Towsafe , how reliable

Jun 5, 2008
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Visited a local dealer yesterday who very kindly ran my cars details ( VW Golf GT TDI 2004 ) through Towsafe returning the following figures

Kerbweight 1451kg

Max tow 1400kg and max train weight of.I retained the printout for future referance.

Over the pset couple of weeks i have been researching the kerbweight through various sources including whattowcar.com (who didnt have an exact match) with most returning a kerbweight of 1400kg.

Obviously as this is my first venture into caravaning i want to get my weights as close as poss using the 85% rule. Should i use 85% of 1451kg

So my question is how reliable is towsafe ?
 
Jun 5, 2008
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Sorry for the premature post dont know what happened there

Visited a local dealer yesterday who very kindly ran my cars details ( VW Golf GT TDI 2004 ) through Towsafe returning the following figures

Gross 1870kg

Kerbweight 1451kg

Max tow 1400kg

Max train 3270kg

I retained the printout for future referance.

Over the pset couple of weeks i have been researching the kerbweight through various sources including whattowcar.com (who didnt have an exact match) with most returning a kerbweight of 1400kg.

Obviously as this is my first venture into caravaning i want to get my weights as close as poss using the 85% rule.

So my question is how reliable is towsafe ?

Cheers

Jim
 
Jul 9, 2001
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Jim

Kerb weights can vary depending on how it is measured, some methods include a 75 kg driver yet some do not.

The only important figure if you have passed your test since Jan 1997 is the mass figure quoted on your V5 document. Unless you have a B+E test then you cannot tow a caravan with a MPTLM (max weight) heavier than the V5 quoted kerb weight.

For using the 85% guide (guide not a rule), I would use the 1451kg figure as you are never going to be towing the caravan without a driver in the car!!!

Manufacturers (especially in brochures) will quote the lower kerb weight as it then appears the car can carry more stuff!!

To check the towsafe data, inside one of your front doors (of the car) you should have a wight plate and from the figures above, the 1st two figures should be 1870 and 3270 kg.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Hi Jim,

Assuming the figures you have are not to far out, Based on 1451kg KWt an 85% figure would be 1233Kg, and if you used that figure and the KWt was only 1400kg it only represents a ratio 88% and I would not be overly concerned at that.

Zafiral has made a valid point about the driving licence requirements, but in your case you should be fine as your KWt is 1400 (or may b 1451), and the manufacture a max allowed towed mass is only 1400Kg, the limits of the B only category are not exceeded on either the combined maximum Authorised Mass of 3500Kg, (yours would only be 2851Kg tops) or the MAM of the trailer being more than 100% of the cars KWt.

Lets put some facts to bed though. But a small warning there are lots of different acronyms that may appear to be similar, but they can have different absolute meanings - the sooner an EU wide policy of standardisation of these is made compulsory the better.

85% is not a rule. It never has been, it has always been just a guideline derived four or five decades ago before the towing capabilities of cars were part of the type approval process. All manufactures now publish the maximum braked trailer mass their car can handle. This is a legally sustained figure, and it rarely equates to exactly 85%. Most cars are deemed capable of handling 100% or more but some are actually less than 85% and few are 0% in other word not approved to tow anything.

Whilst I pour scorn on the actual 85% figure, (after all why not 75, 90 or even 100%?) the principal behind it is sound. You should always select the lightest possible trailer (for a given application).

Your Kerb Weight (KWt) is unique to your car. Usually cars are heavier than the published KWt figures, due to manufacturing tolerances, and the some of the manufacture fitted optional items. Check your V5 registration document, this may have your KWt or MIRO figure, or take the car to a certified weighbridge and get a print out - however do make sure you only have the items in the car that are set out for KWt or MIRO measurements.

Towsafe along with most other third party information sites use databases where the information has been entered manually. Consequently they do contain some errors, so you should never rely on them as being accurate. You have no way of knowing which figures are right and those that are wrong. As you point out, Whatcar don't have an exact match for your model, so any result based on 'Whatcar' figure may have no relevance to you. You should always check the figures against the manufacturers own specifications. As the driver you are legally responsible for ensuring the outfit is road legal using the wrong data would be your fault.

You mention but did not post the Maximum Train Weight, this is the ultimate figure that must not be exceeded. With some manufactures the MTW (GTW) may be less than the sum of the trailer allowance and the maximum solo vehicle weight. In these cases you have to trade off some load capacity in the car or trailer to get down to the GTW

Only ever use information form third party sites as a possible indication not as an absolute. That applies to this forum, Towsure, Towsafe, Whatcar and all other similar sites.

Whilst weight ratio does impact on the outfits overall controllability, it is only one of several important factors, others include the way the weight is distributed on the trailer, the mechanical conditions of the car and trailer, and in my view the most significant factor is the driving style which includes speed.

I hope I havn't frightened you.
 
Oct 30, 2006
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I have to say I was totally unimpressed with towsure , they gave me wrong info on my 55 plate Honda CRV, I looked into it further and got the right details, wrote to towsure to complain and just fobbed of , you can find the details you need on the engine vin plate and to be honest nothing beats a weigh bridge.
 
Jun 5, 2008
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Thanks for the replies,

The train weight i quoted was 3270kg however on the advice of John L i checked the plate in the car and its states 1910kg and 3310 kg so again some confusion there.

Also on the plate are 1: 1080kg and 2: 0900kg any ideas what these are ?

If i were to weigh my car on a weighbridge would that not just give me the actual weight of the car ?

With regard to driving licences no problems there as i have held the old HGV class 1 licence since the early nintees.

thanks again

Jim
 
Jul 9, 2001
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Jim

The figures from your weight plate confirm the car max tow weight when car full (the difference between the two figures).

The two other figures are the max front axle load and the max rear axle load.

If you take you car to a weighbridge with you (assumption is 75kg) and a 90% full tank of fuel in it then that will give you a kerb weight as used by Practical Caravan (Nigel, Mark or David please correct me if I am wrong). If you wish to use the 85% guideline than take 85% of this figure for your max caravan weight (assuming this is no more than the 1400kg max tow weight).

The difference between this and 1910kg (Gross Vehicle Weight) is the amount of load you can put in the car. NB you have to allow for circa 75kg of nose weight in this figure.

Legally you can then add upto 1400kg towed weight to this figure. This give the 3310kg Groos Train Weight.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Like Zafiral says, if you take your car to a weighbridge with just you inside (EU standards allow 75kg for the driver and miscellaneous items) and a 90% full fuel tank, you will establish the actual kerbweight of your car. This should be more or less identical with Section 4 Item G of your V5c Registration Certificate, if an entry has been made there. Kerbweight is not an absolute figure but specific to each and every vehicle (hence, published figures in brochures or websites can only be a rough guideline).

The 1910kg which you quote is the Gross Vehicle Weight and 3310kg appears to be the Gross Train Weight. The noseweight is included in the Gross Vehicle Weight. Assuming the noseweight to be 75kg and given a towload limit of 1400kg, you could legally tow a caravan with an MTPLM of up to 1475kg.
 
Jun 5, 2008
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Many thanks.

On the V5 , section G it states : Mass in service 1493kg.

Am i correct in thinking this should be the kebweight ? unless any additions are added to the vehicle after it left the factory.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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That is correct, yes. A typical addition may be the towbar which, together with all reinforcements, wiring, fasteners, etc. could easily add another 40kg.
 
Jun 5, 2008
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Based on those figures using the 85% guide i am looking at an MTPLM of around 1270kg.Great that gives me a starting point when looking for the new van

Think i will still use a weigh bridge just for peace of mind.

thanks again

Jim
 
Mar 14, 2005
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The actual kerbweight will always be equal to or higher than what is quoted under Section 4 Item G so you'll be on the safe side if you use that figure.
 
Jun 5, 2008
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Finnaly managed to get the car on the weighbridge , with me in the car and half a tank of petrol the car returned a weight of 1500kg giving me an 85% figure of 1275kg.

Feel a lot happier now that i have deifinative weights to work from, now the hard work of finding the van.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Just shows how reliable the figure in the V5c document is - only 7kg difference between it and what you measured on the weighbridge. Can't get much closer than that!
 

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