tow ball !!!

[colin-yorkshire]

hi all,
here is a good one for you to debate, it's a long story but I try and keep it short.
yesterday evening on the way back from the garden centre, I saw a hedgehog crossing the road, [no jokes thank you] so not wanting to spread it all over the road, swerved, [well moved over a bit] so as to miss it.
about 1/2 a mile down the road, I was aware of a blue flashing light in the mirror, so I put on the hazards and pulled over, it was a patrol car and stopped behind us, this police chappie then proceeded to give me a telling off for swerving all over the road [a gross exaggeration] and asked if I had been drinking "nope" said I, well when was the last time you had a drink, he said, "about 35 years ago" it's true but I don't think it went down too well.
well I'm going to breath test you anyway. he did and of course it was negative, so why the swerving about he asks,
I said did you not see the that poor hedgehog in the road, I moved over to miss it, suppose you would just have run over it, again I dont think this went very well.
so while I'm sitting in the back of this locked patrol car, he and his constable accomplice searched the car, and gave it a very good check over, when they came back, he stated I was committing an offence, because the tow ball is obscuring the number plate.
now this is the first time I have heard this in 40+years of towing, so added that it could not be illegal, because.
A. you could still see all the numbers and letters.
B, it is a type approved tow bar, so in specification from both the car manufacturer and EU legislation and is fitted with an Alko ball which is also type approved,
C, the numberplate is of standard size and fitted in the place the car manufacturer intended it to be.
D. the only way to reduce the height would be to fit a drop plate, but the bar is not designed for one of these fitted. plus with the ball 3in lower it would not be in specification for the EU height legislation.
yet he wasn't having any of it. it is not right he said and gave me a ticket to get it altered within the next 7 days
Now I know the police do not like a smart ass, [I'm no forelock tugger]. but he just picked the wrong guy to stop.

however I now have the problem of changing something that has been fine for over 4 years and I cannot see a way to alter it without removing the tow ball, is there some new rule I have missed about cars only being allowed removable balls or is it just that. a load of"" what do you all think.

 

[Martin24]

Has it passed it's MOT each year? Well there you go then.

 

[Craigyoung]

I would off thought take to a tow bar specialist and get him to give you something to say it's not illegal , if it was an obstruction I'd off thought it wouldn't off passed the MoT . Produce your MoT to them .
A few years ago I was stopped by two female officers in a police car , not traffic cops though , I was driving the wrong way round the car park and all she said was my tow bar was obstructing a number , same as you arguing height and professionally fitted , she advised me to sort it , no producer though , I left it the way it was ! They never said owt bout wrong way round car park !!!

Good luck

Craig .

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

My factory fitted removable tow ball on my recent Astra obscured the number plate when fitted and running solo. It didn't matter when towing of course, but needed to be removed when not towing.

Prior to that I had a Vectra of which the tow ball itself didn't obscure the number plate, but the bumper protector did. Remedy - bought a removable bumper plate - click here.

 

[Sproket]

Hmmmm ...

More here section 43

 

[KeefySher]

Make an appointment to see the duty inspector at the police station the constable was from. Take your MoT and your car. Explain the way you were treated, as it appears from your account that the plod was over zealous.

What reason would they have to search a vehicle driven by a 60 odd year old?

What car do you have? Is it an aftermarket towbar?

 

[Craigyoung]

I agree with keefysher, make a complaint off how you were treated and take your car documents down with you .

 

[Sproket]

Colin

Can I ask if you have legal cover on your car insurance policy?? If so the best advice I can give you is to contact them as soon as possible and get their professional advice. Personally I think the officer has over-reacted and if all the letters and numbers of the plate can be read at the required distance without being obstructed by the tow ball you are not committing any offence.

 

[MichaelE]

Just a thought? Your mot doesnt say if you have a towbar fitted or not so they could say that you take it off for the mot? Where do you have to take it to prove that you have altered it?
Why would he give you a ticket if the towball wasnt obscuring the number plate? Surely its more than his job is worth making it up?

 

[Craigyoung]

I had a Vauxhall corsa with a tow bar for 12 years with it on and their plate position is situated low, only that once did I get told it obscured a digit on the number plate that time, not once did it fail MoT through it though , I think they've just been picky with you , hope it turns out ok in the end .

Craig :huh:

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi guys,
thanks for the replies and suggestions, in way I'm sorry he did not issue a ticket for it then I could have argued my case in court, but think he was unsure of his standing so just wrote a compliance notice.
according to Spoket's link it is an offence to obscure the plate but, there is a defence if you have taken reasonable steps to be within the legislation.
the bar was fitted to the car when I bought it, it is a Witter but had no ball on it, I have had the car 4 years and it has passed 4 MOT's, the ball covers about 1 and 1/2in of the plate in the middle. sorry no pictures, I don't have a photo bucket account, but the letters and numbers can be clearly seen.
today I have raised the number plate the maximum amount to the top of the mounting and gained 1/2in so it now covers only 1in, I may try and remove the Alko extended neck ball and fit a standard one to see if that clears it, I no longer need the Alko ball none of the other trailers need one.
if it does I will just ignore the notice. but will be writing a few letters in the next few days.
been looking around at other cars since this happened surprising how many are the same, with the number plate fitted to the rear bumper.
if this was a real problem I would have thought the only approved bars would have removable balls.not fixed.
a bit of hassle over nothing but there you go, at least this experience has taught me something I was not aware of.so some good may come out of it.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I have had an MOT failure on a number plate, due to the poor adhesion of the white or yellow backing sheet to the transparent front panel allowing water and debris between and staining it.

There are regulations that cover the colour and form of the plate and characters, because the authorities are relying more and more on ANPR systems to monitor for tax and insurance dodging, so they are keen to ensure number plates do conform so the systems can read plates consistently. This is why on the Gov't web sites and publications they say the number plate should not be obstructed - but as we have seen on other topics, the gov't publications for public consumption don't always reflect the underlying detail of the relevant Acts of Parliament.

Regarding the MOT testers responsibility, in

http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_630.htm
States under the method of inspection point 1.
"1. Check that there is a registration plate both at the front and the rear of the vehicle, and check each one for security and condition.

d. faded, dirty, deteriorated or obscured, (for example by a towbar so that it is likely to be misread or is not easily legible by a person standing approximately 20 metres to the front/rear of the vehicle)."

Whilst it doesn't specify it, you would have to assume that would be on horizontal ground and the observer's eyes at a height of at 1.5M. I would guess that if the tow ball obscured any of the number plate's characters, that would be fail.

Incidentally when I got the replacement number plate, I used some exterior grade transparent adhesive tape to seal the edges of the plate to prevent water & dirt ingress and after 6 years it's still fine.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

post deleted, link not working

 

[MichaelE]

Type approval has nothing to do with the number plate, it is purely down to the correct approved fixings to the car. If if covers the number plate then thats down to you to change/alter?
Just because everyone else is driving about with a towbar that covers the number plate doesnt make it right? Look at at all the illegal number plates and the people with bike carriers obscuring rear lights and number plates etc?
I think you have wound him up and now you have the inconvenience of trying to sort out a problem?
I did something similar when i was alleged to have been speeding no proof ie no speed gun just him on his own , i wasn't as he got the wrong car but instead of saying yes sorry i understand officer when he lectured me i argued and ended up wasting my life back and forth to station.
You live and learn.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

sorry Michael I could not agree with that, yes an incovenience but my view is if you do not challenge something that you believe to be wrong, and just accept that everything you are told is correct, is a very slippery road, allowing the representatives of law enforcement to make up the rules as they go along just because you tend to be one of the clever squad to me is not an option, he stopped me for swerving thinking I was a drunk driver when this turned out not to be the case, he and his colleague went on a hunt to find something else.#. they could have just left it there but no, there job seems to be to assume everyone is guilty of something it is just a matter of finding what it is.
he came up with the number plate as there was nothing else wrong with either me or the car funny how it became an issue only when there was nothing else, and for 4 years it was considered fine by every other officer that must have seen it. indeed every Meriva fitted with a bar and fixed ball has the same problem to some extent, I tried to post a link from the witter site but it doesn't work.

this leads to the main issue of type approval you say that it has nothing to do with the number plate, and it is up to you to alter it, not so, altering it changes the type approval which by it's self is not allowed.
in order to get type approval a tow bar it has to conform to a basic design approved by the manufactures of both the bar and the vehicle manufacturer in accordance with EU rules, and fit in such a way that it does not affect any other safety or vehicle systems, and without making modifications to the basic vehicle to which it fits, it takes a long time to achieve the type approval with exhaustive tests and calculations. but this issue seems to have been overlooked if indeed it is an issue it wasn't until Saturday evening was it.

would have been better just to run over whatever is in the road then mr plod could go catch real criminals, but saying sorry for something that's not my fault, no chance, would see hell freeze over first. just not my style.

 

[ProfJohnL]

sorry Michael I could not agree with that, yes an incovenience but my view is if you do not challenge something that you believe to be wrong, and just accept that everything you are told is correct, is a very slippery road,

Oh how I agree - .............

 

[MichaelE]

Ermmm you have said your towball obscures your number plate? Always has so i guess its ok then, my mistake?

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi all, just an update, found out some more information I didn't know. hmy: so I got and fitted a standard ball, seemed a bit better but not perfect, on monday I sent an e-mail about the bar, asking for advice and solutions to the perceived problem of obscured number plate using the fixed ball tow bar, I also called into the main vauxhall dealer, to ask the same questions.
At vauxhall they told me that on my model Meriva and Corsa together with some Astra models they only fit or recommend to fit the removable swan neck bar, with the drop down plug plate.
yes "but why is the fixed bar "type approved" if it is unsuitable :S they said well is isn't unsuitable, but because the rear loading area is high, and the risk of injury due to a fixed ball they only recommend the removable type. .
then today I received a reply from the tow bar maker in which one of their technical bods stated that it should be fine as it is but if a extended neck ball was fitted it could obscure the plate, in this event it is acceptable to fit a small 50mm drop plate to the bar, :woohoo: :woohoo: this would not alter the bar weights on the ball, as the mounting flange is "U" shaped and not oblong. :cheer: :cheer:.

so there we are, standard ball fitted with 2in drop plate, now a clear number plate :lol: should keep mr plod happy,

 

[ProfJohnL]

...
then today I received a reply from the tow bar maker in which one of their technical bods stated that it should be fine as it is but if a extended neck ball was fitted it could obscure the plate, in this event it is acceptable to fit a small 50mm drop plate to the bar, :woohoo: :woohoo: this would not alter the bar weights on the ball, as the mounting flange is "U" shaped and not oblong. :cheer: :cheer:.

so there we are, standard ball fitted with 2in drop plate, now a clear number plate :lol: should keep mr plod happy,

But does that keep the towball when loaded within the 350 to 420mm height window?

 

[Hutch]

But what about if you require to have an Alko towball, due to having an Alko towhitch, will that obscure the number plate, ?. Maybe getting to technical, from what height does a numberplate have to be read, and at what distance?.

 

[MichaelE]

You only have to fit an alko towball if the head of the alko stabiliser doesn't clear the car?

Interesting reading ?

Why does EC94/20 mean peace of mind for me?

In order for a towbar design to be granted approval status, it must meet rigorous design and testing criteria. The towbar must attach to the vehicle at the specified mounting points nominated by the manufacturer. Once the design has been accepted by the VCA (Vehicle Certification Agency), it must pass a push/ pull test. The push/pull test simulates the stopping and starting of a vehicle towing a caravan or trailer. The towbar must be tested for 2,000,000 cycles. At the end of the test, the towbar must show no signs at all of deformation or cracking. The test is very thorough and very harsh ensuring that all approved towbars are safe (when used correctly).

Also this?
Number Plate Obstruction
It is an offence to obscure the rearmost number plate on a car or car/caravan combination with your towbar, or any associated equipment, such as a bumper protection plate. If your tow ball or any accessory fitted to it overlaps the number plate, it must be removed when you are not towing. Where the height of the number plate means this problem cannot be avoided, consider fitting a detachable tow bar, to avoid the difficulty of having to regularly unbolt a
fixed tow ball.

You may want to challenge something you believe is wrong but facts are facts.
It does show that the directive has nothing to do with the number plate as I pointed out and the obscuring of the number was technically illegal as the policeman pointed out.
You now need to speak to the mot people and ask why are you passing my car when the the towball is obscuring the number plate ?

 

[Gafferbill]

......the simple fact is that it is an offence not to clearly display a registration number on the rear of a vehicle and this must be illuminated during the hours of darkness. The plate must conform to the standard speciation.
Obscuring the plate with a tow bar is just one way of falling foul of this law.
Every day you can see this law being broken for one reason or another but that does not alter the facts.
Colin has good reason to be miffed with Vauxhal's number plate position. ....the tow bar fitter.......and his MOT tester.

 

[MichaelE]

......the simple fact is that it is an offence not to clearly display a registration number on the rear of a vehicle and this must be illuminated during the hours of darkness. The plate must conform to the standard speciation.
Obscuring the plate with a tow bar is just one way of falling foul of this law.
Every day you can see this law being broken for one reason or another but that does not alter the facts.
Colin has good reason to be miffed with Vauxhal's number plate position. ....the tow bar fitter.......and his MOT tester.

Oh how I agree - .............

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi guys.
they say you learn something new every day how this is true, indeed until this occurred I had no idea there was a problem with the set up, one would have thought that during the design and manufacture process, of both the car and the tow bar, as well as the type approval process someone would have said hang on there's a problem here, and took steps to change the design, but no it is left to the end user to sort it out, a type approved bar and ball fitted to a type approved car in the position intended should be enough to ensure that all the legalities are covered.
the information out there does not really help, indeed even the government website is not absolutely clear, [often remarked on by the Prof] as it states the rear number plate should not be obscured and the numbers and letters clearly visible, yet although part of the plate is covered [the yellow bit at the bottom between the numbers and letters] all the charactures of the plate were clearly visible, indeed the part covered by the ball is where the car dealer usually puts an advertising sticker or reflective strip. so should in theory have been be fine. :dry: :dry:

at least mine is now sorted although there must be 1000's out there, in the same boat, I have measured the ball height with the drop plate and standard ball, centre of ball to floor 380mm unloaded, with 15stone stood on the ball, [far more than the 50kg max limit] 365mm, so it will do for me, I only now tow small lightweight trailers.
at least some good came out of it all this and the information to others may be helpful, but as this all came about because of a humble hedgehog, I hope it has a happy and long life. :lol: :lol: :lol: .

 

[Raywood]

Difficult to know what to advise but the Police would have to prove to the satisfaction of a court that the tow ball was in an illegal position. Frankly I cannot see the Crown Prosecution Service, assuming you are in England, taking it any further but you never know. I assume the police did not photograph the tow bar so it would now be imposdible for them to say if it is now the same. You could take it to a police station and say it was altered and see what they say, clean it thoroughly though first.