Why dont manufactures store a spare wheel under a trao door accessible from inside the van a la ,i think, Avondale yonks ago ?. Its no fun trying to remove a spare on the alko thingy when stopped on the narrow hard shoulder of a French Autoroute with HGVs steaming past your rear end at 60mph. I know , been there, twice !
Spare Wheel
- Thread starter SwingLowJim
- Start date
Avondale only did that for a few model years, then reverted to underfloor access.
The floor torsional strength is a vital part of the chassis strength, together with the steel chassis "wishbones" and cutting a large hole in it would have required substantial strengthening around the hole to make up for the loss of strength.
It's obvious really, that the spare should be refitted to withdraw the other side for continental trips - but it's too much bother to change it and then change it back when you come home.
The floor torsional strength is a vital part of the chassis strength, together with the steel chassis "wishbones" and cutting a large hole in it would have required substantial strengthening around the hole to make up for the loss of strength.
It's obvious really, that the spare should be refitted to withdraw the other side for continental trips - but it's too much bother to change it and then change it back when you come home.
We have a 2004 Avondale, with the spare in the van under a trapdoor. As you say, it's a much better idea than scrabbling around on the road. I can't understand why more manufacturers don't do it.
I've often wondered why they don't make it so the spare can be removed from the back of the 'van then it wouldn't matter which side of the road you were driving on. I guess it must be to do with the chassis design but I'm sure that problem could be overcome.
Mel
Moderator
In one of the vans that we got into in the nec, I forget which one ( No you cannot claim 55 quid), the spare wheel was under the fixed bed. Not sure if that was a good thing or not.
Mel
Mel
A number of fixed-bed Swift models have the spare wheel secured under the bed, which to me is much better than the Al-Ko affair. You can swap the side that the wheel comes out of on the Al-Ko mounting, BUT, say you change it for Continental use, and during the long tow (which we would have) to Dover you get a puncture? It is about time that the system was addressed.
As for mounting the spare wheel in the front locker, that was something that most manufacturers moved away from in the UK many years ago because of excessive nose-weights. Many caravanners have difficulty in keeping nose-weights low enough for their cars (75-85 kg being an average, and caravans having a maximum of 100 kg even if the car's is greater) as it is without the spare wheel in there too.
As for mounting the spare wheel in the front locker, that was something that most manufacturers moved away from in the UK many years ago because of excessive nose-weights. Many caravanners have difficulty in keeping nose-weights low enough for their cars (75-85 kg being an average, and caravans having a maximum of 100 kg even if the car's is greater) as it is without the spare wheel in there too.
Everything in a caravan layout affects where the centre of gravity is - it's the distance from there to the wheel axis that determines noseweight.
It doesn't matter where the spare wheel is mounted AS LONG AS the engineers took it into account when positioning the axle/wheels.
Remember that every single different layout of furniture, needs a complete engineering calculation done - but fashion demands from customers determine layouts, not the engineers !!
It doesn't matter where the spare wheel is mounted AS LONG AS the engineers took it into account when positioning the axle/wheels.
Remember that every single different layout of furniture, needs a complete engineering calculation done - but fashion demands from customers determine layouts, not the engineers !!
That's very true Roger, but my personal experience is that perhaps the engineers don't always take things (like spare wheels) into consideration. They certainly hadn't the last time I owned a caravan which had its spare wheel in the front locker.
NigelHutson said:
I do accept there a difference between the way caravans should be designed and reality !
Our van has a recess in the floor moulding in the front locker to take a spare wheel, but the wheel needs to be behind the axle to lower the high nose weight.
It's generally recognised Bailey and some others are nose heavy at point of departure from the factory.
Take the fixed bed models. Mine is loaded to the gunnels with some heavy weight kit.
The noseweight for us is 110kgs.
As Roger says you make your own adjustments.
So the spare wheel can be mounted anywhere providing the correct noseweight is factored in.
Also in the unlikely event of a deflation why is it not possible to crawl to a safer location for a wheel change?
Take the fixed bed models. Mine is loaded to the gunnels with some heavy weight kit.
The noseweight for us is 110kgs.
As Roger says you make your own adjustments.
So the spare wheel can be mounted anywhere providing the correct noseweight is factored in.
Also in the unlikely event of a deflation why is it not possible to crawl to a safer location for a wheel change?
Mine has travelled inside the van over the axle for many years and many, many thousands of miles without any problems.
With regard to changing a wheel on Autoroutes, (or any other road) for me that is a big no-no. That's what I pay ADAC for!
With regard to changing a wheel on Autoroutes, (or any other road) for me that is a big no-no. That's what I pay ADAC for!
It sounds Ok running (even slowly) with a flat tyre, but this was 'one' of my experiences! (Had Tyron bands on too)
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I have never had a spare wheel/tyre for my van, until earlier this year...
I've towed since the 1960's and so far have never had a puncture or blowout or any such trouble with the van.
In June this year I began to harbour gloomy thoughts along the lines of....
either :
1 after all these years without carrying a van spare, it was unlikely that I would need one in the future
2 or alternatively that my luck was probably about to run out!
Having had a good run for my money I decided to get not only a spare tyre but also a spare wheel to fit it to as well (they were not so easy to find for 18 year old caravans, but whilst away in the van on holiday I called in on a motor home dealer, who came up trumps.
My van has both a purpose built well, and a reinforced securing bracket for the spare wheel in the front locker (standard fitting on my ABI) and wonder of wonders the spare fits in beautifully. There is an effect of course on the nose weight, but this is easily dealt with by adjusting the position of other heavyish weights such as the electricity hook up cable and the number of tools I carry (that seem to escalate each year.... ) a little bit of self discipline as to the tools necessary.... and a reasonable nose weight is achieved easily.
I'm not sure that I would be up to changing a wheel at the roadside, any more... but hopefully if the worst came to the worst the RAC would be able to help me out..... I certainly wouldn't fancy changing a wheel myself on any fastish road let alone a motorway or dual carriageway.... I did have to stop once on a fastish single carriageway when my drivers side extended mirror suddenly became wobbley, and needed fixing,... it only took me 30 seconds or so but the rush of air when large lorries went by was nearly enough to blow me off my feet!
Regards to all
paws
I've towed since the 1960's and so far have never had a puncture or blowout or any such trouble with the van.
In June this year I began to harbour gloomy thoughts along the lines of....
either :
1 after all these years without carrying a van spare, it was unlikely that I would need one in the future
2 or alternatively that my luck was probably about to run out!
Having had a good run for my money I decided to get not only a spare tyre but also a spare wheel to fit it to as well (they were not so easy to find for 18 year old caravans, but whilst away in the van on holiday I called in on a motor home dealer, who came up trumps.
My van has both a purpose built well, and a reinforced securing bracket for the spare wheel in the front locker (standard fitting on my ABI) and wonder of wonders the spare fits in beautifully. There is an effect of course on the nose weight, but this is easily dealt with by adjusting the position of other heavyish weights such as the electricity hook up cable and the number of tools I carry (that seem to escalate each year.... ) a little bit of self discipline as to the tools necessary.... and a reasonable nose weight is achieved easily.
I'm not sure that I would be up to changing a wheel at the roadside, any more... but hopefully if the worst came to the worst the RAC would be able to help me out..... I certainly wouldn't fancy changing a wheel myself on any fastish road let alone a motorway or dual carriageway.... I did have to stop once on a fastish single carriageway when my drivers side extended mirror suddenly became wobbley, and needed fixing,... it only took me 30 seconds or so but the rush of air when large lorries went by was nearly enough to blow me off my feet!
Regards to all
paws
Before getting to the main theme, I must just stick up for engineers. It is likely that spare wheel position is more dictated by desiginers who may or may not be 'engineers'. Certainly my long experince woth touring caravans indicate there is and has been a great lack of 'good engineering practice' in favour of fashion and cost. Look at any caravan and you will find many instances where a little thought let alone good engineering would have improved useability and servicability at little or no extra cost. I will refrain from the 'engineer' or 'Engineer' debate, but as a Charterd Engineer in both Mechanical and Instrument & Control Engineering I naturally have quite firm views.
My present van has an underslung spare wheel, but in a carrier which cannot be changed to the other side. My previous van had the spare in the front locker, making the nose weight far too high for anything other than a 4x4, so I carried it in the car when in transit. My 1992 Swift Corniche carried the spare in a small vertical locker in the rear panel; not ideal place for a heavy item but supremely practical for access. For some reason the rear panel appears sacrosanct with no intrusions of lockers etc. these days.
But at least we get a full sized spare not just a skinny or worse an aerosol of goo and a pump.
Fortunately, the incidence of blowouts or other incidents requiring tyre change are pretty rare. In my own case once in over 40 years, and I wonder if those (rightly) concerned withthis topic are equally exercised about the 'spare' of their tow cars ?
My present van has an underslung spare wheel, but in a carrier which cannot be changed to the other side. My previous van had the spare in the front locker, making the nose weight far too high for anything other than a 4x4, so I carried it in the car when in transit. My 1992 Swift Corniche carried the spare in a small vertical locker in the rear panel; not ideal place for a heavy item but supremely practical for access. For some reason the rear panel appears sacrosanct with no intrusions of lockers etc. these days.
But at least we get a full sized spare not just a skinny or worse an aerosol of goo and a pump.
Fortunately, the incidence of blowouts or other incidents requiring tyre change are pretty rare. In my own case once in over 40 years, and I wonder if those (rightly) concerned withthis topic are equally exercised about the 'spare' of their tow cars ?
Ray - I think it's the lack of engineers in the caravan industry that's the big problem, not that's there's a shortage but because the industry doesn't want to employ them - because they'd want to do things properly!
Several years ago, when I worked for a living as a Collision Investigator, we attended a double fatal collision involving a caravan with a punctured tyre. The circumstances were that the offside tyre had punctured, and so they driver stopped in the nearside lane of a dual-carriageway road (as far over to the left as possible), and started to prepare to change that wheel. His wife was stood between the car and caravan seemingly keeping an eye out for him and possibly believing that the caravan would provide some protection.
The traffic was generally passing by without any trouble, but along comes 44 tonnes of artic and drives through the lot, killing both people in the process. The cars behind the artic had seen the caravan and moved over to the offside line, and couldn't believe that the truck didn't move over too. On the morning, it was slightly misty, but there was still at least a quarter of a mile view (and the caravan was in view for that length). The truck driver was convicted of Causing death by Dangerous Driving x 2, but that will never bring those two people back.
Now the sad fact was that firstly, the verge to the nearside was very flat and wide enough to have accommodated the car and caravan, and the ground was very hard, so supportive enough too, but only a few hundred metres further ahead was a rest area where they could possibly have limped to and done the change in complete safety. The signs for that were clearly visible in the photographs that we took.
The point is, that no matter how safe someone might think they are, you can never account for the reactions (or not) of other motorists. Personally, I'd rather completely ruin a tyre (and a wheel if necessary) to get to safety.
The traffic was generally passing by without any trouble, but along comes 44 tonnes of artic and drives through the lot, killing both people in the process. The cars behind the artic had seen the caravan and moved over to the offside line, and couldn't believe that the truck didn't move over too. On the morning, it was slightly misty, but there was still at least a quarter of a mile view (and the caravan was in view for that length). The truck driver was convicted of Causing death by Dangerous Driving x 2, but that will never bring those two people back.
Now the sad fact was that firstly, the verge to the nearside was very flat and wide enough to have accommodated the car and caravan, and the ground was very hard, so supportive enough too, but only a few hundred metres further ahead was a rest area where they could possibly have limped to and done the change in complete safety. The signs for that were clearly visible in the photographs that we took.
The point is, that no matter how safe someone might think they are, you can never account for the reactions (or not) of other motorists. Personally, I'd rather completely ruin a tyre (and a wheel if necessary) to get to safety.
Thanks Roger, exactly my point, although there is an overall shortage of engineers in engineering roles. If you've got what it takes, there are far higher financial rewards in banking etc. but fortunately for relatively few there's more to life than money.
NigelHutson said:
Nigel, Not one I have seen but I am very well aware of the danger of stopping in these circumstances and would prefer to find a layby if it happened to me.
Ray
Hi Jim,
This is Stacie on the Practical Caravan team, hope you're well?
I think you have raised a good point which might raise opinion with others. Therefore I wondered if you would mind me using this post as a short letter in the magazine?
Many thanks, Stacie
This is Stacie on the Practical Caravan team, hope you're well?
I think you have raised a good point which might raise opinion with others. Therefore I wondered if you would mind me using this post as a short letter in the magazine?
Many thanks, Stacie
PaulT said:
One of the problems is the extra weight involved due to the floor not being able to suspend the load so the design would weigh more and then there is the cost, but anyway I have a idea :woohoo: so there could be a modification to mine over winter
as it is possible to put the spare wheel in the same area of the van floor as it would be if fitted from the side of the van.
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