Towing with ESP

JimC · May 26, 2007

I have been reading a thread on UK Kia forum about the use of ESP when towing. After viewing the demonstration of driving too quickly into corners and seeing the effect of the ESP contolling an out of control vehicle its very reassuring if you have it fitted. But will this help at all in contolling a snake or similar? Some have even suggested turning it off when towing.Does anyone have any knowledge on this question?

Regards Jim

Oldfogey · May 26, 2007

ESP? Does this enable you to see round corners?

JimC · May 27, 2007

No its not that good but it certainly gets you through the corners.See this link

www.whatcar.com/news-special-report.aspx?NA=220063&EL=3159817

PC mag has a feature on Al-Ko fitting ESP to some of their chassis.

I was rather hoping some of the techies might reply, perhaps they are all away on this lovely Bank Holiday.

Jim

rob_jax · May 28, 2007

Hi Jim,

This was discussed on this forum in reasonable detail less than 4 weeks ago - a search should locate the thread for you.

Basically there are two types of ESP stability systems fitted to cars and they use the car ABS system to automatically brake wheels and improve stability; the first generation systems brake the wheels in pairs, and the new ESP+ systems brake individual wheels.

ESP+ (VW / Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Opel / Vauxhall and maybe others) has the big advantage to a caravanner of enabling a further ESP mode called TSP or TSA. These are Trailer Stability Systems which modify the ESP response to reduce fishtailing / snaking when towing.

If your car has ESP+ and TSP - at the moment only certain European made cars - then results of German ADAC, Dutch VVV and other motoring organisations or independent testers are truly impressive.

If your car has the old ESP system - then the systems fitted to some cars may help, some possibly may be worse. And you can't retro-fit TSP or TSA to a car with ESP - it doesn't have the underlying ABS sensors.

Robert

Lutz · May 28, 2007

Generally, if a car fitted with ESP+ is ordered with a genuine factory-fitted towbar (as opposed to a dealer-fitted one) it will automatically have TSP or TSA.

Don't confuse this system with electronic stabilisers for caravans, like the AlKo ATC or the LEAS system, though. These act on the caravan brakes whereas TSP or TSA acts on the car's braking system, so the two actually complement each other.

With both systems fitted, it is virtually impossible to get into trouble with instability, no matter how badly the load is distributed inside the caravan or how high the weight ratio is. Even with only one of the two systems fitted, the outfit will be well nigh foolproof.

GeorgeB · May 29, 2007

Jim,

Below is the relevant paragraph in my reply to the TSP question in the "technical" section, read from where it says "and you drive in such a manner as to invoke the ESP whilst towng"

""Although the TSP uses the simular technology as ESP (Electronic Suspension Programming) and utilises the selective braking process, TSP is NOT linked to the ESP, indeed if you have a vehicle with TSP the ESP will probably never come into operation, but if your vehicle has only ESP, or has TSP, and you drive in such a manner as to invoke the ESP whilst towng a caravan, you've already lost control of the outfit and will be extremely lucky if you don't loose it big time!""

Having said all that, my Audi is fitted with ESP (Electronic Suspension Programming) and I never switch it off even when towing, I've even enquired with Al-Ko as to when their ATC will be available, anything that makes it safer to tow can't be a bad thing, but always remember, matching the outfit to the car, loading the van correctly, taking proper account of the nose weight should always be the first course of action, no suplimentary safety system, ESP TSP & ATC can cope with a badly matched & a badly loaded caravan for long

Lutz · May 29, 2007

I don't know where your source got the information from that TSP is not linked to ESP. Of course it is. In fact it needs ESP to work at all. TSP can be considered a 'hang on' supplementary feature added to ESP.

ps: ESP is not "Electronic Suspension Programming" but "Electronic Stabilisation Program" (refer to the Audi glossary)

Lutz · May 29, 2007

Also, you mention (quote) "....no suplimentary (sic) safety system, ESP TSP & ATC can cope with a badly matched & a badly loaded caravan for long".

That is also not true. The system will always cope with the conditions mentioned so long as the brakes don't fade. In critical situations it will deploy well before the actual speed limit is reached and prevent the outfit from going any faster.

JimC · May 29, 2007

I have just read the threads in Technical and they make interesting reading. I have a Kia Sorento XT which has ESP, I am waiting for a reply from Kia Technical to confirm if the system also has TSP. I dont think it does however. If I only have ESP it is debateable from the threads I have read if this would make towing any safer in my case.Thanks to everyone for their input.

Regards Jim

tffwkends · May 29, 2007

im lost ,

est,tsp atc.

im lost,

esp,tsp atc.

Does this mean i cannot tow my caravan,many years ago ,my family consisted of my wife 2children mom and dad in law driving down to cornwall without any idea of towing or caravaning.Twenty seven years later i tow one of the biggest vans legally in this country,i have taken on board all the wisdom of every caravaner i came across,we never hade these abbreviations ,we had at best gross laden weight ,and every time we travelled to cornwall in the early 80s the weight of my car and the weight of my van was cellotaped to the inside of my ford sierra, just in case the cornish police ever pulled us over .ESP,TSP ATC please lets just enjoy , but be safe.

jim

Lutz · May 29, 2007

All these fancy electronic gubbins are only there to make towing more foolproof, Jim. If you're an experienced caravanner and you know how to react in the event of a sudden hazard you may never need them but the idea is to make towing just as safe for a novice who has just taken delivery of his first outfit right on the edge of the legal weight limit, without regard for any 85% weight ratio recommendation, and probably without even ditributing the load properly.

colin(bridgend) · May 30, 2007

ESP - Extra Sensory Perception - what else could it possibly stand for. My wife has been fitted with this for years. She reckons she knows exactly what I am thinking, about to say or about to do.

peter_374235415 · Jun 3, 2007

Hi, I posted a question a few weeks ago regarding my new Passat and the activation of TSP. I have now had the tow bar fitted and the dealer has confirmed that TSP has been activated in my vehicle when towing. The car needs a software download to activate it and therefore it is available in post fitment towbars as well as factory spec'd cars. I presume this will be the case in other cars with the ESP+ system??

Lutz · Jun 3, 2007

Sounds realistic, yes. I can't imagine that any additional hardware would be necessary as this would only increase the number of components on the production line, something which manufacturers try to avoid if at all possible.

chenzhen · May 19, 2016

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Towing with ESP

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