Travellers. Basildon . Essex

[thursdays child]

Parsky it is your right to have an opinion and freely express it.
To all on here in the words of Voltair "I may not agree with everything you say but I will defend to the death you right to say it" or something like that !!!!!
TC

 

[LMH]

Hi Thursdays Child
There's certainly no personal issue as far as I'm concerned but when someone decides to try to prevent me from expressing an opinion or exercising my right of free speech within the rules of this forum I will argue my point.

There's certainly no personal issue here for me either. I hope you're not referring to me when you say 'someone decides to try to prevent you from expressing an opinion or exercising your right of free speech within the rules of the forum'.

I can't believe you even think that. I thought you were a man.

Anyway, I was thinking of not posting on here any more, I personally don't have much in common with most people on here. This has just convinced me to go. And before anyone says I've spit the dummy out or I'm after the sympathy vote. I'm not, we all reach a point when we decide certain things/forums etc are no longer for us.

No hard feelings, well, not on my side anyway - I'm not that shallow. I hope everyone has great holidays and enjoys their time away in their cavavans whether they're from the settled community or the GT&R community. And, it has been good debating with you Parksy in the past and now.

Lisa

 

[Parksy]

No hard feelings, well, not on my side anyway - I'm not that shallow. I hope everyone has great holidays and enjoys their time away in their cavavans whether they're from the settled community or the GT&R community. And, it has been good debating with you Parksy in the past and now.
Lisa

Likewise Lisa, no hard feelings on my part either and I've enjoyed our little chats.

I can't believe you even think that. I thought you were a man.

The trouble is that I'm a stubborn old man Lisa

 

[RogerB]

In my view these people deserve no sympathy from anyone.They expect to do as they want and show no respect for anybody or anything.They seem to be exempt from British law and laugh at authority.
I have no proof but I suspect that they pay no income tax but expect to receive handouts from the State.The temporary stops are left in a disgusting state and cost a fortune for local authorities to sanitise.
They should fence them in and let them rot in their filth.

 

[Damian]

Quote "I have no proof but I suspect that they pay no income tax but expect to receive handouts from the State"

That comment equally applies to many thousands of others who are not travellers, but have no intention of ever working and live in Social Housing.

Similarly the comment about fencing them in and letting them rot in their own filth can be said about certain areas inhabited by non travellers.

I recently met a group of travellers in a layby just ouside Bristol, and a nicer group one would be hard to find.
They left the layby immaculate when they left, in fact in better condition than when they arrived.

So, by all means blame those who do make a mes, but dont tar everyone with the same brush.

On the other side of the coin was the situation I found myself in on a C&CC site just down the road from the travelles site.A couple were directed to pitch behind my van and the woman sent her husband up to Reception to "find out if they were travellers in the Hobby next to us, as if they are WE ARE NOT STAYING!!!.
Now maybe it is just me, but simply owning a Hobby is NOT an indication of being a traveller.
Having dogs is NOT an indication of being a traveller.
Being a Hobby owner AND having two Lurchers (and a Great Dane and a Boston Terrier) is most certainly NOT an indication of being a traveller (even if the lurchers do bring rabbits back).
I went to Reception to get Wi-Fi access and the particular "lady" walked about 10 yards further than she needed to give me a very wide berth,,,,,how sad can some people be.

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

hi all.
I wasn't going to contribute to this thread BUT; in our area we have had our fair share of traveler's antics over the years so much so that the local council have adopted a hard line approach to travelers, they would turn up overnight stay a few weeks untill evicted. leave the areas they stayed an absolute pig sty with rubbish, old vans and any scrap that could not be sold. the crime rate increased 10 fold while they were there and would dissapear overnight again usually after reports of missing caravans, cars, motorbikes, and farm equipment, no evidence ever came to light as to who pervayed the increased crime rate but it went down immeadiatly after they had gone.
everytime the travelers moved on the council took steps to prevent their return cleaned up the site and erected steel fencing, big boulders, ect to stop them returning of course they just found another site somewhere else in the area and the whole process repeated.
it took about 10 years of this proactive stance before they stopped comming, well I say stopped comming I should have said stopped settling most turn up park on a grass verge with a couple of vans put the horses out to grass for a day or two until the council and police move them on the threat of impounding the vans and horses as well as issuing fixed penalty notices on the un taxed vehicles seems to do it.
if basildon council had adopted this stance as soon as the first brick had been laid without planning the situation would not have developed
I am afriad I have no sympathy at all with them if they want to settle fine buy a house pay their taxes and abide by the law of the country just like the rest of us? but that is not the lifestyle is it.

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

hi again just read damians post my god I thought was that us???

every one has a story to tell it just depends on ones perspetive my own experience with travelers as allways been on the negative side others may well be different. it is the imprint on the brain that gets left when lifes experience teaches you a lesson.
I love dogs all dogs but would I walk upto a rottie and pat it's head no-way,
relating to damians story we stopped for a overnighter just off the M5 near glouster about 7.30pm on our way to cornwall, after pulling in the gate I noticed about 8 hobbies parked up against the fence all in a row, my god I thought a gypsy camp??? just as I started to reverse out of the gate a lady came out of the house "are you stopping she said" don't think so I replied what's with the hobbies !!,
"oh there all empty at the moment all seasonal pitches on that side no one comes untill the end of the month"
we still left I was too embarassed to stay there.

as damian said though on the otherhand!!! we were traveling north and stopped at washington services for a break after a particular bad spell due to high winds and was walking towards the services when this family got out of a ford fiesta the "little girl" who was about 6 turned to her mother and said "look mummy gypies" I didn't know wether to laugh out loud or go and slap the parents.

not that this has anything to do with the thread but it is funny in hindsight.

 

[RogerB]

Quote "I have no proof but I suspect that they pay no income tax but expect to receive handouts from the State"

That comment equally applies to many thousands of others who are not travellers, but have no intention of ever working and live in Social Housing.

Similarly the comment about fencing them in and letting them rot in their own filth can be said about certain areas inhabited by non travellers.

I agree but this thread is about travellers so my comments obviously refer to them.There are ,I expect,some perfectly acceptable people in the travelling community but from first hand experience those that I have had contact with have been the dregs.Unless, that is,you find it acceptable to deficate wherever you wish on your grassy knoll,scrape all your kitchen waste and household rubbish just outside your van,dump tipper loads of rubbish around your "site" etc. etc. and then move on for the LA to clear up.
So maybe Damian finds this OK?
How about the crowd who cut a large chain to set up camp on some land waiting for building to start near me.If I had cut it I would have been prosecuted .Were they prosecuted?Were they hell.They used the **** and bull story again -- just stopping for a few days for the funeral of a local child.Oh, OK, thats alright then.

I wonder how many of the people supporting this shower of sh** have been directly affected by them.They would soon change their views.

 

[Damian]

Quote "
I agree but this thread is about travellers so my comments obviously refer to them.There are ,I expect,some perfectly acceptable people in the travelling community but from first hand experience those that I have had contact with have been the dregs.Unless, that is,you find it acceptable to deficate wherever you wish on your grassy knoll,scrape all your kitchen waste and household rubbish just outside your van,dump tipper loads of rubbish around your "site" etc. etc. and then move on for the LA to clear up.
So maybe Damian finds this OK?"

Where did I ever say that I thought that kind of behaviour is OK?
What I said was that the group I met were very nice people who left the layby in immaculate condition on their departure.

I have also witnessed the kind of traveller who does what RogerB writes about and No, it is not Ok to do that , but I think that kind of "traveller"is despised by the genuine Travellers a well.

As with all kinds of people there are extremes, so by all means blame those who deserve to be blamed, but dont make sweeping statements which lump everyone into the same category.

The difference with the Basildon setup is that the people living there actually own the land, they just didnt get planning permission, but then again a lot of big name builders do the same, but can give th elocal authority a large backhander to smooth the path to granting permission, Tesco being one of the main rule benders.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Sorry Lisa
I thought long and hard about this but in the end conclude I cannot be party to breaking the Law. Regrettably I will not be signing the petition

You're not alone DD. Any law abiding citizen who believes in fairness for all will also refuse to sign this petition.
Ten years and the cost of millions to UK taxpayers is enough. It's about time that those whose lives have been blighted had their human rights taken into consideration and the U.N. channelled their energies into countries like North Korea, Iran, Myanmar, Syria, Zimbabwe plus many more countries throughout the world.
People should be allowed to come and live in this country if they abide by our laws and pay into society with taxes like the majority have to do.
As for Vanessa Redgrave describing the tinkers as "warm, strong, gentle and wise" it shows that the years of allegedly smoking waccy baccy may have affected her mind. Still as communist as ever

Moderators edit:
I have edited the final paragraph of this post slightly
Parksy (Moderator)

 

[RogerB]

All of the travellers that I have had the displeasure of coming into contact with have been dregs,but I concede that there must be some decent ones about.It has been said that the crowd at Basildon" only" failed to apply for planning permission.They knew exactly what they were doing and now should quite rightly face the consequences just as us law abiding folks would have to.
That they attract sympathy from the public amazes me.Years of anti social behaviour from them drove a perfectly reasonable man to confront them with a gun.He gets my sympathy.He had obviously reached the edge of his tether.
Our system does not have the balls to deal with them,They know that and they take us for fools.

 

[LMH]

Interesting point about balls, I wonder how many have them on here.

 

[LMH]

Removed.

 

[Oldsalt49]

Interesting point about balls, I wonder how many have them on here.

If it is estimated that there is a ratio of 75% men and 25% women on this forum. Then the answer to your question has to be 75% of them on here.

 

[DeliDave_]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/09/09/couple-must-tear-down-250-000-house-as-it-is-16ft-too-close-to-neighbour-115875-23406410/
Perhaps Vanessas Redgrave and the UN would like to assist this cause,not very likely as they have followed the rules

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

I'm in the same boat, own my own house, have a job, white middle class with no criminal record, my only crime a speeding ticket etc etc but I have been embraced by quite a few members of the G, R & T community, so obviously I am very interested in this case.

Lisa x

And here was I thinking that your interest lay in the fact that in the past you've stated that some of your family have come from the travelling community. I'm not denigrating that fact because anyone who has settled into mainstream life, works and pays taxes deserves everyones admiration.

 

[LMH]

You are correct, as stated many years ago by myself on here, my relatives were itinerant tinkers from Ireland.

My mothers family were the last to live in Caravans, they were successful horse dealers.

More recently, I have made many many new friends amongst the Travelling community, a mixture of R,G and T people. Some live on sites in caravans and some have fabulous places in the country. One of my new friends has a fleet of cars, his wife's runaround is a Benttley. And before anyone asks, yes, they pay their council tax, NI, all utitily bills and employ people to work for them. Local Councils are not obliged to provide sites for Travellers any more.

On Dale Farm, the Travellers own the site. They were granted planning permission for half the site, they were advised that planning permission would be granted for the other half. However, the law changed, so half the site has illegal structures on it, it's those illegal structures which are scheduled to be buldozed.

If anyone is interested, the horse trade dropped off in the 80's and 90's, however, there has been a huge revival in gypsy vanners. Some of these at the higher end sell for thousands. They are exported all over the world, the Americans can't get enough of them. It's not uncommon for a typical gypsy vanner stallion of average height (around 13hh - 13.2 to sell for around £100,000). That coloured filly in my avatar is worth about £20,000 and on the night I took that photo (at a secret location), I took some shots of a Blagdon filly which had sold that day for £45,000) and damn well nice it was too. Any horse for sale has to be chipped and passported, so it's very hard indeed (believe me) to falsify records or sell ringers.

Lisa

 

[Parksy]

The Crays Hill travellers site from which some travellers are threatened with eviction is reportedly owned by one family who own both halves of this site.
According to local news reports the 'legal' part of the site is seldom fully occupied, Click Here to read more on this.
The same newspaper carries reports about Basildon council officials launching a joint investigation with Wolverhampton housing officials and the DWP about false benefit claims due to allegations that some Crays Hill residents are claiming that they are being made homeless while they hold council tenancies in Low Hill Wolverhampton.
More on this story Here
I've met travellers who have seemed ok, I speak as I find, but there seems to be a bit more than meets the eye where this case is concerned which might be why these travellers whether genuinely homeless or not are having trouble in gaining much sympathy from the wider community around that area.
Where are all of the men from this site?

 

[joeby]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2035826/Dale-Farm-travellers-facing-eviction-secretly-properties-Ireland.html
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Click on the link above , apperantly some own propety in other towns so wouldnt be homeless if kicked off

 

[LMH]

We can all believe what we read in the papers or not.
Racist comment removed

 

[Parksy]

We can all believe what we read in the papers or not.

Racist comment removed

I'm puzzled as to why migrants from the various places that you mentioned who you say seem to get everything they want without putting a penny into the system anger you when these travellers, at least some of who are migrants from Eire and have therefore never put a penny into the system gain your full support.
What's the difference?

 

[LMH]

Racist comment removed

 

[Dustydog]

Forget eastern europeans , Indians Africans etc or whatever. This is about people breaking the law in Basildon Essex. According to the press a lot of them already own substantial properties in Ireland.
The 42 year old leader of the band has invited Basildon Council to pay him and his cronies £6 million to leave peacefully. Mathematics says this is a good deal but talk about a gun to the head. Where on earth are we going if we give in to this bribery and corruption????????????????

 

[Parksy]

Racist comment removed

I didn't have you down as a racist Lisa, you've really surprised me

 

[Joann]

Racist comment removed

The 'Eastern Europeans',' Africans' and 'Indians' I know keep the NHS running, so much for bleeding the country dry