Scan ALL caravans leaving ports

[Bob_374248583]

Nearly all caravans now have an electronic tag with the CRiS VIN number. Why not scan all caravans with an automatic scanner as they pass through the ports? This would probably put a major dent into the trafficing of stolen vans to mainland Europe and Ireland. It would save the insurance companies millions. The cost of the equipment could be sponsored by the insurance companies, as they would see a major saving in money paid out, and the caravan clubs, as they would be acting in members interests. Automatic scanning can be done, so why do we not use it? I have seen one company who say they can scan a chip at 200km per hour! The last time I went through a port it was a tad slower than 200km per hour. I was also pulled in and asked a number of questions. Had I loaded the van, left it unnattended etc, but NOT if I owned the van. By stopping the trade in stolen vans abroad it will reduce the value and therefore make it less tempting to steal it in the first place. I am not a techy and I am sure there are many obstacles but if there is a will there is a way. Let's get it done.

Bob

Cumbria

 

[Tram]

What a good idea. It's so good it should be put on every motorway as well. If a caravan is stolen it could never be sold on or moved without soon being found. That should stop 90% of thefts.

 

[Bob_374248583]

It seems such a simple solution to a major problem. Why has it not been done? Perhaps magazines such as Practical Caravan could help spread the word.

 

[Lutz]

Frankly, I don't think anything would be gained by the suggested scanning because I doubt whether any stolen caravans ever find their way into mainland Europe. For a start, very few UK caravans are actually exported anyway, so UK models stand out like a sore thumb and are easily recognised. Secondly, it would be well nigh impossible to use a stolen UK caravan on the Continent other than as a static or permanently towed behind a UK registered car. In all other cases, it would have to be registered in the respective country, just like any other vehicle and that would be difficult if it had previously been stolen because there will probably not be any paperwork to accompany it.

For this reason, caravan theft is almost unheard of on the Continent. Even stolen cars are seldom sold as such, but are usually broken up for spares, because parts are easier to dispose of than complete vehicles. But who wants to buy bits off a UK caravan on the Continent?

 

[empee]

Not sure you're right there Lutz - there was a news program on TV just recently highlighting the problem of stolen British vans later found in Spain. The local, and British police were conducting searches of campsites in Spain and checking CRIS registrations and reportadly finding quite a few stolen vans. Sadly most of the ones found had been purchased in good faith by their current 'owners' so not good news for them.

A scanner in ports and indeed on motorways would seem to be very 'do-able' - they collect road tolls that way.

Excellent idea.

Martin

 

[Lutz]

As you say, stolen caravans found abroad have more than likely been purchased in good faith by their new 'owners'. For the reasons that I gave, I doubt whether whether any of them were taken abroad to purposely cover up the theft.

Surely, there would be a case for registering caravans in their own right with their own number plate and log book, as in most other European countries. That would make them a lot easier to identify than scanning the CRIS number, which can't be read while the caravan is on the move. This also has the advantage of allowing any caravan to be towed behind any car without the need for transferring the number plate.

 

[ValA.]

Weren't the stolen vans mostly Hobby, and set up 'semi-permanently' on a site near Benidorm? Maybe you saw the programme with Ricki Tomlinson, where he added an awning, and a fitted kitchen, with units, fridge, freezer, etc to the side of a Hobby - then put down a wooden floor, etc and connected up to mains water and drainage. I got the impression that the site he was on was the site where the vans were found - and that many of them had featured in similar semi-permanent 'make-overs' (which are advertised cheaply over here). I don't think they were still being used as tourers - so perhaps the site-owners maybe knew where the vans were coming from, but turned a blind eye to 'registration'.

 

[RogerP]

I vaguely remember the article and I think most of the vans had been purchased by UK residents who were wintering in the Costa's. So lutz is probably not far from the mark.

As for is this a good idea? , in principle yes , however you have to question why its not being done already and also why its not being done for cars / vans / lorrys as vehicle theft is probably far higher than caravan theft.

Well actually it is , if you think about it Tracker devices!!!!

The reason why trackers and not more widely used is cost. No one wants to pay for them unless insurers demand it.

So is the problem down to us consumers for not taking every reasonable precaution to safe guarding our own proprty.

Why should the burden fall on someone else?

 

[Dustydog]

According to the Gurus caravan theft has reduced some 70% since 2000. This year 1600 have actually been pinched.

When an Insurer underwrites a risk he/ she takes into account the frequency of theft. Be under no illusion , we the policyholders, are already paying premiums which reflect the past as well as the future thefts, year on year.

If most of them end up with ex pats in Spain, surely tracing them should not be that difficult??

Cheers

Alan

 

[Lutz]

Obviously if stolen caravan are being used as statics on the Continent they will not need to be registered so they would fall though controls once they have left the country.

However, I still think that registering all caravans with their own number plate before they can be towed on public roads would help as documentation would have to be produced every time there is a change in ownership. A proper number plate is a lot easier to identify than the CRIS registration.

 

[Zafiral]

A number plate takes time (granted not much) to change and a carboard plate or one stuck in the rear window stands out. If all vehicles and the vans plates did not match then a quick opertunist theft (eg from a service station where time is of the essence) would be harder to spot.

 

[trevgib]

If vans and trailers were issued number plates then an mot would come into force, I know another payment but it would have a legal document displaying ownership and a road side check on the police national compter would check stolen or not. other countries do it but we are behind times.I cant understand why they are not on the register on the computer as plant and marine is via the chassis numbers. I would rather my van be stopped and checked by the police than it being stolen and driven past patrols who dont bat an eyelid

Trev

 

[Lutz]

MOT would not necessarily have to accompany trailer (or caravan) licensing, although it may have its advantages, too. Theoretically, caravans could be exempt from MOT. However, number plates are easily and quickly identified and compared with the central DVLA register in Swansea.

 

[Bob_374248583]

Anybody who says vans are not stolen and then taken to either Ireland or mainland Europe has got to be joking. The recent article reporting the Lancashire Police checks in Spain found 36 stolen British vans, on two sites near Benidorm out of about 120 vans checked. They were set up at static seasonal vans and probably have never moved since arriving in Spain. Clearly a very good market place for stolen vans. OUR vans. But this idea is not just about stopping vans going to Europe. Anything that can be done to reduce the value of a stolen van is good news for us and for our insurance premiums.

As you state the insurance companies assess the risk and charge accordingly assuming they will have to pay out a certain amount and then make a profit. Profit being the operative word. So if they can reduce the losses they can reduce the premiums and still make a profit, or make even more profit. But it is US, the caravan owner, who loose the most when a caravan is stolen.

If separate registration is the way forward lets go with it. I agree it would be easier to scan. The DVLA do it all the time with cars, using static and mobile scanners. CRiS already have the data. Lets use it for our benefit. All dealers send details to CRiS of vans sold or purchased. All it would need is simple legislation, a small fee and the issue of a registration plate. Whether we use the VIN number or another number generated by CRiS doesn't make any difference to me. All I want is a reduction in caravan theft. I am quite happy to be scanned driving up the motorway or going through a port. I don't think it requires MOT or other checks. Just a law to say commercial or private changes of ownership need to be reported to CRiS, then we have an up to date register, which for the most part we probably do already. Most of us do it in order to get the CRiS document and gladly or otherwise give them

 

[ShadySadie]

How many caravans are stolen and how many ports can be used as exit points?

Chip scanners are hand held units like they swipe over a cat or dog. If it was that easy to stop theft why are all vehicles not fitted with chips and main roads fitted with scanners to stop all vehicle theft?

Does anybody not realise that organised thieves would soon have a scanner to find the chip and then substitute it with another.

A business colleague paid to have trackers fitted to two vans and found a year later that within a week his drivers had found them and a way of blocking them.

I think it's a nice dream Bob, and dream is about as real as it will get.

 

[Bob_374248583]

If all we do is dream, then why bother with security at all. Most, and I include myself, spend a few thousand pounds of hard earned money. My money and possibly your money is stolen every year in the form of our caravans. We loose the van, contents, and probably personal possessions. Not to mention the hassle, cost of the replacement and the loss or our time in the van. But I think this idea is more than a dream, it can become reality. If we push and want it to. Criminals love complacancy. We just let them get on with it. The technology is there. The registration system is there. All we need to do is use it to our advantage. I am sure criminals will try to beat it. We probably will never stop all caravan thefts. But we can make a huge dent in it. LETS's DO IT. We all benefit. All it needs is an organisation such as the CC or C &CC or even Practical Caravan magazine to push for it.

SO WHAT ABOUT IT PRACTICAL CARAVAN?

Bob

Cumbria

 

[Lutz]

Believe me, there is no market for UK caravans on the Continent, other than perhaps between UK nationals residing abroad. If stolen caravans are found on the Continent then only either because they have been bought in good faith by their new owners or as static units. A UK caravan being towed by a foreign-registered car would stand out like a sore thumb.

Surely there must be some correlation between the need to register caravans as vehicles in their own right in most Continental countries and the fact that caravan thefts are almost unheard of on the other side of the Channel.

 

[ShadySadie]

My tow car is worth three times the value of our caravan. Numbers of Cars,Vans,Lorries and plant vehicles stolen compared to caravans?

They are registered and have security markings and trackers and other security devices. Highways are littered with cameras and NPR systems and even a few policemen who may be able to do a little more than point speed guns.

Vehicle theft must far out strip any problem with caravans, the total cost of the loss af a friends HGV tractor unit would buy half a dozen good caravans.

If this was feasible multi billion vehicle insureres bussinesses would have been on to it long ago would they not.

I still believe it's a pipe dream.

 

[Bob_374248583]

My tow car is worth three times the value of our caravan. Numbers of Cars,Vans,Lorries and plant vehicles stolen compared to caravans?

They are registered and have security markings and trackers and other security devices. Highways are littered with cameras and NPR systems and even a few policemen who may be able to do a little more than point speed guns.

Vehicle theft must far out strip any problem with caravans, the total cost of the loss af a friends HGV tractor unit would buy half a dozen good caravans.

If this was feasible multi billion vehicle insureres bussinesses would have been on to it long ago would they not.

I still believe it's a pipe dream.

Shadie Sady, you have obviously never been a victim of caravan theft. If you had, you would want to see any measures implemented to prevent/deter it.The technology is there but it needs the support of caravanners to push for this.

Mrs Bob

 

[emmitdb]

Lutz,

I have to disagree with you as far as your mention

"Believe me, there is no market for UK caravans on the Continent"

On my last visit I spoke to a chap who had sold two old vans for ridiculous money to Spanish families who wanted them as semi perm seasonal pitches.

The system of registering vans only applies if they are to be used on the road and these vans don't 'see' a spanish road.

 

[Bob_374248583]

Lutz,

I have to disagree with you as far as your mention

"Believe me, there is no market for UK caravans on the Continent"

On my last visit I spoke to a chap who had sold two old vans for ridiculous money to Spanish families who wanted them as semi perm seasonal pitches.

The system of registering vans only applies if they are to be used on the road and these vans don't 'see' a spanish road.

If there was "no market" for stolen U.K caravans in mainland europe, how come, one Police Force found that a quarter of the vans they checked one only 2 sites were stolen??

 

[CornishMike]

Lutz,

I have to disagree with you as far as your mention

"Believe me, there is no market for UK caravans on the Continent"

On my last visit I spoke to a chap who had sold two old vans for ridiculous money to Spanish families who wanted them as semi perm seasonal pitches.

The system of registering vans only applies if they are to be used on the road and these vans don't 'see' a spanish road.

Bob - We sort of do what you're suggesting already, but not in an easily traceable format. When you buy a new number plate for your 'van, you have to prove ownership of the tow car before you can get one. So, why don't the DVLA simply link the 'van's CRIS number to the number plate at time of issue? I this way the Police would then easily be able to check stolen vans when on the road. Having said that, when I changed cars 2 years ago, the DVLA forms took 3-4 weeks to arrive, due to a sloppy dealer's admin, and I had to tow with the wrong no. on the van. No one stopped me or checked it! Mike

 

[Lutz]

I don't know what sort of people those Spanish families were that bought UK caravans, but they were obviously very naive. With no spares readily available, such caravans aren't even worth a ridicilously low price that they may be offered for.

 

[GeorgeB]

Yep....scan all caravans leaving the UK plus scan them at all motorway service areas, it could even be extended to all caravan sites.

its quick, cheap, simple & most of all effective! who's going to nick a caravan if they know all vans will be scanned! Once a van's been registered as stolen, continuous scanning makes them practically worthless!

BRING IT ON, what say you PRACTICAL CARAVAN

 

[Bob_374248583]

Thanks George B. Frankly I am surprised at all the negative comments being posted regarding this idea. Yes I suppose I have a vested interest. I have been the victim of a stolen caravan. I now have another caravan, and I don't want it nicked by some thieving git whose only work is probably stealing caravans. Yes we had security, but it was stolen anyway. But that got me thinking. Caravan manufacturers proudly boast that they have electronic tags fitted to caravans. WHY? We don't bother using them. To use the technology seems to some a dream. To others caravan theft doesn't happen. Perhaps you think it is an insurance rip off? Believe me if it happens to you, then you will want it stopped.

A tag can be scanned so why not scan it? There are about 20 ports in mainland UK. Lets set up scanners and stop the trade. Put them on motorways, sites or anywhere a caravan may go. I don't claim to know the figures, but our insurance compamy will have to pay out about