Thetford fridge not working on gas

[ProfJohnL]

Under CRA 2015 it does NOT matter whether the dealer mentioned the fridge or not.
Can I suggest that you refresh yourself on CRA 2015 particularly S9 & 10 and also 11. See https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/contents/enacted

It all comes down to the description of the goods, the goods have to be as described and any known faults mentioned in the description become part of the contract. There are occasions where other legislation does affect it such a when selling motor vehicles where in the UK any motor vehicle retailed must be in a roadworthy condition.

If the description said the fridge was faulty, and no other agreement had been made to fix it, then the failure of the faulty fridge is part of the contract. The buyer cannot then claim to have the fridge repaired, becasue there was no contract to repair it.

In this case it seems the dealer (or at least someone in the dealer's employ) knew the fridge was faulty before the caravan was handed over. Let's assume the failure to repair it was a genuine oversight, I hope the dealer will take reasonable steps to get it repaired.

But if not the evidence of the check sheet would be enough to invoke the CRA - Unless the dealer was aware of the fault and advised the customer who then agreed to accept the fault without it being fixed. That acceptance would become part of the contract of sale.

If you apply your interpretation of the CRA, then it would be impossible to sell anything that was second hand.

 

[Jaydug]

I don't know how long these things can be expected to last.

My caravan is 22 years old and the fridge is original. Since I bought it in 2011 up till 2020 (when Covid arrived) the van was in constant use in Southern Spain every year from mid October till beginning of March. Then also the normal UK use during the summers. So a lot of use.

 

[Buckman]

If you apply your interpretation of the CRA, then it would be impossible to sell anything that was second hand.

When you buy a car, caravan or any other item second hand from a dealer there is no requirement for the dealer to itemise or detailed everything associated with the item.
When you buy a caravan the dealer is selling it to you as a complete item and stuff like fridge, motor movers etc are part of the purchase and there is no requirement to mention those individual items and whether they are working or not.
Not sure what you do not understand about being "fit of purpose" and I am beginning to think that perhaps your ujnderstanding of CRA 2015 is flawed? However none of this helps the OP who has the choice of whether they want to go back to the dealer or not. At that point it can be decided by the dealer how they want to resolve the situation.

 

[Dustydog]

SOGA was replaced on 1st October 2015 by the CRA which considerably broadens the protection given to Consumers. Just to be “pendantic “ we should stop using SOGA as a reference as it may confuse some people.

CRA without doubt applies equally to the sale of new or used items.The right to reject within 30 days is well documented. To such an extent that if it transpires the goods don’t suit they can be rejected. In fact most sellers offer a full money back within 30 days no quibble. I need to review the Act but time doesn’t permit this week.

I doubt very much the workshop check sheet was legally incorporated into the Contract of Sale, it would of course need to be acknowledged as such by both parties.

As far as the OP goes let’s see what his engineer says. Let the Dealer know and ask for reimbursement . I wonder what the OPs view is on the contractual document for purchase/sale?

It seems to we should have a new thread purely on CRA.🤪

 

[otherclive]

SOGA was replaced on 1st October 2015 by the CRA which considerably broadens the protection given to Consumers. Just to be “pendantic “ we should stop using SOGA as a reference as it may confuse some people.

CRA without doubt applies equally to the sale of new or used items.The right to reject within 30 days is well documented. To such an extent that if it transpires the goods don’t suit they can be rejected. In fact most sellers offer a full money back within 30 days no quibble. I need to review the Act but time doesn’t permit this week.

I doubt very much the workshop check sheet was legally incorporated into the Contract of Sale, it would of course need to be acknowledged as such by both parties.

As far as the OP goes let’s see what his engineer says. Let the Dealer know and ask for reimbursement . I wonder what the OPs view is on the contractual document for purchase/sale?

It seems to we should have a new thread purely on CRA.🤪

The term “don’t suit” isn’t applicable to the CRA 2015. That implies that if the Buyer doesn’t like them they can be rejected, which isn’t the case. There have to be a substantive reason(s) to reject.

Consumer Rights Act 2015

www.legislation.gov.uk

However you can cancel and return goods bought online under the Consumer Contract Regulations within 14 days of receipt. My grandson had a BMW 5 series PHEV delivered on Thursday and rang me last night as he doesn’t think the electric range is usable compared to his four month old 3 series touring PHEV. So after a long discussion he’s sending the five series back and buying his partner a diesel 3 series touring non PHEV as her journeys to university and work are suited to a straight diesel non PHEV power train.

 

[Dustydog]

Thanks Clive. I did say I needed to review but agree with you. I may be slightly askew , just thinking about the number of retailers , on line and shops etc who do give a 30 day no quibble return policy. Just checked , there is no legal requirement to refund a correctly in good order item under CRA. A large number of retailers across the broad spectrum do offer the no quibble return after 14 or 30 days.

 

[ProfJohnL]

When you buy a car, caravan or any other item second hand from a dealer there is no requirement for the dealer to itemise or detailed everything associated with the item.
When you buy a caravan the dealer is selling it to you as a complete item and stuff like fridge, motor movers etc are part of the purchase and there is no requirement to mention those individual items and whether they are working or not.

Buckman is correct in so far there is no requirement for a retailer to detail everything included as part of an original product, if that is what the dealer is selling, and as such they buyer can expect all the internal equipment inside a caravan should be working correctly. I have no disagreement there.

But one of the problems with selling secondhand goods such as a caravan, sometimes a particular part may not be functioning or a surface is scratched and for whatever reason the retailer may not be able to repair or replace it. The reasons do not matter in this situation. Provided the seller tells or records the the non functioning or damaged part and clearly informs the potential customer, and the customer accepts the situation before they agree to purchase, the non functional part becomes part of the contract, and the customer cannot then claim to have the part repaired or replaced.

The question for the OP is did you discuss the non function of the fridge with the dealer before you agreed to purchase the caravan? If it was discussed, what was agreed to do about it, if it wasn't discussed, then the dealer cannot deny the problem and they are liable to repair or replace.

 

[Buckman]

But one of the problems with selling secondhand goods such as a caravan, sometimes a particular part may not be functioning or a surface is scratched and for whatever reason the retailer may not be able to repair or replace it. The reasons do not matter in this situation. Provided the seller tells or records the the non functioning or damaged part and clearly informs the potential customer, and the customer accepts the situation before they agree to purchase, the non functional part becomes part of the contract, and the customer cannot then claim to have the part repaired or replaced.

I now understand what you are trying to say but I am not aware of any such restriction in CRA 2015 as item as an entity is then faulty from day one. I would appreciate it if you could direct me to the clause in question as I mahy not have understood it clearly
As far as I am aware when you buying a caravan you are buying one item and not several items therefore either the item is either fit for purpose or it is not fit for purpose and there is no exemption.
I would be grateful if you could clarify as it seems highly unlikely any supplier of any item will state to a customer that part of the goods you are about to buy are faulty and excluded from the contract and not covere by CRA 2015. Thanks.

 

[ProfJohnL]

...
I would be grateful if you could clarify as it seems highly unlikely any supplier of any item will state to a customer that part of the goods you are about to buy are faulty and excluded from the contract and not covere by CRA 2015. Thanks.

If you read and fully understand this sections of the act you quoted to me you would find this:-

Section 9​

Goods to be of satisfactory quality​

​

(1)Every contract to supply goods is to be treated as including a term that the quality of the goods is satisfactory.​

​

(2)The quality of goods is satisfactory if they meet the standard that a reasonable person would consider satisfactory, taking account of—​

​

(a)any description of the goods,​

​

(b)the price or other consideration for the goods (if relevant), and​

(c)all the other relevant circumstances (see subsection (5)).​

​

(3)The quality of goods includes their state and condition; and the following aspects (among others) are in appropriate cases aspects of the quality of goods—​

​

(a)fitness for all the purposes for which goods of that kind are usually supplied;​

(b)appearance and finish;​

(c)freedom from minor defects;​

(d)safety;​

(e)durability.​

​

(4)The term mentioned in subsection (1) does not cover anything which makes the quality of the goods unsatisfactory—​

​

(a)which is specifically drawn to the consumer’s attention before the contract is made,​

(b)where the consumer examines the goods before the contract is made, which that examination ought to reveal, or​

(c)in the case of a contract to supply goods by sample, which would have been apparent on a reasonable examination of the sample.​

The section 2a, b and c permits the seller to detail any element of the product that might make the product less than perfect, and by doing so if the buyer accepts the situation and buys they are agreeing to accept liability for the defects, and they cannot then bring claim against the seller.

Its all about the description the seller gives for the goods.

 

[Buckman]

If you read and fully understand this sections of the act you quoted to me you would find this:-

Section 9​

Goods to be of satisfactory quality​

​

(1)Every contract to supply goods is to be treated as including a term that the quality of the goods is satisfactory.​

​

(2)The quality of goods is satisfactory if they meet the standard that a reasonable person would consider satisfactory, taking account of—​

​

(a)any description of the goods,​

​

(b)the price or other consideration for the goods (if relevant), and​

(c)all the other relevant circumstances (see subsection (5)).​

​

(3)The quality of goods includes their state and condition; and the following aspects (among others) are in appropriate cases aspects of the quality of goods—​

​

(a)fitness for all the purposes for which goods of that kind are usually supplied;​

(b)appearance and finish;​

(c)freedom from minor defects;​

(d)safety;​

(e)durability.​

​

(4)The term mentioned in subsection (1) does not cover anything which makes the quality of the goods unsatisfactory—​

​

(a)which is specifically drawn to the consumer’s attention before the contract is made,​

(b)where the consumer examines the goods before the contract is made, which that examination ought to reveal, or​

(c)in the case of a contract to supply goods by sample, which would have been apparent on a reasonable examination of the sample.​

The section 2a, b and c permits the seller to detail any element of the product that might make the product less than perfect, and by doing so if the buyer accepts the situation and buys they are agreeing to accept liability for the defects, and they cannot then bring claim against the seller.

Its all about the description the seller gives for the goods.

Clearly you have misunderstood those clauses as the "reasonable person is the consumer. If you are still unsure please consult CAB as they offer free advice. The OP purchased a complete caravan which is treated as a single entity.
Anyway not sure why you are banging on about CRA 2015 and whether the fridge was exempted from CRA 2015 as it is highly unlikely any dealer would even try an exempt part of the item they are selling.
Also I think the OP has decided to have the repair done themselves as per an earleir post, but thans for your input and hope the misunderstanding has now been cleared up.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Anyway not sure why you are banging on about CRA 2015

Buckman! You initiated the spectre of the CRA in #36!

If I remember correctly you bought the caravan less than 6 months ago from a dealer so it is still under warranty using CRA 2015! Take it back to the dealer for the repair. BTW the dealer should have serviced prior to selling it?

 

[Dustydog]

Buckman! You initiated the spectre of the CRA in #36!

Surely Buckman was only trying to give the OP a steer on getting his fridge fixed foc. 😉

 

[Buckman]

Buckman! You initiated the spectre of the CRA in #36!

However by this time the OP has probably gone into hiding when another post misinterpreted CRA 2015.

 

[Christhecaravanner84]

Right! Had the fridge looked at by an engineer yesterday. First guy spent a long time tinkering about, basically trying all the different things I had already tried. Eventually he called the boss in to look at it and as I had come to suspect, it was an issue with the solenoid. They fitted a new one off the shelf and it works!

Just to clarify, the appointment was the same day I was leaving for a trip to Wales. Not ideal, but I wanted this resolving ASAP. Stopped the night before at a site close to the engineers the night before as it was first thing in the morning.

On arrival to site in Wales, alas it wouldn't light, but I tried to light it before levelling the van. Once van was level, it lit on the second attempt. Ran it on gas for a couple of hours, then changed to electric. Later in the evening decided to have another go at lighting it and it stayed lit. So I think the issue is resolved. It's also had a full service. Came to £162 in total. They had the van for about four hours, but they only charged me for two, didn't charge any extra for the part.

I've been in touch with the deealer and they haven't completely dismissed the ide of paying for the repair dispite a bit of argy-bargie back and forth via email. I'm going to send them the invoice and ask that they pay it, minus the hour for the general service.

This message is being posted from a very lovely site in mid-Wales.

I'm very pleased that it's sorted. I'll be off to the Royal International Air Tattoo later in the month and won't have EHU, so glad I'll be able to keep those beers cool. 🍺

Finally, there has been lots of replies to this thread, thankyou eeryone who has taken the time to respond.

 

[otherclive]

Right! Had the fridge looked at by an engineer yesterday. First guy spent a long time tinkering about, basically trying all the different things I had already tried. Eventually he called the boss in to look at it and as I had come to suspect, it was an issue with the solenoid. They fitted a new one off the shelf and it works!

Just to clarify, the appointment was the same day I was leaving for a trip to Wales. Not ideal, but I wanted this resolving ASAP. Stopped the night before at a site close to the engineers the night before as it was first thing in the morning.

On arrival to site in Wales, alas it wouldn't light, but I tried to light it before levelling the van. Once van was level, it lit on the second attempt. Ran it on gas for a couple of hours, then changed to electric. Later in the evening decided to have another go at lighting it and it stayed lit. So I think the issue is resolved. It's also had a full service. Came to £162 in total. They had the van for about four hours, but they only charged me for two, didn't charge any extra for the part.

I've been in touch with the deealer and they haven't completely dismissed the ide of paying for the repair dispite a bit of argy-bargie back and forth via email. I'm going to send them the invoice and ask that they pay it, minus the hour for the general service.

This message is being posted from a very lovely site in mid-Wales.

I'm very pleased that it's sorted. I'll be off to the Royal International Air Tattoo later in the month and won't have EHU, so glad I'll be able to keep those beers cool. 🍺

Finally, there has been lots of replies to this thread, thankyou eeryone who has taken the time to respond.

A good outcome, hopefully your dealership will do right by you.

 

[Christhecaravanner84]

To say that I am cheesed off would be an understatement.
It worked when I tested it numerous times whilst away. Worked when I got back to storage. Went over today to prep van for 3 nights at Royal International Air Tattoo next week and the poxey thing has decided to stop working again, no matter how long I hold the button down. Well that’s that trip out the window because I’m not going away in a heatwave with no fridge. I’m going to replace the piece of ****. It can’t be relied upon and already I’m having to cancel trips because of it. I’m not interested in getting into a long and drawn out battle with the caravan dealer, I just need a dependable fridge. Already spent too much time and money on it.

 

[Dustydog]

To say that I am cheesed off would be an understatement.
It worked when I tested it numerous times whilst away. Worked when I got back to storage. Went over today to prep van for 3 nights at Royal International Air Tattoo next week and the poxey thing has decided to stop working again, no matter how long I hold the button down. Well that’s that trip out the window because I’m not going away in a heatwave with no fridge. I’m going to replace the piece of ****. It can’t be relied upon and already I’m having to cancel trips because of it. I’m not interested in getting into a long and drawn out battle with the caravan dealer, I just need a dependable fridge. Already spent too much time and money on it.

Hang on Chris

Before you miss the Fairford Air Show let’s think?
Can the fixing engineer see it asap?
Gas supply?
Sad to miss the show. How about a 12 v cool box ? Mine will go down 4 deg C?

 

[Christhecaravanner84]

Hang on Chris

Before you miss the Fairford Air Show let’s think?
Can the fixing engineer see it asap?
Gas supply?
Sad to miss the show. How about a 12 v cool box ? Mine will go down 4 deg C?

Def won’t miss the show, worst case I’ll just go for the day, I have a ticket booked.

I am thinking about using a cool box I have. I have a 100 watt solar panel so hopefully that would keep it going. Of course I’ll have to think about where I position the cool box. Possibly outside in the shade, 12v cigarette lighter extension may be required. Who knows it may decide to work when I get on site?

I’m going to look at replacing the fridge . It’s my cynical experience with intermittent problems like this, you just keep trying to fix it and the problem comes back . How much more money do I spend trying to fix it?

 

[Hutch]

Chris as DD states, a cool box works well , we have one that cools to 20 c below ambient temp, 240 and 12 volts keeps cool for 8 hours if you only open it every other hour, if you have frezzer blocks your fine, don't miss the airshow. . Your fridge probably only needs a new Circuit board. Mine did , bad side £170 .

 

[Christhecaravanner84]

Chris as DD states, a cool box works well , we have one that cools to 20 c below ambient temp, 240 and 12 volts keeps cool for 8 hours if you only open it every other hour, if you have frezzer blocks your fine, don't miss the airshow. . Your fridge probably only needs a new Circuit board. Mine did , bad side £170 .

I've got a reasonably effective coolbox. Bought it from Aldi at the end of first lockdown. Went for a few days to Wales, stayed in a Premier Inn when the bar was still closed, so bought it to keep my beers cold. Not sure what it;s current draw is. I can find out. It's been useful as a beer cooler on recent trips with EHU. Might be a challenge fitting in essential food and booze, but it's certainly an option.

It's about £750 for the N4097 which replaces my fridge, I've read a couple of horror stories about N97 fridge from people who have had numerous parts replaced and not got anywhere. I want to be able to use my caravan off grid, It seems to mee that I need to get a new fridge for a guaranteed fix and future reliability. I've already spent £160 on the thing, spend a bit more on a non guaranteed repair and I'm probably looking at half of the cost of a new fridge. I have some spare money put away so I think I'm going to splash out for a full replacement, rather than keep spending out for repairs which may or may not permanently fix the problem. Its just annoying that it's been fine yet suddenly decides to pack up again when I'm due to go away. Who knows, after a bit of jolting about, it might decide to work again when I get on site . Either way, I think this thing is a potential money pit and not worth spending too much on.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I am frankly very surprised that a burner/gas valve issue on this type of fridge has not been able to be resolved. Many appliances use a virtually identical syststem and is well proven as its possible to get, and normally highly reliable.

However I can understand Chris' dilemma of the cost of failed repairs vs long term reliability.

 

[Dustydog]

I am frankly very surprised that a burner/gas valve issue on this type of fridge has not been able to be resolved. Many appliances use a virtually identical syststem and is well proven as its possible to get, and normally highly reliable.

However I can understand Chris' dilemma of the cost of failed repairs vs long term reliability.

Looking at the previous posts there maybe some recompense against the Dealer? Secondly the work carried out by the engineer appears to have solved the problem short term only. I think Hutch May be on the right track. It’s possible the pcb has a dry joint causing the intermittent fault.
I have to agree with Chris the time comes when you have to say enough is enough and stop throwing good money after bad👍

 

[Christhecaravanner84]

Looking at the previous posts there maybe some recompense against the Dealer? Secondly the work carried out by the engineer appears to have solved the problem short term only. I think Hutch May be on the right track. It’s possible the pcb has a dry joint causing the intermittent fault.
I have to agree with Chris the time comes when you have to say enough is enough and stop throwing good money after bad👍

I didn’t think this model had a PCB as such. If it’s something like a dry solder issue, I could fix that myself.

 

[Christhecaravanner84]

Don’t want to do the victory dance just yet, but I think I may have solved it. Having read the that the selector switches on these fridges can be problematic, I gave the switch a good wiggle about and got the fridge to stay lit. When wiggling the switch about again, it went out. I found the terminals which feed the thermocouple and I’ve now bypassed the selector and it’s sat there quite happily burning away. Only drawback is I if push fridge back into place I don’t think I’ll be able to turn it off. I’ll have to turn it off at the gas .

I don’t think I’ll be able to get a new selector fitted in time for the air show, so I’ll leave keep it bypassed and replace at leisure.

 

[Dustydog]

Good news Chris 👏. In the interim spray liberally the switch internals best you can with Electrical Contact Spray. We live six miles from Fairford.