- Jan 3, 2012
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Hi Prof JohnL That exactly what i am doing staying at home keeping our family safe
- Jun 20, 2005
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This morning’s news showing hundreds of youngsters partying in London just about sums up the selfish crass stupidity that may cause us responsible people both health and economic problems🤬🤬🤬Rant over
- Jul 18, 2017
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Saw that and thought it was disgusting especially as many of them may be responsible for many more deaths of their relatives and friends. Why weren't the police out in force issuing fines?
In addition to a severe fine they should be made to do community work at a local hospital or failing that they are on day release and have to return each evening to the jail for the night and weekend for a minimum of a month and no TV or mobile phones.
- Mar 14, 2005
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I watched the Government's broadcast about the Christmas 2020 C19 arrangements this afternoon.
Both The PM and Professor Whitty (Chief Medical Officer) acknowledged that the infection rates are still too high hand in several areas actually increasing. This has to call into question if the present tiered restrictions are stiff enough.
When the Christmas regulations were announced, it was expected the tiered restrictions would have brought the R value down. Unfortunately this has not been the case. In my view and that of leading specialists and renowned publications like the Lancet, logically it would have been sensible to revise and tighten the christmas regulations.
For some unexplained reason the Government has decided not to change the regulations, instead they are now emphasising the nature of the regulations as "Limits and not Targets". Technically this is no change.
The PM is playing with the idea that it should be up to the people to make their own minds up about how limit the spread of C19 within the regulations. Given the evidence from the tiered restrictions we know this is a fool'sh hope. If we see growth of infection under the tighter Tiered restrictions, relaxing the restrictions is bound to cause a jump in infections. In the Q&A section of the programme, the CMO was asked about this and he admitted the issue had been modelled and all models produced increasing infections as a result of Christmas.
The CMO made it clear that becasue the virus tends to reside in the upper respiratory tract, it is far more transmittable and virtually as soon as a victim has the virus, they can spread it. It also means that it is easier to become infected. This is why Covid-19 is so serious. Couple to the fact that the symptoms take several days to develop a person can be spreading virus well before they start to feel ill, and in some people they may not actually be aware they are ill.
There is insufficient evidence as yet to determine if a person who has been vaccinated can or cannot spread the virus as an aerosol. Until there is sufficient evidence that vaccinated people cannot continue to spread the virus in this way we have to assume they can.
A further question was asked about how quickly we might see C19 restrictions abolished now we are vaccinating the population. The CMO confirmed my own statements on this, Its going to be a protracted process lasting many months, and until there is a significant majority of the population vaccinated we will still have to use the non medication precautions were are currently employing.
Both The PM and Professor Whitty (Chief Medical Officer) acknowledged that the infection rates are still too high hand in several areas actually increasing. This has to call into question if the present tiered restrictions are stiff enough.
When the Christmas regulations were announced, it was expected the tiered restrictions would have brought the R value down. Unfortunately this has not been the case. In my view and that of leading specialists and renowned publications like the Lancet, logically it would have been sensible to revise and tighten the christmas regulations.
For some unexplained reason the Government has decided not to change the regulations, instead they are now emphasising the nature of the regulations as "Limits and not Targets". Technically this is no change.
The PM is playing with the idea that it should be up to the people to make their own minds up about how limit the spread of C19 within the regulations. Given the evidence from the tiered restrictions we know this is a fool'sh hope. If we see growth of infection under the tighter Tiered restrictions, relaxing the restrictions is bound to cause a jump in infections. In the Q&A section of the programme, the CMO was asked about this and he admitted the issue had been modelled and all models produced increasing infections as a result of Christmas.
The CMO made it clear that becasue the virus tends to reside in the upper respiratory tract, it is far more transmittable and virtually as soon as a victim has the virus, they can spread it. It also means that it is easier to become infected. This is why Covid-19 is so serious. Couple to the fact that the symptoms take several days to develop a person can be spreading virus well before they start to feel ill, and in some people they may not actually be aware they are ill.
There is insufficient evidence as yet to determine if a person who has been vaccinated can or cannot spread the virus as an aerosol. Until there is sufficient evidence that vaccinated people cannot continue to spread the virus in this way we have to assume they can.
A further question was asked about how quickly we might see C19 restrictions abolished now we are vaccinating the population. The CMO confirmed my own statements on this, Its going to be a protracted process lasting many months, and until there is a significant majority of the population vaccinated we will still have to use the non medication precautions were are currently employing.
- Jun 16, 2020
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Just watched that Panorama about the vaccine development. Extremely interesting.
Well worth catching up on.
John
Parksy
Moderator
- Nov 12, 2009
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I saw some but not all of the prime ministers statement earlier today.
I'm no expert but I can't help wondering why, when a month long nationwide lockdown followed by a tiered system with Tier 3 is about to bankrupt much of the hospitality industry, the remedy to reduce the rates of infection seems to be more lockdown?
This system of social distancing with restaurant and pub shutdowns in selected areas clearly isn't working.
The government scientists seem to have run out of ideas, the form of lockdown in use at present isn't doing any good and unless the vaccine saves us there will be thousands of jobs lost and lives destroyed.
Perhaps there ought to be a crackdown on people who ignore the restrictions?
I read the comments earlier about young people partying in London, but London isn't the only place where the restrictions are ignored.
There was a rally last weekend in support of Indian farmers.
The rally took place in Birmingham, under Tier 3 since total lockdown was lifted.
If groups of people take such a cavalier attitude toward C19 restrictions no wonder the infection rates are rising.
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- Jul 18, 2017
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Many pubs in our area are corresponding very strictly with the guidelines, yet many people have the tenacity to argue the toss with the landlord and then get nasty with the LL when they insist on the persons following the guidelines. No wonder some are saying rather that have the aggro they will close shop until it is safe again.
What is wrong with people that they cannot understand simple precautions and obey guidelines which are there for their benefit and the benefit of others around them? Why do they have to try and be so macho about precautions?
Should the wearing of masks in public places be made mandatory?
What is wrong with people that they cannot understand simple precautions and obey guidelines which are there for their benefit and the benefit of others around them? Why do they have to try and be so macho about precautions?
Should the wearing of masks in public places be made mandatory?
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- Jan 3, 2012
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My wife went to the supermarket she had a mask on and they suppose to keep to the 2 metre apart this one who was next to her in the queue .the shop asistant said something and then she argued with her .
We just think some customers cannot follow the rules on Tier 3 or the guidelines .the PM has set.
We just think some customers cannot follow the rules on Tier 3 or the guidelines .the PM has set.
- Sep 26, 2018
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- Nov 11, 2009
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I agree with Parksys view on the effectiveness or lack of for the tier areas. On our local Points West news every evening a table of infection rates is shown. After lockdown2 all bar one area was “green” showing a steady reduction in rates of infection. That continued until about a week ago ares on the table went to red and last evening all bar one were red. However apart from a few localised spots even our red areas are only a quarter the rate of some Midlands and Norther towns. Bristol is asking to go from 3 to 2 on account of being reasonably successful. But just looking at their current rate going from 3 to 2 would give a “ heaven sent” launch platform for third wave that could be well established by 24th Dec as the figures in this area are already going in the wrong direction.
UK isn’t alone just look at Netherlands, Germany in fact a lot of European countries. Social mixing transmits the virus, but without it our economies, education, health and lives come to a halt. The answer is the vaccine. Until then the elderly and vulnerable should know what they have to do to keep safe, they have had 10 months to learn the techniques, they shouldn’t need HMG to tell them.
UK isn’t alone just look at Netherlands, Germany in fact a lot of European countries. Social mixing transmits the virus, but without it our economies, education, health and lives come to a halt. The answer is the vaccine. Until then the elderly and vulnerable should know what they have to do to keep safe, they have had 10 months to learn the techniques, they shouldn’t need HMG to tell them.
- Jul 18, 2017
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We were convinced that the Covid19 would have devastating effect on Africa as hygeince through no fault of theri own is not exactly top of the list.
However the incidence of Covid19 in the more developed countries in Africa i.e. South Africa and Zimbabwe is very low in comparison to the UK. Of course they could be under reporting, but that does not seem to be the case.
Yet in the UK Covid19 amongst smaller ethnic groups is supposed to be high. I wonder why this is?
However the incidence of Covid19 in the more developed countries in Africa i.e. South Africa and Zimbabwe is very low in comparison to the UK. Of course they could be under reporting, but that does not seem to be the case.
Yet in the UK Covid19 amongst smaller ethnic groups is supposed to be high. I wonder why this is?
- Mar 14, 2005
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I'm not sure if you are posting is tongue in cheek.
There has been a big difference between the first lockdown and the subsequent ones. The first was about as total as you could get, and it did limit social contacts. The later ones have really been only partial ones.
The results are clear that even the these partial contacts and the few who blatantly ignore the social distancing advice are the reasons for continuing spread of the virus.
Unfortunately one of the later provisions that allowed hospitality venues to open has encouraged some people to gather, and with the influence of alcohol means they can easily forget the need to socially distance.
We also have increasing levels of frustrations with restrictions, and its possible that they don't see the infection setting in so they think its safe to meet, They don't seem to realise its probably the very regulations that have encouraged social distancing that has prevented them catching it!
Ultimately it has to be individuals that take care to avoid becoming infected and infecting others, the regulations try to level the playing field to remove some temptations and make it easier to socially distance.
The task is surely to get everyone to understand the consequences of their actions and their responsibility to society as a whole and not just selfish satisfaction.
I sympathise with all businesses who are struggling, but to be honest which is more important saving livelyhoods or saving lives?
- Nov 11, 2009
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If you have never been in the position of knowing where your next pound is coming from you won’t know how important livelihood is to people. It leads to relationship breakdowns, health issues, possible suicide and family trauma. The effects can potentially be felt throughout life and the lives of dependents too. Perhaps we have too much hospitality of all forms ?
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- Jun 16, 2020
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There was a brief interview with Shaggy a couple of days ago. He spent his time over the past year between London, Jamaica and New York, but mostly in Jamaica. He observed that, in comparison, Jamaica could not afford to let it get out of hand. They could not police it and hospitals would never cope.
Jamaica have only been lightly hit. He puts it down to the citizens being fully aware of the danger and being disciplined in self policing themselves.
John
Jamaica have only been lightly hit. He puts it down to the citizens being fully aware of the danger and being disciplined in self policing themselves.
John
- Jun 20, 2005
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Complacency breeds Contempt.
When I started this thread it was to highlight two factors.
1. The original full Lockdown worked . Furlough helped. A true British sensible spirit on the whole was maintained.
2. The subsequent second lockdown was imo down to select groups of people who had no respect for the C19 guidelines and advice.
The economy was always a major factor for me. However you only have a thriving economy if you have thriving people.
There is no gain without pain.
If the entire UK want to survive healthily both physically and economically I see no other option than a full lockdown as before until such time as the C19 is eradicated and we are all vaccinated.
I too understand even a vaccinated person can still be a C19 carrier.
When I started this thread it was to highlight two factors.
1. The original full Lockdown worked . Furlough helped. A true British sensible spirit on the whole was maintained.
2. The subsequent second lockdown was imo down to select groups of people who had no respect for the C19 guidelines and advice.
The economy was always a major factor for me. However you only have a thriving economy if you have thriving people.
There is no gain without pain.
If the entire UK want to survive healthily both physically and economically I see no other option than a full lockdown as before until such time as the C19 is eradicated and we are all vaccinated.
I too understand even a vaccinated person can still be a C19 carrier.
Parksy
Moderator
- Nov 12, 2009
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My comment wasn't tongue in cheek, it is borne out of a sense of exasperation with people who continue to believe that the rules and guidelines don't apply to them and with the government who seem reluctant to grasp the nettle to introduce some tough regulations in order to reduce the rates of infection.
Yesterday evening the statement from the prime minister seemed to be to have ourselves a merry little Christmas but take personal responsibility for our own actions, but only if we feel like it because Boris doesn't want to be the one to spoil everyone's Christmas.
This is really not good enough.
It would appear that there are irresponsible individuals that really need to have the government to micro- manage their lives, otherwise they will continue to flout every rule, as we have seen in London and in Birmingham.
The government really need to take control, otherwise this pandemic can only lead us into a downward spiral.
Businesses employ people, directly and indirectly.
Unprecedented mass unemployment will lead to social unrest and the health and economic issues mentioned by other contributors previously.
I predict a total national lockdown early in 2021, but there have to be better long term solutions other than lockdowns and reliance on untried vaccines with too many imponderables for them to be completely relied upon.
- Jun 16, 2020
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Could the problem, and difference of opinions, even marginal differences, be down, at least to some extent, that we are governed by consent. Poor old Bojo has to try and walk the tIghtrope to keep all factions on board. Only to be continually criticised by the sensationist media no matter what course is taken.
Then I would not be happy with a dictatorship either. Hopefully not getting political as in party politics. I don’t think it would matter who was in charge. The system and the media is what we have grown to accept. And our system of government works quite well in normal times, despite the outdated traditions.
I think it is essential that governments are kept in check. But our current situation calls for speedy decision making and support for those decisions when made, less derision.
John
Then I would not be happy with a dictatorship either. Hopefully not getting political as in party politics. I don’t think it would matter who was in charge. The system and the media is what we have grown to accept. And our system of government works quite well in normal times, despite the outdated traditions.
I think it is essential that governments are kept in check. But our current situation calls for speedy decision making and support for those decisions when made, less derision.
John
Mel
Moderator
- Mar 17, 2007
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Nope. We live in Tier 3, unless we come out today ( unlikely imho). Even if we do go into Tier 2, Wales go into lockdown after Christmas so I imagine it will be sites closed and no border crossing.
Heigh Ho Worse things are happening.
mel
- Jul 18, 2017
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We paid a courier £31 to take Christmas presents to my wife's sister and brother in law in Cwmbran. Driving down to drop off the presents probably would have cost us the same in fuel anyway however we now know we are all safe.
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