Travellers above the law.

Mar 14, 2005
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Have just read in our local evening paper that some travellers have aquired some land (seems it was a dodgy deal with counterfeit money changing hands) and have moved 5 caravans onto the land with a view to making a permanent site for themselves. They have also put a mobile home, which requires planning permission, on to the site. The travellers have stated they have applied for planning permission but if it is refused they intend to ignore the planners anyway. The local council have said they will not take any action unless they receive complaints. I wonder if the council would be as understanding if I decided to allow mobile homes on my property without planning permission.
 
Nov 1, 2005
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i think one of the biggest problems we have in this country at present is the obsession with human rights.everyone needs to come round to the fact that no one is born with rights of any kind,we have to earn them.
 
Jan 19, 2008
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Well let's put it this way old boy, they have no rights on my estate and if I catch them they'll feel the cold steel of my 12 bore up their jacksey :O)
 
Mar 14, 2005
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You mean you couldn't use these "travellers", on your estate Lord Braykewynde? Perhaps as beaters, to scare the peasants out of the grass on a shoot day? Or how about cleaning up your kingdom, lets say, the removal of all copper cables or getting rid of all those nasty gold and silver ornaments? I know from experience that they are particularly adept at Transit removal (that's Ford Transit if your wondering).
 
May 21, 2008
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Easy tiger. I've been down the road of defending one's own property. Once eI actually caught a guy in the act of destroying my garden fence. I followed him and found where he lived, so I thought giving the info to our local wooden tops would have the job sorted PDQ.

All they seemed concerned about was that I didn't harm a hair on his head, or else they would arrest and prosecute ME!!

Well it took a year for the court case and then three years to pay up
 
Mar 14, 2005
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There does seem to be a bit of double-thinking here. Travellers exist, they have to be somewhere. If they set up camp on the road side, or on private propery, they are quite properly moved on. So where are they to go? The obvious solution would seem to be that they buy their own land and create their own sites. Yet when they attempt to do this they meet with the sort of reaction we see here.

Before anyone accuses me of not knowing what I am talking about, there is just such a site about a quarter of a mile from my home, owned by a family of Irish origin. It is immaculately kept and causes no problems to anyone. I pass three similar sites on my way to work each morning and only one of these could be described as anything less than an asset to the area.

I don't support any breach of the planning rules, but the rules do often seem to be stacked against people who wish to live in anything other a four-bedroom exectutive house.
 
Jan 19, 2008
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Chrissie just as you can find support for a family I have photographic evidence (which I would be willing to post on here if it was possible) of the contrary. I worked next to a site - paid for by the ratepayers - for travellers. It was a lovely site inhabited by local gypsies who we had no trouble with. When I say gypsies I mean gypsies and not Irish tinkers. I was on duty the night the tinkers came and smashed down the barriers to the site. We couldnt get to the Ambulance Station because they blocked the drive. My colleague asked if they could move but got a mouthful of filth of a drunken slut. I called the police who attended but made no effort to stop them. The following day they drove the gypsies off the site and then began a reign of fear,terror, theft of anything that wasnt chained down etc. After they trashed the toilets/shower blocks they used the ditch to do their business which was outside our rest room which wasnt a pretty sight after the leaves were off the trees. Try eating while you see one of them defficating. They even took over Ambulance Service land to stable their horses. They crashed a stolen car outside the station, I told the police where the culprit was, I'm still waiting for them to come and take a statement off me which they said they would. There was at least 6 stolen burned out cars on site. Without seeing the photos I took you couldnt begin to believe the devastation. It took 2 years for the council to get rid of them and the site is still derelict. They only managed to get rid of them on Health and Safety because they had tapped into the mains electric supply. The council are going to make it habitable again for more travellers at the rate payers expense now but hopefully not for Irish tinkers. What happened to them after they were evicted? They moved to the north of the county where they did the same on another site. About 2 weeks after they moved the local community had had enough and a local farmer came down with his tractor and sprayed them with liquid sewage which caused a riot. Perhaps SteveInLeo can remember that also businesses on Leominster Industrial Estate had to barricade the roads from them with farm machinery. They pay nothing to this country, only take, so they should be deported.
 
Jan 19, 2008
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I forgot to say that after attending various gypsies in their caravans I can only say that they were immaculately clean and the people most courteous. I also attended the tinkers but that is another story. By trashing the toilets and showers just shows they dont believe in cleanliness.
 

LMH

Mar 14, 2005
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Bob T - so sorry but couldn't let this go:

Your quote: '(seems it was a dodgy deal with counterfeit money changing hands)'

What evidence have YOU personally got to back up the paper's claim? Let's get one thing clear here, I once worked in a government department and the Daily Mail made scathing, untrue and unjustified allegations about our operation. It led to us receiving hate mail and other things such as used hyperdermic needles through the post. Get my drift how the media can print things which people read and believe and can incite hatred?

Are you aware that until a couple or so years ago, local councils were obliged to provide land for travellers sites. That is no longer the case. I accept there are some rouges, same as there are no doubt, rouges living up my road in suburbia.

They do buy land and apply for retrospective planning permission. When they settle, the children can attend local schools, the families can access doctors, dentists and other agencies, just like me and you.

We have a site near us and we don't experience any problems at all. You've got to accept that there's good and bad in all communities.

Why does such a hatred exist for ALL travellers in this country? I've met loads over the years (trading horses/visiting fairs) and never had a problem with any of them.

Incidentially, I am of Irish tinker origin and not ashamed of it.

Lisa.
 

LMH

Mar 14, 2005
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And another thing - here's an invitation open to anyone -

Meet me at Appleby Horse Fair next June - the small town will be full of about 40,000 plus travellers for the horse fair. I'll be there same as I am every year - come along I'll buy you a drink in one of the many pubs full to the brim with travellers.

Lisa.
 
Mar 28, 2005
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And another thing - here's an invitation open to anyone -

Meet me at Appleby Horse Fair next June - the small town will be full of about 40,000 plus travellers for the horse fair. I'll be there same as I am every year - come along I'll buy you a drink in one of the many pubs full to the brim with travellers.

Lisa.
squeak squeak
 

LMH

Mar 14, 2005
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And another thing - here's an invitation open to anyone -

Meet me at Appleby Horse Fair next June - the small town will be full of about 40,000 plus travellers for the horse fair. I'll be there same as I am every year - come along I'll buy you a drink in one of the many pubs full to the brim with travellers.

Lisa.
It's not funny Roy - it's a serious issue.

Lisa
 
Mar 28, 2005
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And another thing - here's an invitation open to anyone -

Meet me at Appleby Horse Fair next June - the small town will be full of about 40,000 plus travellers for the horse fair. I'll be there same as I am every year - come along I'll buy you a drink in one of the many pubs full to the brim with travellers.

Lisa.
consider my knuckles rapped Lisa
 
G

Guest

I didn't know restrospective planning permission was an accepted way of achieving objectives. A farmer here has just been told to demolish 2 bungalows he built on his own land, but didn't apply for planning permission. He applied for retrospective permission, but told 'no way'.

I thought we had one country and one law for all......except of course if...
 

LMH

Mar 14, 2005
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David - I'm not rising to your bait - this is a factual reply.

Retrospective planning permission is not always granted, in the case of travellers or anyone else, your farmer proves it, so does various other cases documented recently.

If it is not granted and I'm talking about travellers here, there is an appeals process but in 85% of appeals, they fail.

If it is rejected absolute, then the travellers will be evicted and off they will go looking for another site.

Actually we do have one country and one law for all, if you would like further information regarding the issues surrounding travellers and in particular retrospective planning permission applications, then please email the mod and ask that your email address be forwarded to me and I will email further information to you.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Regards

Lisa
 
G

Guest

Would it not be easier and simpler if they followed the same rules as everyone else moving to a new area? Most people move as family units, namely parents and children, not en masse and look for a house to rent, or buy. They don't normally move onto land and start digging large holes for septic tanks. Once settled they start paying all the bills that have landed through the letterbox and as you say join a school, doctor etc, if there is a place. I am sure if they followed those procedures then there would be no fuss at all.

As for rising to any bait...no bait was planted.
 
Apr 13, 2005
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We have an oficial site at the side of the railway line in salford, since it opened all the local pubs have shut most of the companies have moved and the railways have had the access gates stolen within two weeks of them being replaced. as soon as the gates are removed (by whoever) we find tons of rubish dumped illegally on the railway which has to be removed at our expense, not only is this costing the taxpayer but it creates a very dangerous situation for me as a train driver when i come round the corner at 50 mph and find the track blocked with rubbish. can we prosecute them ? no becouse even with video footage from the front of the train the culprits we identify have no fixed address. don't forget they are living on a legal site, but they have not registered as being there.
 

LMH

Mar 14, 2005
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David

Thank you for your reply. I appreciate what you are saying, but the travelling community do move en mass - the family unit does not only exist of parents and children. Most real travellers have many children, they also move with their parents, in laws, brothers, sisters, uncles, aunts, a whole extended family, that is the way of life for them.

Many travellers, believe it or not, and I have personal experience of this, do want to settle, they want their children to attend local schools and have an education. (Some travellers in the 20+ age group have very poor literacy skills due to constant moving around the country). They are, actually quite keen to become members of society and pay council tax and other utility bills. But it is the whole issue of retrospective rejected planning permission which is the issue. They are actually quite happy to settle but councils and communities don't want 'them' in their communities. The media does not help with the negative press. I would like to reiteate that there are good and bad in all societies but I can honestly say hand on heart (not through rose tinted spectacles) that I've honestly never had any dealings with bad travellers. And the offer still stands regarding the drink and socialisation at Appleby horse fair in June.

Someone has got to stand up for the travelling community, they receive such a bad press.

Anyway - We are on a caravan forum - do people not like the freedom of travelling?

Regards

Lisa.
 
Apr 19, 2005
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Lisa, I don`t know what planet you live on but it`s not middle England where the majority of people would think it`s acceptable to steal from a funeral directors !!!!! Yes , me and my wife own a funeral directors and we can always tell when the Travellers are in the vicinity of our village. Why ? because on every occassion Travellers have invaded our village green we have had things stolen from our premises and even been duped by the travellers and had things stolen from our home and business. this cannot be coincidence because in the twenty years we have owned our business we have only experienced problems the travellers are about, "COINCIDENCE" I don`t think so !!!!!. We have even done funerals for travellers and one of them stole Charity donations from us whilst visiting our premises.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Having attended the Appleby Fair a number of times. before the Event the town centre is immaculate, during the Fair the area slowly but surely goes downhill and after everyone has gone the locals are left to clean up a right mess.

People say that the locals make a lot of money during the fair although the cleaners get a very small portion of the profits.

I have no axe to grind regarding peoples way of life and as someone has rightly said there are good and bad in every community. and I would not select the travelling folk for special treatment. Good laws are usually adhered to and bad laws are usually not adhered to.
 

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