Running In & Towing

[xtrailman]

Dave

I think you are showing more concern than is necessary.

While i always try to run in a new engine to book, in practise it is near impossible.

when i had my audi i pulled out onto a busy road, and only saw a car at the last minute, blind spot i suppose, to avoid a accident i floored it, and actually hit the rev limiter.

Not something i would do with any engine normally, but it avoided a possible collision. It didn't do any harm to the engine, and the engine was sweet when i sold it at 45K.

The salesman told me that audi had a power limit on that particular engine, so full performance was not immediately available, so what i am trying to say, if the manufacturer considers it required, then electronics will programmed to deal with any running in issues.

i did work with a rep that never changed the oil, thrashed it from day one, then after putting 40k on it got rid, he never suffered a engine failure, just topped it up with oil.

today a lot of these rep cars don't even see a oil change for 20k.

By the way as you have researched, the audi had a special running in oil, and DID use oil for the fisrt 10k, after the first service it never used any.

So regardless of what some "experts" on this site say, you will do no noticeable damage to your car towing from new.

If you look on the honest john forum, he has a schedule for running in a diesel, its worth reading, although i think he goes a bit over the top, i dare say it will pay dividends if you keep the car for 200k.

 

[Mikey1]

Alot of oils that are used these days are longlife oils which are quite hard and they say the engine is never realy run in ,was always told get rid of the longlife stuff and put Mobil 1 in.

 

[seth1]

Perhaps seems to me some people are going OTT as to "running in".Maybe a bit of the subject but a good example,a long time ago we fitted two identical engine kits consisting of six liners,six pistons,six ring sets,a full set of conrod bearings,a set of mains and a service head etc.One engine i would say was "ran" in softer than soft.The other was "thrashed" from day one.The "ran" in power unit had excessive oil consumption,seemed to have less peak power and was a pig.The "thrashed" power unit was a completely different quantity and for the better.

As for glazed bores,this would be very remote from "running" in,and is mainly due to leaving the unit idling for excessive periods,leading to low cylinder temps and partially unburnt charges and thus bores being washed down.

Still my advise would be to drive it as normal and avoid leaving it idling for any length of time.

 

[DevonshireDave]

Dave

I think you are showing more concern than is necessary.

While i always try to run in a new engine to book, in practise it is near impossible.

when i had my audi i pulled out onto a busy road, and only saw a car at the last minute, blind spot i suppose, to avoid a accident i floored it, and actually hit the rev limiter.

Not something i would do with any engine normally, but it avoided a possible collision. It didn't do any harm to the engine, and the engine was sweet when i sold it at 45K.

The salesman told me that audi had a power limit on that particular engine, so full performance was not immediately available, so what i am trying to say, if the manufacturer considers it required, then electronics will programmed to deal with any running in issues.

i did work with a rep that never changed the oil, thrashed it from day one, then after putting 40k on it got rid, he never suffered a engine failure, just topped it up with oil.

today a lot of these rep cars don't even see a oil change for 20k.

By the way as you have researched, the audi had a special running in oil, and DID use oil for the fisrt 10k, after the first service it never used any.

So regardless of what some "experts" on this site say, you will do no noticeable damage to your car towing from new.

If you look on the honest john forum, he has a schedule for running in a diesel, its worth reading, although i think he goes a bit over the top, i dare say it will pay dividends if you keep the car for 200k.

Hi Ray

I intend to keep the Santa Fe for some time. My wife's Octavia (my old car) now has 186,000 on the clock and we had that from new but then again, I never towed with that til it had done 140,000+. That's running sweet as a nut. I ran that in without booting it but my driving was mixed speeds and roads etc. The car doesn't use any oil and returns an average of 54.5 MPG even now.

I suppose if a job's worth doing and all that, but I appreciate it's not the easiest job in the world as you rightly point out.

Dave

 

[Mikey1]

I think everyone would agree regular maintenance is the key for long life

 

[Oldsalt49]

Mikey,

Thats what my doctor tell me!

David

 

[JohnL]

Here is an interesting thought;

A number of contributors here are suggesting that you should ignore the handbook instructions on running in a vehicle, implying that their method is better, and effectively accusing the manufacturers of being wrong.

It could be argued that the running in instructions form part of a contract, it certainly forms part of the manufacturers guarantee clauses. If their instructions are wrong, then they are an unfair contract term. For those who advocate ignoring the instructions, perhaps you would like to try and sue the manufacturers?

I am fairly certain that you would loose. I am also fairly certain that the manufacturers offer the instructions in good faith, and based on far more in depth testing than any individual can achieve.

I am also sure that running in is not just for the engine, but for all the systems and parts of the vehicle to settle down and bed in.

Mikey

There is a probability that you may not be found out if you ignore the running in instructions, but there is also a probability that you will be found out, and if something goes wrong, it is likely to void the guarantee on the whole car and that could be very expensive. Why chance it, for the want of a few days of motoring to get you through the restricted distance.?

 

[Mikey1]

John L i have never said ignore the manufactures advice and my quote was from my experience as nothing was ever said in my hand books ref the running in not that i had the chance too.

My other reference was how could the manufacturer tell?I believe they cant as when i had an auto change up issue on my car when towing they said in the data capture it doesnt show anything only revs temps etc,to solve the issue they connected a laptop to the car and drove with me watching what the car was doing.

If you are saying that you invalidate your warranty what happens if you buy a 1 yr old car that towed from zero miles didnt run it in are you saying the second owner suffers,again difficult too prove,they could wash their hands on all secondhand cars with a towbar saying it wasnt run in,unlikely?

 

[Herv]

Ok the original question was relating to a new Hyundai Santa Fe, and I would agree with following whatever the handbook says.

But just to add to what some of the posters said here...

My new car (BMW 520d) is getting delivered to the campsite where we'll be staying over Easter. I asked the dealership whether running-in was required and whether there was any problem with towing from day one. The answer was no to both questions.

I'll go for a few drives before we leave (2 days after delivery), but I doubt very much there'll be any more than 200 miles on the clock before we hitch the van.

 

[ProfJohnL]

John L i have never said ignore the manufactures advice and my quote was from my experience as nothing was ever said in my hand books ref the running in not that i had the chance too.

My other reference was how could the manufacturer tell?I believe they cant as when i had an auto change up issue on my car when towing they said in the data capture it doesnt show anything only revs temps etc,to solve the issue they connected a laptop to the car and drove with me watching what the car was doing.

If you are saying that you invalidate your warranty what happens if you buy a 1 yr old car that towed from zero miles didnt run it in are you saying the second owner suffers,again difficult too prove,they could wash their hands on all secondhand cars with a towbar saying it wasnt run in,unlikely?

Mikey,

I apologise if you thought I was implying that you may have ignored the running in advice. It was a general rhetorical question to your statement "Would they ever be able to tell if a failure occurred because you didnt run in for x amount of miles before towing?"

I wonder why anyone would choose not to follow the manufacturer's instructions. I gather from your postings that the manufacture of your cars may not have issued running in instructions, which just goes to illustrate the point that different manufacturers have different requirements for the running in.

It follows that "Running in" instructions are not transferable between makes and models.

I do not understand your statement "but in some scenarios you cannot avoid not following manufactures advice" Hitching a caravan is not something you do without forethought and planning.

It does not matter how, but if the manufacturer of your car became aware that you failed to follow their "running in" instructions then they may be able to cancel rights to the manufacturers guarantee. I have been at pains to illustrate the difference between your statutory Warranty and the Manufactures Guarantee's in other threads, suffice to say they are very different. The Warranty only exists between the original seller and purchaser. Guarantees exist between parties established by a contract for that purpose.

As for the transfer of rights under the manufacturers guarantee to a new owner, suffice to say that if the manufacture has cancelled a guarantee for some reason to do with the way the vehicle was used, the manufacturers guarantee will remain cancelled if the vehicle is resold. Those are questions you should ask of the seller and the manufacturer before you agree to purchase a second hand vehicle.

 

[Mikey1]

Mikey,

I apologise if you thought I was implying that you may have ignored the running in advice. It was a general rhetorical question to your statement "Would they ever be able to tell if a failure occurred because you didnt run in for x amount of miles before towing?"

I wonder why anyone would choose not to follow the manufacturer's instructions. I gather from your postings that the manufacture of your cars may not have issued running in instructions, which just goes to illustrate the point that different manufacturers have different requirements for the running in.

It follows that "Running in" instructions are not transferable between makes and models.

I do not understand your statement "but in some scenarios you cannot avoid not following manufactures advice" Hitching a caravan is not something you do without forethought and planning.

It does not matter how, but if the manufacturer of your car became aware that you failed to follow their "running in" instructions then they may be able to cancel rights to the manufacturers guarantee. I have been at pains to illustrate the difference between your statutory Warranty and the Manufactures Guarantee's in other threads, suffice to say they are very different. The Warranty only exists between the original seller and purchaser. Guarantees exist between parties established by a contract for that purpose.

As for the transfer of rights under the manufacturers guarantee to a new owner, suffice to say that if the manufacture has cancelled a guarantee for some reason to do with the way the vehicle was used, the manufacturers guarantee will remain cancelled if the vehicle is resold. Those are questions you should ask of the seller and the manufacturer before you agree to purchase a second hand vehicle.

I agree with the planning and fore thought 1 of my cars was delyed by 3 weeks which meant i picked it up on the morning i towed to Newquay which meant i had no choice.

I understand all warranty and checking but all im trying to say is if you buy a secondhand car you dont know the history of how its been driven,the saying 1 careful owner 7 maniacs!

My point is you buy a seconhand car own for a few months or a year and the gearbox fails,if they inspect it and say it wasnt run in before it towed what can you do?

 

[Pat_374304630]

Hi,

If you have no choice,but to tow, then make sure the revs do not go above 2500 for the first 1000 miles. That's my advice anyway.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Pat

There is no such case as having no choice but to tow. towing is always a conscious decision that has to be planned.

You should follow your manufacturers instructions about running, and if it say no towing then you must abide by it, or potentially suffer the loss of rights under your guarantee.

You should plan your change of vehicle to account for holidays etc.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Ok the original question was relating to a new Hyundai Santa Fe, and I would agree with following whatever the handbook says.

But just to add to what some of the posters said here...

My new car (BMW 520d) is getting delivered to the campsite where we'll be staying over Easter. I asked the dealership whether running-in was required and whether there was any problem with towing from day one. The answer was no to both questions.

I'll go for a few drives before we leave (2 days after delivery), but I doubt very much there'll be any more than 200 miles on the clock before we hitch the van.

With respect Herve,

Just because your dealer and BMW may have no concerns about towing from new, that only applies to BMW. It has no relevance what-so-ever to Dave who is picking up a Santa Fe.

You must only follow the manufactures advice relevant to your vehicle if you want to retain your full rights under the manufactures guarantee.

 

[Pat_374304630]

Hi John L,

Looking at the original posting it looks as if the holiday is already booked. I suppose going by what you said, there are 2 choices. 1 Cancel the holiday until another time. 2 Don't pick up the Santa Fe until after the holiday.

The advise I offered was simply that if towing needs to happen then heed my advise.

 

[david_374531985]

I DAVE AFTER READING YOUR POST I REALIZED I WAS GOING TO HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM AS YOU I PICK UP MY NEW IGSIGNA SRI THIS TUESDAY AND I AM OF ON FRIDAY I CONTACTED VAUXHALL TECHNICAL DEPT WHO E MAILED YESTERDAY TO SAY IT WAS NOT A PROBLEM TO TOW SO I AM GLAD I READ YOUR POST HOPE YOU GET YOUR PROBLEM SORTED REGARDS DAVE

 

[SteveW77]

Kia on the other hand, recomend that 1200 miles are covered before towing with the new Sorento KX. Who am I to argue, then at least I know that I have done everything I could to ensure trouble free towing.

Steve W

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hi John L,

Looking at the original posting it looks as if the holiday is already booked. I suppose going by what you said, there are 2 choices. 1 Cancel the holiday until another time. 2 Don't pick up the Santa Fe until after the holiday.

The advise I offered was simply that if towing needs to happen then heed my advise.

Pat

It is of course up to the individual to choose if they want to follow the manufactures advice or not. But the possible consequences of choosing to ignore the advice could ultimately be very expensive, if the vehicle breaks down and the manufacture refuse to cover repairs under their guarantee because you contravened one of their instructions about running in.

Going on holiday with a caravan is a planned activity, so is changing a car. If the brand of car needs to be run in without towing then either delay the car change or cancel the holiday.

It may sound a tuff line, but it really should not come as any surprise to anyone.

 

[david_374531985]

steve who is arguing it is only a friendly discussion i only thanked dave for bringing the subject to my attention

 

[Herv]

With respect Herve,

Just because your dealer and BMW may have no concerns about towing from new, that only applies to BMW. It has no relevance what-so-ever to Dave who is picking up a Santa Fe.

You must only follow the manufactures advice relevant to your vehicle if you want to retain your full rights under the manufactures guarantee.

With respect John L, that's exactly why I put the first paragraph in...

 

[DevonshireDave]

Kia on the other hand, recomend that 1200 miles are covered before towing with the new Sorento KX. Who am I to argue, then at least I know that I have done everything I could to ensure trouble free towing.

Steve W

Isn't that odd Steve? As far as I can tell (not having the manual yet) the SF has a 1000 mile run period before towing. The new Sorrie has the same engine but Kia say 1200 miles. Maybe we should split the difference and say 1100 LOL.

 

[DevonshireDave]

I DAVE AFTER READING YOUR POST I REALIZED I WAS GOING TO HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM AS YOU I PICK UP MY NEW IGSIGNA SRI THIS TUESDAY AND I AM OF ON FRIDAY I CONTACTED VAUXHALL TECHNICAL DEPT WHO E MAILED YESTERDAY TO SAY IT WAS NOT A PROBLEM TO TOW SO I AM GLAD I READ YOUR POST HOPE YOU GET YOUR PROBLEM SORTED REGARDS DAVE

I spoke to the dealer and we're trying to pick it up earlier so we can get some miles on the car before the hols. Enjoy the car and the holiday!