tyron bands

[ProfJohnL]

Hi

I have read this thread with interest and I am not convinced that these bands offer any real safety advantage. The conditions where the band may help are quite specific, yet the occurrences of these conditions are very rare.

If a tyre completely deflates, and the wheel rim is the only thing that is making any real contact with the road, then metal on hard tarmac is not good news, as it has a very low coefficient of friction and the affected wheel will loose grip and directional stability.

This only happens if a tyre deflates enough to allow the tyre bead to slip into the central groove of the wheel rim. The use of band may help prevent the bead loosing its position, and by the limited movement afforded by the flexing of the collapsed tyre side-wall, will help to keep some of the tyre tread between the rim and the road. This can help to maintain limited grip and thus retain some control. This is fine for a short period of time, but a deflated tyre will quickly loose its integrity due to the point loads that the rim will impose on the tread pattern, and due to the continued excessive flexing of the tyre carcase it will heat up, and either fall apart or even set on fire. If you run for any distance or at any significant speed on a deflated tyre even with the band, before too long you will loose the tyre and end up on the rims.

The above will only work if the tyre is completely deflated, but how often does a tyre get so soft as to allow this to happen? In reality not very often. It is my experience that partial tyres deflation is quite common, but it is rarely complete deflation, unless it is a blow out.

Blow-outs are of course a deflation, but it is a sudden event and there is damage to the structure of the tyre. Under these circumstances, even with a band the tyre will suffer very rapidly and in a matter meters the tread will begin to detach and the rim will make contact with the road.

As a result I am not convinced that Tyron bands offer any significant safety advantage. You can have a greater impact on safety by regularly checking tyres for conditions and correct inflation than fitting these bands.

I wait to be proven wrong.

If fitting bands makes you feel safer, that's fine, as long as you don't use them as an excuse for poor driving or failing to maintain your car and caravan properly.

 

[Robert_374373903]

I cannot comment on many of the technical comments on here nor do I have research evidence to support Tyron bands.

However, perhaps as importantly, what I do have is experience of puncture on a previous caravan with Tyron bands fitted. I was running at high speed to catch a ferry in Scotland, only when I stopped in the ferry queue was the fact that I had a puncture pointed out to me by a following vehicle. The tyre was so badly shredded that I had to call out my breakdown service - the protruding metal bands made it dangerous to handle without work gloves.

I had not even noticed the puncture so- YES in that situation Tyron bands had worked and prevented an accident for me and my, then, young family. So yes I have had Tyron bands fitted to all my caravans since then and to my towcars too. I have never had any problems with poor "ride"

I am a "belt and braces" person with ATC, shocks and Tyron bands fitted and a towcar with ESP and, when I get them fitted to the new car, Tyrons. Perhaps I am over cautious but I'd rather do all that I can to avoid an accident.

Tim

Hello Tim, regarding you did not know you had a puncture. I replied earlier on this thread about our sidewall blow out and the instant effects felt. We have a 2.0 140bhp dsg Skoda Elegance and we cetainaly felt it, our Cochman comes in at 1350 klg and the Skoda towing weight is 1400 klg, but we only load it to 1324 klg. Wonder what sort of tug where you are not aware of flat.

 

[joeby]

i had a blow out at 60 MPH on the M4 ,the tyre just exploded ,i just took my foot off the gas and came to a standstill ,everything was very stable ,the tyre was in shreds and the RAC patrolman said you must have hit a bolt ,i have never had tyron bands fitted ,and dont see any reason to have them in the future ,

 

[Zafiral]

My two penneth worth.

Tyron bands cost about

 

[Zafiral]

Icemaker

Sorry I was a bit abrupt, that is the problem with electronic communication, it can be difficult to understand the exact point people are getting across.

My mistake - I hope you now see we are both on the same side....

 

[Dustydog]

Just to repeat my earlier comment. Wouldn't it be better to have the tyre pressure monitoring system fitted to the caravan wheels?

Cheers

Alan

 

[Lutz]

My two penneth worth.

Tyron bands cost about

 

[RogerL]

Some tyre pressure monitoring systems are cheap for cars because they can use differences in signal from the ABS sensors to determine if one wheel is rotating faster than the others. This is done on an elapsed time basis to avoid differences from cornering and wheelspin.

Caravans would need the expensive form of TPMS with sensors within the tyres and wireless transmission to the driver.

I'd rather have ABS on the caravan than TPMS.

 

[Zafiral]

Roger

Would ABS be very dificult on non hydralic braking?

 

[Lutz]

ABS would be very difficult to implement on a caravan even if it had hydraulic brakes. ABS requires a signal that tells the unit what its actual speed is and this is then compared with the speed the wheels are turning. If they are turning slower than what the speed signal would suggest (due to the brakes locking) then the brakes are released. This is the principle of ABS. However, as the caravan doesn't have a speedometer, this data would have to be obtained from the car's speedometer and transmitted to the caravan. As you can imagine, this would require some fairly sophisticated electronics, in addition to a hydraulic braking system.

 

[Zafiral]

Lutz

I agree there is more independent testing of ATC, sorry that was a bad example. However I am not aware of any negative aspects of tyron bands and even if tyron slightly emphasise their own benefits they cannot be a bad thing.

My view is that a caravan is inherantly unstable (I dive for cover at this point) and any safety device cannot hinder.

As you may guess even though my caravan is only 1250kg MTPLM (upgraded from 1179kg) I have a AKS hitchhead stabiliser, tyron bands and ATC all retro fitted. A motor mover (the reason for upgrading the MTPLM) and a chassis mounted spare wheel all add weight to the axle area of the van, hopefully increasing the stability.

This may be seen to some as over the top, but I would rather arrive at my destination in one piece.

 

[Lutz]

I never meant to suggest that Tyron bands had any negative technical aspects, other than possibly poorer ride, but that really is not an issue with a caravan. What I do say, however, is that without further information from Tyron or any other body that has looked into them on a scientific basis, there is nothing positive to say about them, either. It is therefore perfectly legitimate to ask the question of what one gets for one's money. The Tyron website never says that their bands are capable of doing something that can't be done without them. They perhaps indirectly suggest that this is so, but do not substantiate their claims with watertight proof.

On the other hand there are so many reports on the performance of stabilisers, both mechanical like the AlKo and electronic such as ATC, that there is no reason to doubt their benefits.

 

[Dustydog]

Civical

You've lost me here. All these extras you have added apparently make your caravan more4 stable than the ome.Here I am lost. The weight of a caravan is a carefully set figure worked out by the chassis and van maker . hy should adding things improve anything?

As it happens my c'van has all the things you mention as standard fit. BUT that doesn't make me complacent.

Cheers

Alan

 

[Zafiral]

Alan

No matter how well set up the caravan leaves the manufacturer, adding weight just in front of the axle (the motor mover), and just behind the axle (the non standard spare wheel and carrier)can only improve stability as it focuses the weight on the axle, thereby reducing the moment of inertia (I think that is the correct term).

 

[Lutz]

Adding weight just ahead or behind the axle doesn't reduce the moment of inertia. It increases it, but not as much as if the weight were located further away from the axle. In other words, if you do add weight, try to do it as close as possible to the axle. However, adding weight in itself does not improve stability. Stability is a very complex issue and many other factors affect stability a lot more than moments of inertia.

 

[Zafiral]

Ok, perhaps I have gone over the top, but I was almost laughed at by a dealer when I said the safety add ons I have when I was getting a cost to change price.

 

[Zafiral]

Sorry, just to add, that same dealer sold me (and fitted) the tyron bands two years earlier!!

 

[RogerL]

"Would ABS be very dificult on non hydralic braking"

Civical - cable and rod braking was abandoned for motor vehicles early last century - the European trailer industry is a bit of a dinosaur retaining it.

 

[Zafiral]

We all want weight to be kept down hydralic brakes would add a massive amout of weight, and also requre massive re engineering of tow cars for towing. Yes it would be more effective, but IMO, it is not practical.

 

[seth1]

hello,

i,d be interested to know were you found that information Lutz on how an ABS system works if you dont mind.

thanks.

 

[RogerL]

We all want weight to be kept down hydralic brakes would add a massive amout of weight, and also requre massive re engineering of tow cars for towing. Yes it would be more effective, but IMO, it is not practical.

Hydraulic disk brakes may be lighter than cable drum brakes.

 

[Zafiral]

Hydraulic disk brakes may be lighter than cable drum brakes.

Not by the time you add the weight of the pipes and servos etc.

 

[rob_jax]

Seth,

Why not look up ABS on an internet knowledge site - like Wikipedia - and here's the link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-lock_braking_system
Robert

 

[Dustydog]

I've got ATC and wonder how it would respond if one wheel blew out?

The idea as I understand it is to stop a snake developing.

So what would ABS do on a caravan that ATC doesn't?

Cheers

Alan

 

[RogerL]

ABS on a caravan would prevent a braked wheel from locking, for instance on ice, or wet roads, so that the caravan does it's share of braking. Without ABS, the wheel will lock forcing the car to do all the braking which would extend the braking distance. Without ABS, the caravan may slew to one side during braking, which could be enough in certain circumstances to induce a snake.

ATC would work independently and differently to ABS.