Student Riots

[Dustydog]

[*]Cambridge University student Charlie Gilmour, son of Pink Floyd guitarist David Gilmour, apologised for climbing the Cenotaph, a memorial to Britain's war dead, calling it a "moment of idiocy". He studies history and hadn't heard of the Cenotaph nor what it represents.

The idiots who attacked Charles and Cammila's car are lucky to be alive. The bodyguards were on the point of drawing their guns to protect HRH. That is what bodyguards do. And to think these students are so bright!

 

[Soozeeg]

I don't suppose they went with the intention of doing all those utterly stupid and disrespectful things (well, I presume MOST of them didn't), I guess they just got swept along with the mood and adrenaline. And of course they're not all students - the 'rent-a-mob' gang have muscled their way in, as usual.

Wonder what the parents of any of those who can be seen on TV or in the papers doing stupid stuff and can be clearly identified by their families, will have to say?

I can understand the students wanting to protest at the fees rise, particularly when they feel betrayed by their MPs (not that I know much about any of that), but they're certainly not doing themselves any favours with their crass stupidity.

 

[Surfer]

The sad part about it is that it is only a minority of students out of millions that are protesting as ther are many hard working students who are dedicated to getting good grades and appreciate the opportunity to move into higher education. These ones that are rioting are probably those who don't want to spend the next 20 years paying back theri booze money. Ungrateful little barstewards! Unfortunately as we are human we tend to generalise and lump all students in the same category.

 

[OmOnWeelz]

Have to say that Dave Gilmour is one of the wealthiest people in the country and he has given more than his fair share to charity. His son is unlikely to be worried by uni fees even if they were 20k a year. Just another oik out for a day of bad behaviour.
If these student are all so clever they would have noted that Gordon Broon and limp Mili's crew over spent and blew the family silver so the cupboards bare. Student riots would have been over in a flash with water cannon on the streets in the current weather, remove the rights of a University place for any caught rioting would also help.
But it was a nice touch for Charlie boy to turn up and get in touch with his people, you would have thought that he'd have jumped on the car roof and given the crowd a few words of wisdom on the error of their behaviour

 

[LMH]

As if Dave Gilmore's son wouldn't be able to afford the fees anyway.

It is absolutely disgraceful that this government has increased the fees to such a level and I fully supported the initial demonstrations (been there, done that in a previous life), however the scenes we have witnessed is nothing more than a mob of violent savages running riot.

I'd like to know how Prince Charles and Camilla ended up in the middle of all this. Very strange indeed. I have to admit, I have a conspiracy theory in my head on this one. Just doesn't make any sense, the future King of England being driven through a mass demonstration with thousands of angry demonstrators.

Haven't any of these students thought about the implications of having a criminal record if and when they eventually seek employment?

Lisa

 

[Soozeeg]

Haven't any of these students thought about the implications of having a criminal record if and when they eventually seek employment?

Lisa

I don't think they have Lisa, as I said above I think they just get swept up in it all. Let's face it, students (well, young people in general) aren't really known for being able to think ahead or consider the consequences. There will of course be the odd exceptions.

As for Prince Charles and Camilla being caught up in it all......well, I've read the papers and news reports online this morning and there's all sorts of theories swirling about. Apparently (if you believe what's written) their police outriders didn't hear the warnings as they had their radios on the wrong channel (what??!?!?!!!), and Prince Charles insisted on going in that particular car. And the window on Camilla's side of the car got accidentally opened, allowing some idiot to lean in and prod her in the ribs with a stick. Whatever the truth of that, she must have been terrified, poor woman. Well, she was - you can clearly see the fear on her face in the news reports.

What must it have been like for the crowds of Christmas shoppers, families with children, who'd gone for a happy fun day out?

 

[Dustydog]

Apparently 1 in 3 18 year olds now go onto University. It was less than 1 in 10 in my day.
Whatever the student borrows for their education is only repayable at the maximum rate of 9p in the £. Payment only starts when the graduate starts earning more than £21k, Thus earning £21,500 that works out to £4.00 a month. The previous outgoing system had a repayment threshold of £16k So in that situation the student on £21,500 will be repaying £52.00 a month. Loans will be written off in 30 years rather than the previous 25 years.
On paper it does seem the new system may well be more advantageous than the old.
So what are they moaning about?

 

[OmOnWeelz]

You also have to consider the costs of policing demonstrations and rioting students. The more they kick off the more it costs and the less there is for education or anything else. No doubt some of the police have been raking in nice fat overtime payments as well as usual with these events.

 

[Parksy]

You also have to consider the costs of policing demonstrations and rioting students. The more they kick off the more it costs and the less there is for education or anything else. No doubt some of the police have been raking in nice fat overtime payments as well as usua with these events.

If the police have indeed been 'raking in nice fat overtime payments' then good luck to them because they deserve every last penny.
All that the police have tried to do was to uphold the absolute right of the students to protest whilst trying to ensure that the commercial life of the City of Westminster was uninterrupted whilst becoming the focus of mob violence themselves.
A tour of duty in Afghanistan might help to teach one or two of these poor little rich kids exactly what the Cenotaph in Whitehall represents.

 

[Chris_Hyde_Cheshire.]

A tour of duty in Afghanistan might help to teach one or two of these poor little rich kids exactly what the Cenotaph in Whitehall represents.

Well said Parksy

 

[Soozeeg]

If the police have indeed been 'raking in nice fat overtime payments' then good luck to them because they deserve every last penny.

Yes, well said on that too. Some of the police have been coming back to their stations covered in paint and god knows what from the contents of litter bins thrown at them, they've been bruised, battered and cut, not to mention exhausted having just worked a shift of 18 hours. How do I know? My brother is one of them.

 

[JonnyG]

"1 in 3, 18 year olds now go to uni" Me being a little slow on the uptake. So i assume 1 in 3,18 year olds is a reference to those that stay on at school past 16, and do A levels and not 1 in 3 of all 18 year olds? because frankly there are hardly enough real careers to cater for the large numbers staying on at the moment and if it was 1 in 3 of ALL 18 year olds then we would be in a position where you needed a degree to have any chance of doing an apprenticeship !
Which we already may have that situation, given that these days you need a degree for almost any post that 20 years ago did not require one.
We need labour skills not book worm skills..................

And whilst we are at it, schools and uni's are still open, is it so easy now to pass, that pupils of all age 15/16/17/18 year olds ect can afford days off to demonstrate and still get the marks required?.clearly school work standards are not what they were in the old days!

 

[Chris_Hyde_Cheshire.]

We need labour skills not book worm skills..................

I agree entirely, however if a school / college leaver cannot get a four or five year apprenticeship they can always condence all the hard word into one of these 6 week courses in plumbing, plastering electrics etc. Once they have their NVQ (National vocational qualification) they are then free to advertised as qualified, rip folk off and make a right royal ****-up of things!!!. Dont get me wrong though, these NVQ's are ok in some careers but we all know it is experience that makes a good tradesman, not a piece of bloody paper saying they have got a NVQ. When it comes to these NVQ's I sometimes think they have stand for "not very quick" judging by some of the people I have come across.
It is not my intention to offend anybody, and if I have I apologise now, but as I said in my opinion they are ok for certain carears.
Anyway, that is my December rant over and done with. If I dont post again, I hope you all have a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year whether you are at home or in the caravan.

Chris. (Who as well as my apprenticeship has several NVQ'S)

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

There's nothing wrong with peaceful protest but the demonstrations were hijacked by left wing anarchists intent on wanton destruction. Why do certain demonstrators need to cover their faces? They know the police video the scenes for trouble makers that's why. The government should outlaw anyone who covers their face in such situations and if a law was passed the police could target these people if covering their faces.
The police protecting Charlie should have fired a shot in the air at the very least but preferrably they should have shot the one trying to break into the car in the leg. No doubt his parents would be on TV wailing about the police and their innocent little boy, the £ signs ticking over in their heads as they thought of the compo.
The country is too soft and despite what the Tories promised it's going to get softer with senile Clarke as prisons minister in charge.

 

[OmOnWeelz]

If the police have indeed been 'raking in nice fat overtime payments' then good luck to them

No concern about police getting paid to do a difficult job at all, good luck.
But now the recent action means that extra police and riot control groups will be stood or sat around for hours on end awaiting trouble and costing millions of our money.
Protesting nearly always leads to trouble, you have MP's and Councillors and a vote use them rather than join a rabble on our streets. Football teams have to pay for Policing, if you want to protest your group should pay for Policing or pay an insurance to cover Police and the costs of the emergency services.

 

[Parksy]

Please be assured that I personally have absolutely no intention of joining a rabble on our streets Om

I can't envisage hordes of militant caravanners marching on Westminster but with the massive increases in fuel prices one could never rule it out entirely. We could use windbreaks as barricades and hurl the contents of casette toilets over those who we hold grievances with.
Britain's parliamentary democracy is founded upon the tenets of freedom of speech and the right of free assembly is one not to be given up lightly. If freedom of expression costs us as a free society money then that has to be the price of democracy.
The Students Union have disassociated themselves with the violent 'protesters' so if anarchists decide to cause trouble then it's right and proper for the police to be on hand to deal with them in the appropriate manner.
Tuition fees will naturally polarise public opinion but let's not forget that elections were held but those elected appear to have clearly reneged on the pledges upon which they were elected.
A vote for a canditate who promises one thing and who then does exactly the opposite when their hands are on the levers of power is a betrayal of those who elected these candidates in the first place.

 

[JonnyG]

"A vote for a canditate who promises one thing and who then does exactly the opposite when their hands are on the levers of power is a betrayal of those who elected these candidates in the first place."

One could be led to believe this is a new phenomenon, I gave up believing what MPs promised in1979, hadn't left school yet!and indeed my opinion of them has never really changed.

I do like the breakdown of the topic in question, "students grants" Dont know who brought them in, but lets just do a quick breakdown shall we, The tory.lib dem loan system is indeed better than the one that labour left us with, so its an actual improvement for all concerned? but OK everyone in this case [students] want higher education for nothing. I must congratulate them , welcome to society everyone wants.
also I worry about our education system apparently those students who are questioned and indeed old enough to vote, always claim they voted Lib dem! the smallest of the 3 major parties so it should stand to reason they would only be a minority in a power share and student fees would hardly be that high up the agenda of power sharing!
That means these students typically marching are hardly the brightest ones at uni or indeed planning to go, and worse still haven't learnt what even i had at 16!
They say they are "our future" hopefully that doesn't include the marchers.......

 

[OmOnWeelz]

Parksy Moderator.
If after 10+ years of caravan travelling you promissed a group of us from this forum dinner when you got back home as you expected your kids to have kept the larder as full as when you left.
How would you feed us when unbeknown to you there was no food and your kids had also spent all your money partying and your credit was max'd out?

'Freedoms' are very jolly jibes when they can be afforded. The UK can't afford the policing of protests and demo's. Police have to be paid, when the budgets come in and they've overspent on Riot controll by milllions people will be groaning that there are even less police.

 

[Parksy]

This topic will last longer on the forum if we try to keep party politics out of it. We all have our own views on who did what to whom and when and why it was done but as has been said elwhere, that's not for here.
I suppose the protesting students fancied a break from watching Countdown as soon as they woke up so perhaps the non violent ones ought to be commended, just imagine how dim the non marching ones must be.
One thing about tuition fees, if the students now have to fork out for their education it might concentrate their collective minds on their studies rather than the pursuit of good times, the use of illicit substances and staying in bed until after lunchtime

 

[Parksy]

Parksy Moderator.
If after 10+ years of caravan travelling you promissed a group of us from this forum dinner when you got back home as you expected your kids to have kept the larder as full as when you left.
How would you feed us when unbeknown to you there was no food and your kids had also spent all your money partying and your credit was max'd out?

'Freedoms' are very jolly jibes when they can be afforded. The UK can't afford the policing of protests and demo's. Police have to be paid, when the budgets come in and they've overspent on Riot controll by milllions people will be groaning that there are even less police.

Any price is worth paying for freedom of speech and expression Om, many of our forefathers gave their lives to defend it.

 

[Parksy]

I meant to address the earlier point about feeding the forum, to be honest if I had the answer I wouldn't be wasting my time writing stuff on caravan forums I'd join the gravy train at Westminster. Without getting into party politics those with the keys to this metaphorical larder have all raided the biscuit tin before dinnertime with the expenses scandal no matter which corner of the table they sat on so it's a bit rich for any of them to ask us or our children (the students) to go without when they clearly didn't.
Still, there was no evidence of 'wrongdoing' so that's ok then.

 

[OmOnWeelz]

Any price is worth paying for freedom of speech and expression Om, many of our forefathers gave their lives to defend it.

So Parksy you would see more troops die in Afghanistan because the money needed for equipment is spent on Policing students or you'll give up your pension or leave your wife without a hip replacement or your grandchild to die as their is no money for the operation it needed.
So that really is the bottom line whatever any parties politicians or the British ruling classes have been up to.

 

[LMH]

As you sow so shall you reap.

 

[RogerB]

Have to say that Dave Gilmour is one of the wealthiest people in the country and he has given more than his fair share to charity. His son is unlikely to be worried by uni fees even if they were 20k a year. Just another oik out for a day of bad behaviour.
If these student are all so clever they would have noted that Gordon Broon and limp Mili's crew over spent and blew the family silver so the cupboards bare. Student riots would have been over in a flash with water cannon on the streets in the current weather, remove the rights of a University place for any caught rioting would also help.
But it was a nice touch for Charlie boy to turn up and get in touch with his people, you would have thought that he'd have jumped on the car roof and given the crowd a few words of wisdom on the error of their behaviour

 

[RogerB]

Another moronic comment from an apparent Royal hater