My MIL has just had her second Pfizer jab exactly three weeks after the first.No mention of no alcohol 👍👍🥃🥃.
Hope they aren't pulling your chain😁
Hope they aren't pulling your chain😁
It came to my daughter from a doctor at Salisbury Hospital where she is due her jab on Saturday. However looking around I haven’t found anything official but there are several websites referring to such action where immunologists have noted that alcohol depresses white blood cell activity and count. For a vaccine to do its job properly white blood cell performance should be maximised. But no official trials have been reported. Here’s a piece from Huffpost.
Why Experts Are Warning Against Drinking Alcohol When You Have The Vaccine
Even if you're not getting the Covid-19 vaccine anytime soon, it might be worth stopping drinking. Here's why.
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Had our second jab yesterday and feel bit safer. Got a carpet firm to do all rooms and will have to put them off for six weeks or more to fit them.
Everyone in my mum’s care home received their 2nd Pfizer jab yesterday, as did all the staff.👏👏👏
Sadly I am in the 5th group. Maybe end April or May for me??
Sadly I am in the 5th group. Maybe end April or May for me??
Took my daughter for her first Pfizer jab tonight. 90 mile round trip foggy too. Whatever happened to BOJOs no further than 10 miles from a Center. I even wore just a T shirt as if there are no shows then at the end of the session surplus phials can be used on others. IE the drivers or partners waiting in the car park. No such luck in my case, but at least my daughter is now on her way to being protected for when she’s back on the wards next week.
Why is Public Health England offering Doctors practices £1000 to delay
the second vaccination? I lose track who really is leading all this but clearly the vaccine manufacturers say you need two spaced out over 3/4 weeks. Most GPs agree. I hope when it comes to my turn I am not sold a pup😢. I also see in yesterday’s DT there is a HMG , not NHS , suggestion that some treatments or surgery may not happen depending on your age or life expectancy. These are scary times we live in. Who the heck do you believe😥
the second vaccination? I lose track who really is leading all this but clearly the vaccine manufacturers say you need two spaced out over 3/4 weeks. Most GPs agree. I hope when it comes to my turn I am not sold a pup😢. I also see in yesterday’s DT there is a HMG , not NHS , suggestion that some treatments or surgery may not happen depending on your age or life expectancy. These are scary times we live in. Who the heck do you believe😥
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Sounds very unbelievable that but who knows these days? Sounds odd to me I knew they'd been asked to delay the second jab yes but scrap no.
I’ve not seen anything about such an incentive payment. Could it be that they are trying to get the GPs to drop the second one for the elderly top cohort in order to free up capacity for single dose and enhance the weekly figures. Rationing of treatment to one extent or another isn’t new and in these difficult times it’s not unexpected. Three years ago cataracts were downgraded to a single eye. Yet in 2015 my wife had her bad eye done and the specialist decided to do the half reasonable eye to give her much better overall vision. Medics are daily making life or death decisions in the ICU over if there’s one ventilator and three patients ........
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One of the lead scientists on the Oxford/Astra Zenica vaccination team was interviewed on Radio 4 this morning.
As far as I can recollect as I was doing other things at the time ;-
He was asked about the increased delay between 1st and 2nd doses and if there was any clinical evidence to support the increase.
He replied that as part of the O/AZ trials a range of delay period were investigated. and I think I recall he said that shorter delays did not speed up the development of maximum immunity, the best results were when the period was 3 to 11(?) weeks and the data suggested full immunity of up to 95% was still achieved.
He went onto say that this did not surprise him, becasue this pattern of efficacy was fairly typical of many other viral vaccines, and it relates to the way the body responds. He also said that whilst he had not closely studied the data from the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines it would not surprise him if those vaccines also had similar efficacy with extended interval periods.
As far as I can recollect as I was doing other things at the time ;-
He was asked about the increased delay between 1st and 2nd doses and if there was any clinical evidence to support the increase.
He replied that as part of the O/AZ trials a range of delay period were investigated. and I think I recall he said that shorter delays did not speed up the development of maximum immunity, the best results were when the period was 3 to 11(?) weeks and the data suggested full immunity of up to 95% was still achieved.
He went onto say that this did not surprise him, becasue this pattern of efficacy was fairly typical of many other viral vaccines, and it relates to the way the body responds. He also said that whilst he had not closely studied the data from the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines it would not surprise him if those vaccines also had similar efficacy with extended interval periods.
Thanks for that Prof.
I‘ve reached the stage I don’t know who to believe. Do you as a scientist type Prof believe extending the time frame between each jab is acceptable?
I‘ve reached the stage I don’t know who to believe. Do you as a scientist type Prof believe extending the time frame between each jab is acceptable?
There is as yet no scientific evidence based in large trials that extending the interval between doses is beneficial. The FDA is quite specific on this point ( 05-01-20) and at present have no plans to follow suit. But the Oxford one did conduct limited trials on longer periodicity. Whilst the first dose does give the bulk of the protection the second dose adds some extra protection but is believed to extend the vaccines beneficial protection, but again no longer larger trials have been concluded. This is one of the restrictions placed on the pharma companies by developing a vaccines so quickly compared to the traditional longer timescale approach. Here’s a BMJ link. Also there’s another link that discusses if a vaccinated person can or cannot continue to spread the virus once their immunity has built up. Again the jury is out.
https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n18
https://www.menshealth.com/health/a34877118/coronavirus-spread-after-vaccination/
Having given up my PhD when my wife became “with child“, and it wasn’t such good fun as being an undergraduate, this simple marine engineer isn’t qualified to judge immunological actions. But we are in uncharted waters and will be until the breadth of knowledge normally associated with vaccine development is available. But we can’t stand around and wait.. 😷😷😷😷
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I am not in a position to express an informed opinion about the efficacy of extending the interval between doses. Only those who have access to the data and understand in more detail the way these vaccines work can do that.
I can express a personal opinion, which is based on the actions of the gov't and the risk of the backlash if they have got it seriously wrong.
Previously the reasoning behind wanting to extend the interval was to enable a greater proportion of the population to receive some protection crucially leaving less of the population at risk compared to having a small proportion with a high resistance leaving a more significant proportion of the population still at risk.
And the second reason is the consequence of the first, having a majority of the population with some resistance means less people may need to be hospitalised, and for those that still need to be hospitalised, the seriousness of the disease may be lower further reducing the impact on the NHS.
Unlike otherclive, I do think we should wait at least until the bulk of the population have some immunity before pushing the limits.
Prof
Where did I say or even intimate that I would push limits. Since lockdown 1 our family have abided by government restrictions and guidelines in principle and in spirit. i think your sleight is completely untoward has have been so many of yours when commenting on this virus.
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My view is that those who have had the first jab and have appointments for their second within the three week timescale should go ahead. Then the subsequent patients having their first jab, would be booked for their second jab 12 weeks ahead. Why waste GP surgeries valuable time on what is a relatively small percentage of patients compared to the 13-15 million in tranches 1-4. Also with it being an ongoing system short notice cancellations would also mean short notice new appointments for those being given the jabs 12 weeks apart. Likely to lead to crossed wires and no shows.
Clearly those who think up such mad cap ideas have never lived in the real world.
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I think it was your final para.
“But we are in uncharted waters and will be until the breadth of knowledge normally associated with vaccine development is available. But we can’t stand around and wait.. 😷😷😷😷”
Not sure that the emojis make a difference. ☹️
John
The nation isn’t standing around and waiting, agree with them or not just look at the actions in hand. My own view is that they are necessary but should have been taken earlier. We curtailed our Christmas well before the government announcement and our actions went even further. If it was my booking for the Wales on 26 March then that was made in early November last year. I’m not that naive that I didn’t understand that it may not go ahead but if restrictions are relaxed and it can go ahead then we would still plan to go, as we did last year when restrictions were relaxed. Realistically it does look unlikely and we are also talking Wales here. But to wait until the bulk of the population is vaccinated is totally unrealistic on so many fronts as “ bulk” is a subjective term that pays no regards to the resistance of those who have had Covid, doesn’t recognise those who don’t want the vaccine, nor to the well being of the economy or the wider health and mental needs of the population.
I suppose if they all keep coming in and none go out the French will need them back soon.
Well it seems to me, belatedly, I am a dinosaur, the proverbial has hit the fan. Thanks Prof and Clive and others for your views. I appreciate they are views , no different to the boffins, who are also struggling to say the right answer.
My local The Red Lion is unlikely to reopen until June imo.
I suspect many local pubs will disappear. Sad yes. Note the caravan sites are yet again taking the brunt of lockdown. Let’s hope they do survive so us guys can use them later this year once vaccinated.
My local The Red Lion is unlikely to reopen until June imo.
I suspect many local pubs will disappear. Sad yes. Note the caravan sites are yet again taking the brunt of lockdown. Let’s hope they do survive so us guys can use them later this year once vaccinated.
But just what is the ‘right answer’. The very best scientist, professors, W.H.O. Etc.. Are, like journalists and others. Just giving their opinions.
Personally I like to examine the provenance of the information and am happy to accept that which is provided by SAGE and the continually changing government interpretation of that advice. I also accept that it it has to be continually changing as that is the nature of the beast. Other information/comments, I take with a large pinch of salt.
So far, despite newspapers and TV trying to suggest ‘it’s confusing’. I have found it to be clear. As has everyone I have spoken to. Even though, following the rules for my family members who are working and have children to school, is far harder for them than for us oldies. Far from easy, but not confusing.
John
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