Training to become a Caravan Engineer

[Heethers]

Lutz/ Gumbo, hence why companies now choose to fetch in people that have the correct accreditations, not cost effective to have everyone trained in all disciplines or so the financial wiz kids tell us.

You can have multi skilling but only as far as it is deemed to be safe.

Cross the HSE on this at your peril.

I still believe there is training that can be made available to help you with the basics of caravan servicing, it would then be up to the person to look to see if he required other accreditations.

NigelH

 

[SteveW77]

Sorry Gumbo, but there is no mention of caravan servicing in the original post, only training as a "Basic caravan engineer".

I think Lutz, that like me you prefer to have work carried out by someone who has had a proper standard of training, this outlook however seems to be an ever decreasing point of view in this country, whether it is repairs, transportation or even just eating out. It would seem that cost not quality is the overiding factor. This can be perfectly satisfactory, until things go wrong. You can only keep the prices low by cutting corners, poor or non existent staff training, inadequate public liability insurance are usually the first things to feel the pinch. What price a cheap service, when your van bursts into flames because a fault was not found or properly rectified. These thing happen in the real world.

A customer of mine lost his job and decided to take up window cleaning, third day he fell off the ladder throught a

 

[Daveg1]

Sorry Steve W but I strongly disagree.

In my rant I explained that I am paying a lot of money to a franchised dealer to service my caravan and he miserably fails to do the job properly despite the fact that in order to maintain his franchise his employees have had "proper" training. Yet I have no choice but to have my caravan serviced by that franchised dealer in order to maintain my warranty unless I wish to travel considerable distance.

We had exactly this situation with the car industry until they changed and allowed vehicles to be serviced by unfranchised dealers and still allow the warranty to be valid. My car is therefore now serviced by a small garage that I trust and at a fair price to both him and I.

It is certainly not true that you will receive the service that you pay for.

Dave

 

[Lutz]

I agree that an unfranchised dealer need not necessarily carry out a service any less thoroughly than a franchised one, but without minimum training standards the chances of being dissatisfied with the end product are significantly higher.

By the way, Steve, over here one can even do a 3 year apprenticeship as a window cleaner. It's a recognised trade!

 

[paul_374425018]

I agree that an unfranchised dealer need not necessarily carry out a service any less thoroughly than a franchised one, but without minimum training standards the chances of being dissatisfied with the end product are significantly higher.

By the way, Steve, over here one can even do a 3 year apprenticeship as a window cleaner. It's a recognised trade!

Where does the name Lutz come from. I worked with a guy who had a 2nd name of Lutz

 

[Lutz]

I agree that an unfranchised dealer need not necessarily carry out a service any less thoroughly than a franchised one, but without minimum training standards the chances of being dissatisfied with the end product are significantly higher.

By the way, Steve, over here one can even do a 3 year apprenticeship as a window cleaner. It's a recognised trade!

It's both a family name (mainly in Switzerland) and a first name. Apparently it's a corruption of Ludwig and it was made popular by a certain 'Lutz' Long who gained an Olympic silver medal in the long jump before the War.

 

[Surfer]

There is a lot of blathering on thsi thread with very little to do with the original post. In my humble opinion the OP should consider doing an apprenticeship but not for 5 days at a cost of

 

[SteveW77]

It is certainly not true that you will receive the service that you pay for.

I did say in my post as a rule, this does not mean every time or every one will provide proper service, but one thing for sure, no one with out proper training will ever design or build your next new car or caravan for that matter. Desisn and developement have to be paid for, using back street providers does nothing to further developement of new products. Like it or not that is a fact.

Steve W

 

[SteveW77]

There is a lot of blathering on this thread with very little to do with the original post. In my humble opinion the OP should consider doing an apprenticeship

Hi Ian.

As the OP stated he had retired from the Fire service, he may consider that starting an apprentiship is not really what he wants at his time of life.

Steve W

 

[xtrailman]

Strange how such an innocent post can turn into so much heated debate.

But still after a wet day fishing, thank you all for the entertainment.

 

[SteveW77]

Hi Ray.

I don't consider this to be a heated debate, just a frank exchange of views, which everyone is entitled to hold & express. If we all thought the same way, things would never change and life would become very boring.

I feel no ill will towards anyone on this or any other forum, I am sure that most posters feel the sameway, If you never exchange views, how will you know when you are wrong, it does happen sometimes.

Steve W

 

[Daveg1]

Yes, I have enjoyed the exchange of views and it certainly didn't seem heated. I also think that folks wider views on caravan servicing has given Paul further food for thought.

Regards,

Dave

 

[Paul_374423711]

I speak with some authority and knowledge on the subject and as a caravaner who has received both good and poor service.

Fact. There is at present no formal training (aprenticeship)for a caravan service engineer. The skills are self taught or self sought. Current qualification is C & G. You either have it or not. CITO will guide you through what YOU are required to do to achieve C & G. Their own website opens with there is no recognised training and the skills are self taught.

Choices are. Enter a workshop young as a caravan cleaner and maybe after a few years you may be servicing or retrain as a carreer change such as OP/Paul is considering.

There is no legislation re gas etc. other than competence is a legal health and safety requirement. Acops is recomended and an industry benchmark. Corgi is irrelevent for caravans with most Corgi qualified people not having the LPG modauls anyway.

I do not believe any one is saying do a 5 day course and be a fully experienced engineer by day 6. I can not speak for NLA and they are new on the scene and do not have the pedigree or track record. Alternatively though, there is the MCEA (mobile caravan engineers Association) that has been at it for 5 years and have a good reputation. The MCEA foundation course is sold as exactly that, a foundation course. It encourages all persons leaving the course to seek out specialised training and competence and offers direction on where and how and even provides further specialist training for its members. its members have a very experienced support network at least equal to the young lad servicing the caravan in a dealership has with his "qualified supervisor". I beleive all its members have to have PL insurance. Many of its members have C & G, Gas acops, and NCC approval. It also has its own quality standard with an ongoing workmanship standard that is equal to C & G and its members do undergo monitoring and assesments. MCEA trainees are told that there is no substitute for experience but they get the benefit of 100 other members experience, some of whom are amongst the most qualified in the industry. MCEA has a proper conplaints procedure and as independent business persons they either do a good job or they are out of business. Unlike some dealerships if we believe some postings.

My advice is consider it. If you like caravaning then you will love earning a living in the industry. That will make it the best job in the world. But look at it carefully. there is no point in doing a 5 day course and then finding yourself abandened.

Contact CITO or the MCEA. The MCEA course cost a bit more than NLA but you do get what you pay for in life.

I would have more confidence in a level headed person having done a 5 day course than I would in someone whos not done any course at all. There is nothing stopping anyone buying the Haynes manual and tools and just doing it. And how do you know if the lad in the workshop servicing your pride and joy has any formal qualification or training at all! Or if he even has an interest in caravans. To most of them it is just a job and many are journey men. unlike the guy that puts his house on the line to run his own business.

 

[SteveW77]

There is nothing stopping anyone buying the Haynes manual and tools and just doing it.

And that Paul is exactly what is wrong with this country, people get ripped off by fly by night chancers with no qualifications, no insurance cover and no bloody chance of getting satisfaction when they **** up. They just pxxs off and start somewhere else. Unqualified people should legally be banned from trading. There is a mobile caravan engineer working my area who until six months ago was a lorry driver. He may have been a good lorry driver, but from what I have seen of his work, he is a blxxdy poor caravan engineer, who is taking hard earned money off of people and giving next to nothing for it.

Steve W

 

[ProfJohnL]

There is I believe considerable confusion surrounding the titles that some people use in connection with their trade. In Britain there is no clear distinction between the capabilities of people who use the title's of 'engineer', 'mechanic', or 'technician' The title is used more to denote a persons position of seniority in an organisation rather than an expression of their proven abilities.

In many countries there is a clear ladder of progression and the title differentiates between the grades in terms of qualifications, experience and scope of work. The title of Engineer is often only bestowed after extensive evidence has been gathered, and it is revered in the same way as Doctor, or Professor etc.

In the context of UK caravanning, I fell the following differentiations could be appropriate:

Apprentice

This is an employee who has no recognised engineering qualifications but who is working and studying towards achieving them. Usually under the guidance of a recognised trade body that sets the agenda. They will work on the maintenance and simple repair of caravans under supervision.

Assistant Technician

On attaining the core qualification they will have one or more of the Caravan Gas, electrical and Water Systems, body and running gear specialities to a minimum competence. They will work unsupervised on basic caravan maintenance and simple repairs using standard spare parts within the area of their competence. If they wish to progress they will continue to seek further skills and competencies.

Technician

Time served and multi-skilled, working on maintenance and simple repairs using standard parts. May work solo or could manage a team of Assistant Technicians

Mechanic

A 'Mechanic' will have an extensive range of relevant skills and competencies. A working knowledge of the necessary regulations. They will be responsible for a workshop and any technicians/apprentices. They will schedule work loads using the relevant skills of their staff, and be capable of assessing more complex repair jobs. A Mechanic will be cable of recreating missing parts or assessing the suitability of alternative components. A mechanic may be self employed, or be part of a larger organisation.

Engineer

The title 'Engineer' has greater implications and should be used for people who actually manage to convert concepts into into realities using process and design and engineering skills. A working knowledge of how to apply Standards and Regulations to new circumstances.

A self employed mobile servicer should be titled a 'Mobile Caravan Technician' and they will be able to complete the essential service features, and basic checks. But for more complex work such as water ingress repairs, a 'Mobile Caravan Mechanic' grade would be more appropriate.

Whilst an 'Engineer' would be able to do all this it would not use their skills to its best advantage.

I stress this is just a personal view on the subject and it is probably incomplete, and not directed at anyone. Whilst I think it would help to differentiate skill levels to help customer understand the capabilities of businesses, I realise that as a result of UK's lack of clarity in this area there are many anomalies.

 

[Lutz]

Fair comment, John. It would be helpful to have at least some idea of the level of theoretical competence of who you are dealing with by knowing his title. Regardless, I wouldn't entrust my caravan with anyone who has only completed a 5 day course, whatever the title.

 

[Paul_374423711]

There is nothing stopping anyone buying the Haynes manual and tools and just doing it.

And that Paul is exactly what is wrong with this country, people get ripped off by fly by night chancers with no qualifications, no insurance cover and no bloody chance of getting satisfaction when they **** up. They just pxxs off and start somewhere else. Unqualified people should legally be banned from trading. There is a mobile caravan engineer working my area who until six months ago was a lorry driver. He may have been a good lorry driver, but from what I have seen of his work, he is a blxxdy poor caravan engineer, who is taking hard earned money off of people and giving next to nothing for it.

Steve W

That is a bit socially high ground Steve w.

Lats face it there are many quilified / educated con men in many trades. Qualification proves a learning ability and competence potential. Qualification never stopped a rogue ripping someone off. There is more honesty at the coal face with hard working truckers than with qualified buckfasters. Yes qualifications are important but so is decentcy and hard working integrity. A service engineer giving poor service has mothing to do with having driven lorrys. What part of the country is your rip off service engineer lorry driver in? Bad service needs to be avoided whatever the previous profession.

Paul S

 

[Paul_374423711]

Fair comment, John. It would be helpful to have at least some idea of the level of theoretical competence of who you are dealing with by knowing his title. Regardless, I wouldn't entrust my caravan with anyone who has only completed a 5 day course, whatever the title.

Lutz, Take it to a black hole type workshop and you be entrusting your caravan to some one who has not even done a five course. How do you know ?

 

[Lutz]

Fair comment, John. It would be helpful to have at least some idea of the level of theoretical competence of who you are dealing with by knowing his title. Regardless, I wouldn't entrust my caravan with anyone who has only completed a 5 day course, whatever the title.

That's the whole point that John L was also referring to. If job titles were protected, then at least you would know what minimum level of knowledge the respective technician, engineer, or whatever he's called, has a command of.

 

[caravanoracle]

when the NVQ for the caravan trade comes out later this year there will be defined positions within the workshops.

Apprentice Technician NVQ1

learning the trade aimed at either school levers or people joining with no caravan experience

Technician NVQ2

has gained experience and qualifications to current City & Guilds level and ACOPS with a minimum 12mths experience

Master Technician NVQ3

specialising in a singular aspects of caravan repairs ie electrics, gas, bodywork etc. a workshop foreman will also be at NVQ3

 

[Paul_374423711]

That's the whole point that John L was also referring to. If job titles were protected, then at least you would know what minimum level of knowledge the respective technician, engineer, or whatever he's called, has a command of.

But you dont know, it is only indicative that is capabale of good work. Like most tradesmen (persons) If you need a plumber or a removals firm of an accountant then you have more chanc of getting a good service if you ask someone you know for a referal. That way you can choose how fussy your friend is and he will tell you honestly if the man he used is any good. Then of course satisfy yourself that he is insured and competent. I would not let any one on my caravan if I knew he was not insured.

 

[ProfJohnL]

when the NVQ for the caravan trade comes out later this year there will be defined positions within the workshops.

Apprentice Technician NVQ1

learning the trade aimed at either school levers or people joining with no caravan experience

Technician NVQ2

has gained experience and qualifications to current City & Guilds level and ACOPS with a minimum 12mths experience

Master Technician NVQ3

specialising in a singular aspects of caravan repairs ie electrics, gas, bodywork etc. a workshop foreman will also be at NVQ3

This seems quite similar to my suggestion above, perhaps this is the start of something good for caravanners

 

[Guest]

These definitions are fine on paper, but in the real world who is to know who exactly is doing the work 'under supervision' supposedly? For example it would be nice to know that any body repairs will be done by the body repair technician, but if he is busy on another job, then Joe Blow is called in to do the work with advice. Maybe it is good, and maybe not.

I think part of the problem is that as soon as someone is qualified and experienced then they will be looking for a move to a administration position, or be headhunted. Some don't but many do.