Race relations case law recognises English Romany gypsies and Irish travellers as ethnic minorities and affords both ethnic groups the same rights to race relations protection as any other ethnic minority group.
The act makes no distinction between travellers and gypsies and as far as the Dale Farm issue is concerned neither should we.
The temporary residents could have been Chinese, their ethnicity had no real bearing on the outcome of the case.
The Human Rights Act 1988 also allows ethnic minority citizens the same rights as everybody else, but the local authorities must balance the needs of ethnic minorities against those of the wider community when decisions are made.
The problem faced by the ethnic minority residents at Dale Farm was that they had purchased and occupied land adjoining a permanent site or encampment and they did not have the necessary planning permission to convert their land into a permanent site.
They appear to have been given false hope that they would be able to gain retrospective planning permission because government ministers including John Prescott had indicated that this would be the case.
For some reason in this particular case one or two self styled 'community leaders' (how often do we hear that overused term?) decided to approach lawyers willing to represent the temporary residents who were granted legal aid by magistrates and judges who bent over backwards to appear to be fair and unbiased.
The arguments dragged on for over ten years with legal representatives enriching themselves and these community leaders coaching residents on what to claim, what to say and how to behave with the media spotlight upon them.
The legal avenues open to the temporary residents were finally exhausted and the actual travellers themselves went fairly meekly in the end which is probably what would have happened ten years ago if agitators, community leaders, human rights lawyers and the media hadn't become involved.
The protestors, supporters, anarchists or agitators are simply students, unemployed and unemployable overgrown hippies, new age types and the usual filthy few who can be seen at such events anywhere except at the job centre marching for full employment for all.
The travellers (or temporary residents because they displayed little inclination to travel) were never going to win this case no matter what because it would have thrown planning law throughout the UK out of the window and would have set a dangerous precedent.
These travellers have not been well served by their advisor's, they could have sold their land at a profit without the drama years ago and probably persuaded Basildon Council to look favourably at plans for an alternative permanent site, there is little chance of that happening now.
The act makes no distinction between travellers and gypsies and as far as the Dale Farm issue is concerned neither should we.
The temporary residents could have been Chinese, their ethnicity had no real bearing on the outcome of the case.
The Human Rights Act 1988 also allows ethnic minority citizens the same rights as everybody else, but the local authorities must balance the needs of ethnic minorities against those of the wider community when decisions are made.
The problem faced by the ethnic minority residents at Dale Farm was that they had purchased and occupied land adjoining a permanent site or encampment and they did not have the necessary planning permission to convert their land into a permanent site.
They appear to have been given false hope that they would be able to gain retrospective planning permission because government ministers including John Prescott had indicated that this would be the case.
For some reason in this particular case one or two self styled 'community leaders' (how often do we hear that overused term?) decided to approach lawyers willing to represent the temporary residents who were granted legal aid by magistrates and judges who bent over backwards to appear to be fair and unbiased.
The arguments dragged on for over ten years with legal representatives enriching themselves and these community leaders coaching residents on what to claim, what to say and how to behave with the media spotlight upon them.
The legal avenues open to the temporary residents were finally exhausted and the actual travellers themselves went fairly meekly in the end which is probably what would have happened ten years ago if agitators, community leaders, human rights lawyers and the media hadn't become involved.
The protestors, supporters, anarchists or agitators are simply students, unemployed and unemployable overgrown hippies, new age types and the usual filthy few who can be seen at such events anywhere except at the job centre marching for full employment for all.
The travellers (or temporary residents because they displayed little inclination to travel) were never going to win this case no matter what because it would have thrown planning law throughout the UK out of the window and would have set a dangerous precedent.
These travellers have not been well served by their advisor's, they could have sold their land at a profit without the drama years ago and probably persuaded Basildon Council to look favourably at plans for an alternative permanent site, there is little chance of that happening now.
I think i made it clear enough, you believe is based on a mere couple of families at a couple of places that fit into the bagworth and kangaroo spinney sites i came across on a regular basis,and from that we get your version of Irish tinker.but i have come across Irish tinkers sites of the calliper,of ecton next door to [billing aquadrome] justin pk mkt harboro and the irthinlboro site.Grantham, Langar, and many many more sites that are in some cases solely "Irish tinkers and some are mixed Irish and Romany.Lord Braykewynde said:JonnyG said:
God he's back with his gibberish.
First off could you translate your post into readable English and while you are at it could you elaborate where in my post, which you quoted, where I was wrong in describing the difference between those of Romany extraction and those originating from across the Irish Sea.
I could just as easily as you start shooting my keyboard off about sites locally but all the sites I know of are occupied by Romany gypsies. These comprise mainly the Butler and Smith clans but they are never together because for some reason known to them they do not get on. These same people occupy what were once layby's many years ago and have since probably claimed squatters rights because they've been there since at least the 70s. I can think of three instances of this and yet another family having settled at the end of a hospital drive although the hospital is now closed. They are still there though and surrounded by £250k+ houses. They have been no problem.
Unlike yourself my dealings with tinkers were through work and I had no choice in responding but I've had many calls to both communities.
I've posted many times on this forum that our station was next to a Romany site and we had no problems until they were, through threats, turfed off the site by your friends.
You accuse me of having little truth, or bigotted views in what I posted, yet you oh wise one, fail to point out what is lies. A bigot I am not but what I am is a realist and refuse to go around wearing rose tinted spectacles
I am fully aware there are some right scum bags amounts them,, I did say as much.but I also know there are plenty of decent types in there too. I Say you are bigoted,easy to say, your viewpoint points towards it,If not a bigoted view,then I would have expected a response in line with "I am sure there are some decent type tinkers but i've only ever come across bla bla bla" But what did I get As a responce? my view is through rose tinted specks! which means in your opinion, ALL Irish tinkers are low life's...... if that's not a bigoted view what on earth is!!!
JonnyG said:
I will try and decipher this and hopefully give a correct response.
NO, these people were not tinkers, they were Romany, hence the reason I said there was no trouble with those living in proximity to them unlike Dale Farm or the hundreds of other places that tinkers have blighted.
As I posted, I've had many dealings with them but unlike you I haven't found a single decent type and that was even when trying to help them with their injuries. The one case I have in mind is a broken leg caused by crashing a car they had stolen into the Welsh Waterboard gates. We witnessed many times theft on a great scale and at one time we had a delegation of them banging on the ambulance station doors threatening to burn the station down. Why? Because we used the emergency horns to get out onto the main road on 999 calls. They did say they would get their kids to set fire to the fuel pumps because the law can't touch them.
If that is the case you might as well include the vast majority in this country of being bigotted because there are very few, of those who've had experience of them, who are willing to espouse the views of yourself unless they are the types that Parksy described in his post above of their supporters, but then again, according to your politically correct doctrine I suppose that's also stereotyping
I will add that in my dealings I've met many pleasant people of the Romany extraction and we used to get on well with those next to the station until they were kicked off by your mates. The wardens hubby, Darky Smith even came and chopped down my leylandii and never charged me. They would even open up the site for people to park their cars when we held car boot sales for the local hospital. If your mates were on site they wouldn't have had any wheels when they came back to their car
What I will admit was when it was first proposed to build a site for the Romanies I was one of those, representing the ambulance service, who objected at the planning meeting. How wrong I was. We had no problems and had a good relationship with them and I felt guilty for my actions after. A different scenario though when your mates kicked them off. I suppose different people have their own definition of what's decent
You have convinced me to your way of small minded thinking! I suppose At some point you have turned up to a disturbance or isolated riot?
So the group,normally of youth or young men who behave atrociously,and attack fire service crews or ambulance crews,in city centres or urban housing estates,should be used as an example of how all youths or young men behave? Of course not even you know better,but you use that small mindedness style against other groups!
You seem to be unble to take in normal fundamentals.. The police ,The fire services and The ambulance services deal on a far far greater degree with the lower life's,and they in turn make up a far far smaller percentage of their groups.And yet your maths ability seems to miss this fine point. that you will come across more of this scum in your line of work,but.but that doesn't make them the norm! although repeatedly you seem to feel it does!
So the group,normally of youth or young men who behave atrociously,and attack fire service crews or ambulance crews,in city centres or urban housing estates,should be used as an example of how all youths or young men behave? Of course not even you know better,but you use that small mindedness style against other groups!
You seem to be unble to take in normal fundamentals.. The police ,The fire services and The ambulance services deal on a far far greater degree with the lower life's,and they in turn make up a far far smaller percentage of their groups.And yet your maths ability seems to miss this fine point. that you will come across more of this scum in your line of work,but.but that doesn't make them the norm! although repeatedly you seem to feel it does!
This topic appears to be turning into some sort of personal disagreement rather than a general discussion about the situation at Dale Farm which was about local authority planning regulations as much as anything else.
I don't think that mud slinging between two people who seldom agree on anything is adding anything of value to the debate so please try to stay on topic, or at least relevant.
I don't think that mud slinging between two people who seldom agree on anything is adding anything of value to the debate so please try to stay on topic, or at least relevant.
Parksy said:
Is it any wonder when this plonker posts.
Surfer asked a question and I answered it to the best of my ability and that was the end of it until the worm comes out of the woodwork. Thee trouble is when he tries to attack me none of it makes sense or is relevant to my post.
If the thread continues to have input and I feel that I have a view I will continue to post in this thread but as far as Gio is concerned I will ignore him. Mainly because I can't understand his grammar.
Now now Lord B, I know that one of your honorary part time positions as a pee er is diversity, equality and human rights advisor to Genghis Khan but name calling doesn't become you.
I doubt very much if you've ever watched Strictly Come Dancing on the Beeb but if you ever get chance, check out the dance judge who rejoices in the name of Bruno Tonioli.
Having listened carefully to the good Mr Tonioli recall his voice within your mind and apply it to Gio's posts, which will then make perfect sense from a grammatical point of view when you read them.
Sorry Gio, only kidding and I sound like a cross between ex Slade frontman Noddy Holder and Lenny Henry when he's having a bad day
I doubt very much if you've ever watched Strictly Come Dancing on the Beeb but if you ever get chance, check out the dance judge who rejoices in the name of Bruno Tonioli.
Having listened carefully to the good Mr Tonioli recall his voice within your mind and apply it to Gio's posts, which will then make perfect sense from a grammatical point of view when you read them.
Sorry Gio, only kidding and I sound like a cross between ex Slade frontman Noddy Holder and Lenny Henry when he's having a bad day
Parksy said:
Are you sure you are not going to night school Parksy?
Some very good scipt there.
Also I must thank His Lordship for an excellent , unbiased description of the possible ethnic minorities who took up illegal residence at Dale Farm.
This whole affair was about the Law . What any honest Law abiding citizen should expect.
It amazed me that there were London Lawyers willing to waste money on fighting such a case which had they won would have lead to a state of anarchy, a totally lawless society.
The Council Tax payers of Basildon through no fault of their own have seen their hard earned cash, some £30 million spent on evicting these illegal residents. Well done to the Councillors and people of Basildon for having the courage to enforce good Law.
Next time , I hope there isn't a next time, bring our boys back from Afghanistan and let them kick some a$$$ of any of the offenders who try to take up illegal occupancy.
Parksy said:Now now Lord B, I know that one of your honorary part time positions as a pee er is diversity, equality and human rights advisor to Genghis Khan but name calling doesn't become you.
I doubt very much if you've ever watched Strictly Come Dancing on the Beeb but if you ever get chance, check out the dance judge who rejoices in the name of Bruno Tonioli.
Having listened carefully to the good Mr Tonioli recall his voice within your mind and apply it to Gio's posts, which will then make perfect sense from a grammatical point of view when you read them.
Sorry Gio, only kidding and I sound like a cross between ex Slade frontman Noddy Holder and Lenny Henry when he's having a bad day
I do apologise for the name calling Parksy but when I perused the Windyship Book of Profanities it was the mildest I could use despite there being stronger ones that described Giovanni more aptly
No, I don't watch the said programme but Her Ladyship does and I can hear the commentary from where I sit. Strangely when hearing Mr Tonioli I don't connect Giovanni with him but I do connect him with the Walls Icecream advert. Despite this I don't think of Giovanni having such a melodious voice but more akin to a cat walking on hot coals
Dustydog said:Are you sure you are not going to night school Parksy?
Some very good scipt there.
Thanks DD, but no night school, just the university of life with a bit of help from Google
Dustydog said:
One can't help wondering just how many of these lawyers would have taken the case on behalf of the temporary residents if they hadn't been guaranteed their fees because the illegal occupiers were granted legal aid.
Why doesn't Basildon Council apply for costs against those who lost?
This is an entirely separate subject also worthy of debate and apologies for straying off topic, but our troops are not in Afghanistan to guard us against extremism, to uphold the freedoms of Afghans or to enhance womens rights over there.Dustydog said:
What is not widely reported in the UK media is that Afghanistan contains vast amounts of untapped mineral wealth.
The chances of the US and their allies ever leaving Afghanistan are pretty remote, competition for world resources will intensify in the coming years and British military involvement in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya has very little to do with the continued welfare of their respective populations.
Parksey I am glad I am niot the only one that can see this. Zimbabwe has no significant finds of mineral wealth or oil so another dictator can carry on murdering his own people and also farmers who have bought the land legitimately.
It's tragic to see what has become of Zimbabwe which was once regarded as the bread basket of Africa. Possibly because of the fact that Zimbabwe is a major trading partner of South Africa, a nation strategically important to the West, or perhaps because the UDI by Ian Smith's government indirectly led to the independence which has given rise to the present day situation, it would appear that Britain has no interest in intervention and successive governments continue to sit on their hands while ethnic cleansing is blatantly carried out by Mugabe led criminals.
Actually,they have the highest concentration of diamond fields on the planet and also have huge gold deposits.If they had oil,Mugabe would have been killed in the rush long ago
Parksy said:
As at 15 October 2011, a total of 383 British forces personnel or MOD civilians have died while serving in Afghanistan since the start of operations in October 2001. A very high price to pay IMO. I wonder what valuables we are still protecting in the Falklands! Do we really have South Sea Oil? I've never seen any.
Dustydog said:30 years on and we're still lookingSproket said:
They have found a substantial amount, but all of the equipment required to bring it to the surface will have to be designed & manufactured, & transported to the area, with this being subsea some of these projects take years to complete.
Takes a while to make & install all of this
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-14925620
Blood diamonds as many peoplde were shot and others displaced when they cleared the area so that Mugabe's army could take over the area. Where once ther was lush vegetation is now barren. As for gold as far as I am aware gold deposits are and have never been significant. Mica and chrome probably.mullsy1 said:
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