been!

 

[Lol1]

Nail on the head there Steve. Driver error is just one of the causes of these accidents. The only snake I have had, was down to the same reason, my error. It happens, no one's perfect. Then there are the events you have little or no control over, sudden gusts of wind, overtaking car transporters, being overtaken by large vehicles, wet roads, or all of the above. None of which the driver can do anything about. How about the guy that cuts you up forcing you to swerve, the biker that pulls out in front of you where emergency braking is called for. The list is nigh on endless, you could of course tow at 100% all your life and never have an accident/incident but you will have been very lucky for that to happen. Some people can't have a heavier tow car, for whatever reason, that too happens, but if you could then you should, you might find it's money well spent.

 

[Val & Frank]

Gentlemen,

IMHO It's a balance of what you have, and what you do with it.!!!. Big Car medium van good balance

Smaller Car medium van (in some cases a good balance )

Care with how you drive both, is what really makes the balance work.

Please don't fall out !! I learn more from Towcars, and Towing and Driving Safely than any other subject on the Forum.

Val & Frank

 

[Lutz]

I would just like to add one final comment from my side. The 85% recommendation is purely arbitrary and is not, to my knowledge, supported by any scientific data. As everyone knows, other factors play an important part too, so it would be important to know under what conditions the 85% were arrived at. But even that information is not forthcoming. It seems that it was determined only on the basis that "it seemed about right" and it has since been adopted by one and all for the same reason. However, there is absolutely no reason why 80% or 90% should not have been chosen. Both would have been just as valid.

 

[STEVE_5041381]

Agree with you Frank - but notice lots of people on here give the advice "the heavier the better" where is it all going to end

caravanning is fast becoming 4x4 dominated. What with rising costs/environmental issues we have to encourage caravan manufacturers to think "lighter" I am not against 4x4 drivers -

drive what you want. But I think that drivers who prefer to drive lighter vehicles (like myself) the choices for them are becoming more and more limited (you just have to look at some of the posting on the forum), which a few years ago was not the case. I dont drive a 4x4 because apart from caravanning I have no need for a 4x4 dont - want to start another 4x4 debate but come on folks caravanning is for all types of vehicles.

 

[Lol1]

Once again Steve, you have hit the nail on the head, you're not a chippy by trade are you?

I and many others do recommend a heavier car, not because we want to, but because we have to. It's fine if you are on your own, a little risk warms the blood, but when others are relying on you, for me, it's always "safety first".

I would love to own a light car, preferably four wheel drive, that is both cheap to run and capable of towing the caravan of my choice. The thing is, we demand a certain amount of equipment at a certain price when choosing our caravan, that means weight. While demand is there, well equipped, heavy caravans will not get any lighter, but they may soon be the preserve of the rich if taxation has anything to do with it. There again, any sort of motoring will be the preserve of the rich, if taxation has anything to do with it.

 

[Lutz]

Once again Steve, you have hit the nail on the head, you're not a chippy by trade are you?

I and many others do recommend a heavier car, not because we want to, but because we have to. It's fine if you are on your own, a little risk warms the blood, but when others are relying on you, for me, it's always "safety first".

I would love to own a light car, preferably four wheel drive, that is both cheap to run and capable of towing the caravan of my choice. The thing is, we demand a certain amount of equipment at a certain price when choosing our caravan, that means weight. While demand is there, well equipped, heavy caravans will not get any lighter, but they may soon be the preserve of the rich if taxation has anything to do with it. There again, any sort of motoring will be the preserve of the rich, if taxation has anything to do with it.

..... unless the manufacurers come up with innovative technical solutions (active safety devices) that would allow heavy caravans to be towed safely by light cars. DSC (or ESP) is a first step.

 

[Lol1]

Once again Steve, you have hit the nail on the head, you're not a chippy by trade are you?

I and many others do recommend a heavier car, not because we want to, but because we have to. It's fine if you are on your own, a little risk warms the blood, but when others are relying on you, for me, it's always "safety first".

I would love to own a light car, preferably four wheel drive, that is both cheap to run and capable of towing the caravan of my choice. The thing is, we demand a certain amount of equipment at a certain price when choosing our caravan, that means weight. While demand is there, well equipped, heavy caravans will not get any lighter, but they may soon be the preserve of the rich if taxation has anything to do with it. There again, any sort of motoring will be the preserve of the rich, if taxation has anything to do with it.

Indeed Lutz, I would favour something that is designed specifically for the caravan and fitted to the caravan. Even so, at the end of the day I would prefer a technological solution and a heavy car.

Or a lighter caravan.

 

[STEVE_5041381]

Well if i have hit the nail on the head - can you guys pls tell me why you want buy larger/heavier caravans driving the market in that direction ? am i missing the point here because if we carry on in this direction the next generation of caravans will need a juggernaut to pull them, surely you can get all the

"goodies" you want in a van that weights around 1300kgs ? .

 

[Val & Frank]

Hi Steve,

We have a heavy van around 1850kg MTPLM. Why ? because we like it!!! we are retired just the two of us with occasional grandaughter (soon). My wife wanted a bathroom she could use, she does not want to use site facilities (personal thing). Not being used to towing for an awful long time I read up that TA are more stable than single axels. So it's a TA. Being retired means we can use the van anytime of the year, this weekend it will be Braemar so a well insulated van is a must!! Oh and the wet heating system, along with the inboard tank also helps. The fixed bed is also very user friendly, but not weight friendly I suspect. The fridge and cooker are also useful, along with the Truma TA movers. The spare wheel on the al-ko also is a nice to have,along with the heavy duty battery.

I don't want to sound smug or anything but caravan manufacturers moved up market to satisfy a demand from customers who are possibly like us, retired, comfortable, and a little more adventuress than we used to be. It's not the quick dash on a Friday evening anymore, for a certain section of caravanners. It's a leisurely drive, and then set up for a week or so to live in comfort.

If this requires a heavy vehicle so be it.Not that I am trying to justify our choice, just trying to explain why we made it.

ps Our 4x4 will average 6000 miles per year and last me until I'm finished.

Val & Frank

 

[emmerson2]

Steve, I have to agree with Frank here. I also tow a heavy van, albeit an old coachbuilt one. Why? Because like Frank and many others, I want to!

Over the years that I've been 'vanning, manufacturers have gone from vans like mine, built for quality, not price or weight,which, by their nature were heavy. Then there was the period which produced vans like the Sprites ( the original ones,not the CI variety)and Microlites, which were built down to a weight and price. Now the wheel has turned again, and we've got big, heavy vans again. No doubt in the fullness of time, we'll see smaller lighter vans again. But, bear in mind, the manufacturers will onlt make what we, the buying public, buy. If a van doesn't sell, it won't be made for long. So, my friend, the answer lies with the new-van buyers. Stop buying heavy vans, and the makers will damn soon make lighter ones!

 

[dave_374301770]

Hi there

Im new to this caravan thing and quite honestly im scared now lol. I have a ford focus estate 1.8tdi will i be able to tow a caravan without rolling over or should i just stick to the trailer tent lol?

Dave

 

[Lol1]

You should be fine with your Focus, Dave. Luckily you haven't got your caravan yet, so you can match your car to it relatively easy.

If you need any advice on weight ratios don't hesitate to post, someone will answer.

 

[dave_374301770]

You should be fine with your Focus, Dave. Luckily you haven't got your caravan yet, so you can match your car to it relatively easy.

If you need any advice on weight ratios don't hesitate to post, someone will answer.

Hi there lol. ive just got my caravan this morning. its only a starter and its a coachman mirage 350/2. fully laden is 900kg and as far as im aware i can tow up to 1100kg.Thats based on the 85% theroy. Ive worked out that im acually going to be towing a caravan at about 70% the cars kerb weight. Do you think this is good?. i havent towed the van yet. it was droped of to me this morning. I am waiting for my towball fitting on wednesday and them im off for the weekend all being well for my first tow of a caravan. Ive towed a trailer tent a lot of times but this i must admit makes me a little nervous. We are not going far the first time just so we can get used to a bit and get a bit of a feel for towing. Any advice much appreciated.

Many thanks

Dave