Surprised at lack of comment on caravan industry economic issues.

[Buckman]

People don;t pay the same VED. New cars are very different for the 1st year. "expensive" cars are different for the next 5. Cars older than 2017 vary by CO2. Commercial vehicles have another structure (that I don't even pretend know).
The government will only loose out if they set the mileage rate or weight multiplier incorrectly.
Evasion is rife in all uses. Use of lower duty diesel in vehicles that are not allowed to use it is another form. Making a tax hard to evade is a good idea, but nothing will be foolproof.
Maybe the system uses the MOT to track them. Or maybe they carry on paying VED, and only newer cars use road pricing.
Which is , I think, why road pricing is inevitable.

I meant the whether you have the exactly the same car i.e. Ford Fiesta and one does only 100 miles a year and the other 100000 miles they both pay the same VAT! Therefore the income to the government is greater through the current VED system than using a mileage indicator otherwise the government would have implemented the system years ago.

 

[Buckman]

Why would it cost millions? Every year cars over three have to attend an MOT centre where the milage data is already collected. It would not be massively difficult to use that data to generate a a road tax valuation. It would mean that all cars including new ones would have to read by an approved assessor.

If the basis of a charge is miles driven, then fairest way is to simply set a milage charge of say 2p per mile and multiply that by the number of miles travelled. That way those who use the most pay the most. If that does not generate the necessary income, the government can set the the cost per mile to a higher amount.

So after 3 years and at the first MOT, the owner of the new car is hit with massive charges. What if the car is sold within the first 3 years. Then of course if a car sits on the forecourt for several months, but is taken on test drives using garage plates, does the new owner pay for those additional miles? What if the car has multiple drivers with only one registered owner? Too many "what ifs".

 

[Sam Vimes]

Nissan Leaf's are well known for having poor battery management. They are the exception rather than the rule.

You're probably right but I think there's a general perception that understanding the life of an EV battery is important. Which is why I believe manufacturers spell out the warranty T&C's for the battery. Typically 8years/100,000 miles. The cynic in me thinks that with all the telemetry in cars that there will be get out clauses. Too frequent rapid charging;ditto over charging; ditto under charging etc.

 

[Sam Vimes]

The system in New Zealand that used to be just for Diesel Cars, i.e pay per mile, has now been extended to EVs. You buy in advance a certain amount of miles and then this gets checked against what you actually did when it's time for the WOF (read MOT in the UK).

I would imagine that change of ownership is taken into account somehow.

 

[otherclive]

So after 3 years and at the first MOT, the owner of the new car is hit with massive charges. What if the car is sold within the first 3 years. Then of course if a car sits on the forecourt for several months, but is taken on test drives using garage plates, does the new owner pay for those additional miles? What if the car has multiple drivers with only one registered owner? Too many "what ifs".

Our multiple drivers are blissfully unaware of what a fuel station is. So no change there.

 

[Tobes]

I meant the whether you have the exactly the same car i.e. Ford Fiesta and one does only 100 miles a year and the other 100000 miles they both pay the same VAT! Therefore the income to the government is greater through the current VED system than using a mileage indicator otherwise the government would have implemented the system years ago.

Again - not necessarily. If the VED is £190, a road pricing is set at 2p per mile, your example yields a result of £2,002 to the exchequer.

If the average mileage is 8,000 pa and current VED is £200, setting the mileage cost at 2.5p per mile yields the same return for average users paying average VED.

Job done?

The decision not to implement years ago, is (I suspect) in part mechanics (how to collect, what if you drive abroad or off road), and part political will (making previously "free" things "paid for" is unpopular, and does not collect votes.

 

[Tobes]

So after 3 years and at the first MOT, the owner of the new car is hit with massive charges. What if the car is sold within the first 3 years. Then of course if a car sits on the forecourt for several months, but is taken on test drives using garage plates, does the new owner pay for those additional miles? What if the car has multiple drivers with only one registered owner? Too many "what ifs".

Mileage is recorded at ownership change today. That can be used to generate a bill, just like when you read a meter when you move house.

For new cars, you can have the information registered each year - outside of MOT. It's also perfectly possible to set up a monthly or weekly, or daily update that can issue more frequent bills to reduce massive bill events. Very similar to smart meters.

 

[RogerL]

Again - not necessarily. If the VED is £190, a road pricing is set at 2p per mile, your example yields a result of £2,002 to the exchequer.

If the average mileage is 8,000 pa and current VED is £200, setting the mileage cost at 2.5p per mile yields the same return for average users paying average VED.

Job done?

The decision not to implement years ago, is (I suspect) in part mechanics (how to collect, what if you drive abroad or off road), and part political will (making previously "free" things "paid for" is unpopular, and does not collect votes.

Road pricing doesn't need to replace VED, although it could - our present VED system is quite adequate for all types of vehicles.

Road pricing needs to replace the fuel duty that IC vehicles presently pay every time they refuel.

Presently VED raises £7.4 billion while fuel duty raises £29.3 billion including VAT on the duty.

 

[Buckman]

Again - not necessarily. If the VED is £190, a road pricing is set at 2p per mile, your example yields a result of £2,002 to the exchequer.

If the average mileage is 8,000 pa and current VED is £200, setting the mileage cost at 2.5p per mile yields the same return for average users paying average VED.

Job done?

The decision not to implement years ago, is (I suspect) in part mechanics (how to collect, what if you drive abroad or off road), and part political will (making previously "free" things "paid for" is unpopular, and does not collect votes.

I think you are completely misunderstanding my post. Do you have access to a national vehicle database showing vehicle mileages as I do not have that access so I am using purely guess work? I took into consideration that the majority of cars probably do less than 12000 miles a year and at 2p per mile that is £240. If you only do 8000 miles a year that is £160 so a loss to the treasury of £80. These are examples and not cast iron proof etc. Just simple guess work.

You're probably right but I think there's a general perception that understanding the life of an EV battery is important. Which is why I believe manufacturers spell out the warranty T&C's for the battery. Typically 8years/100,000 miles. The cynic in me thinks that with all the telemetry in cars that there will be get out clauses. Too frequent rapid charging;ditto over charging; ditto under charging etc.

If you sell second hand cars for a living, under CRA 2015 would you be keen on selling a 10 year old EV when there is a possibility the battery could fail within 6 years or it could last another 10 years? It would not be hard for the consumer to claim a new battery a couple of years after purchase. A very grey area for second hand dealers.

 

[Dustydog]

If you sell second hand cars for a living, under CRA 2015 would you be keen on selling a 10 year old EV when there is a possibility the battery could fail within 6 years or it could last another 10 years? It would not be hard for the consumer to claim a new battery a couple of years after purchase. A very grey area for second hand dealers.

I’ m not sure that is correct🤔

My take on CRA 2015 is that it also seeks to be reasonable to the seller.

Surely in your scenario the purchaser cannot recover more than their original purchase price?