Tyrons

[paws]

I know this is an old thread, and have no wish to join in the comments on the benefits or otherwise of using Tyron bands.

However there have been a number of comments about some folks having difficulty in finding tyre fitters who can remove and refit the bands, and how some tyre fitters have been baffled by them.

This is a sad commentary on the skills of the " tyre fitters" concerned.
Hutch in a post in this thread, some months ago now, said that it was an easy task for an Engineer to fit them (or words to that effect) and in my view that is quite right.

I would go further than that and say that anyone reasonably experienced with fitting a tyre and with a bit of common sense should be able to figure them out within a few seconds of looking at them... No special tools are required (but the Tyron band refitting tool does make it a tad easier and may shave a few seconds off the total time required for the job).

If a "tyre fitter" can't figure them out, after a moment or two looking at them then it would lead me to go elsewhere for tyre fitting as I would have little confidence in their abilities in other areas of the job....

It makes me wonder what the training for tyre fitters has to say about it and what should a competent tyre fitter be capable of, or not capable of, performing.
As always
Happy Caravanning and regards to all
paws

 

[Lutz]

In Germany it would theoretically be illegal to fit Tyron bands because they amount to a technical modification that has not been type approved, so one shouldn't be surprised if a tyre fitter in that country would refuse to fit them.

 

[Hutch]

In Germany it would theoretically be illegal to fit Tyron bands because they amount to a technical modification that has not been type approved, so one shouldn't be surprised if a tyre fitter in that country would refuse to fit them.

Hi Lurz, that is understandable.

In that situation then they should be able to remove the bands and then fit a new tyre or a puncture repaired tyre. Without the band fitted. But they would need the instructions to do that, The Tyron removal fitment instructions are in several different languages, Or maybe the German Tyre fitters are not that skilled. ( only joking)

 

[Dustydog]

For the 21st Century , 40 years on , never had a blowout / puncture that caused me a problem. On that basis I never felt the need for Tyron bands. There is no independent evidence that says Tyron bands are worth the expense.

 

[Hutch]

For the 21st Century , 40 years on , never had a blowout / puncture that caused me a problem. On that basis I never felt the need for Tyron bands. There is no independent evidence that says Tyron bands are worth the expense.

I fully agree with you there Dusty D but when I bought our van 2013 they were still pushing Tyron bands, I have fitted Tyrepal sensors, which I think are a great advantage to my towing.

 

[Gabsgrandad]

A few vans ago we had Tyron bands on. Going away one year the Freelander seemed to loose power, but revved freely with clutch in, couldn't spot anything untoward. At 1st. opportunity stopped to investigate. Walking round the van found this:-

Had done a few miles obviously with a blowout, but had no idea we had had a 'puncture'!! Had to have a new rim, and later found during the hol the wheel arch liner had been wrecked. So the tyron band had worked in keeping the tyre on the rim, but didn't have 'em refitted afterwards as was unsure whether they were good or bad. Still got 'em in garage!

 

[ProfJohnL]

Its not a fair to compare the value of tyre band's to pressure indicators, as the work in entirely (No pun intended) ways.The clear advantage of pressure sensors is they will warn when a tyre begins to lose pressure well before the tyre becomes unusable or unsafe. Tyre bands will only have any possible efficacy after the tyre has given up, and even then we still have no definitive proof they will provide any real benefit.

Ill resite my view that if tyre bands had a proven efficacy of improving safety, then they would have become a required fit to all road vehicles, in the same way seat belts and air bags, and more recently tyre pressure monitors.

 

[BaileyNiggles]

Anyone know of any other "bands" fitted to caravan wheels/tyres?

Tried booking into my local ATS for some new caravan tyres and the chap said, oooh, no, does it have steel tyre bands (or whatever his precise phrase), they're a pain and take 40 minutes per tyre and the only fitter qualified to work on them is not in till Monday week. Oh?, I asked. What are they then?

He explained they're a kind of additional "strengthening and cushioning" to the side wall such that if you, say, catch the wheel down a pothole or on the kerb it helps protect the tyre by helping take the extra weight or impact on the sidewall.

That doesn't sound like (a) a good thing to be made of steel, unless I guess steel cable embedded within the tyre itself which is then a non-point in the context of 'fitting' surely, nor (b) anything like Tyron bands or therefore (c) he knows what he's talking about. I had called by the same branch a week or so before to enquire more generally about whether they dealt with caravans, and that other employee made no such specific comments/concerns.

Any views?

 

[BaileyNiggles]

Were these Tyron things ever fitted as standard by the likes of Bailey etc. in the factory? That would surely answer the question as to whether I have them already. I presume not, as its not really a visible thing so is more likely just an unnecessary cost to manufacturers and else they'd have shouted about it in the marketing blurb.

 

[otherclive]

Anyone know of any other "bands" fitted to caravan wheels/tyres?

Tried booking into my local ATS for some new caravan tyres and the chap said, oooh, no, does it have steel tyre bands (or whatever his precise phrase), they're a pain and take 40 minutes per tyre and the only fitter qualified to work on them is not in till Monday week. Oh?, I asked. What are they then?

He explained they're a kind of additional "strengthening and cushioning" to the side wall such that if you, say, catch the wheel down a pothole or on the kerb it helps protect the tyre by helping take the extra weight or impact on the sidewall.

That doesn't sound like (a) a good thing to be made of steel, unless I guess steel cable embedded within the tyre itself which is then a non-point in the context of 'fitting' surely, nor (b) anything like Tyron bands or therefore (c) he knows what he's talking about. I had called by the same branch a week or so before to enquire more generally about whether they dealt with caravans, and that other employee made no such specific comments/concerns.

Any views?

I think the fitter is talking out of his rear end. The Tyron bands sit in the wheel well and are nowhere near the side walls. I don’t know of anything else that sits in the tyre other than Tyron bands. Perhaps he was getting confused with run flat tyres. But that’s ATS for you

 

[Bob_5041432]

Sorry - currently in Croatia and been off grid for a while. In Sheffield I was doing about 35 mph and was too confident in my ability to swing the caravan round corners. I think the blowout happened relatively quickly after that but memory fades with age! In Austria, the curb was a corner curb stone and the blowout happened instantly. I was probably travelling at about 15 mph at most as the roads are very narrow in the village. I was able to drive about 2 kms before I had a chance to pull over and change the wheel. There was no damage to the rim. Tyron bands will always create a large debate. As far as I am concerned, I have them, they are doing no harm and they allow me to be more relaxed when towing although, as I said before, I accept that my relaxation could be an illusion.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Bob,

I'm glad there was no damage to your rim, but whether that was due to having tyre bands fitted or whether it was just the design of the rim with its internal ridges. After all that is what the ridges are there for. We will never know the answer to that.

But each to their own choices.

P.s. Don't get too relaxed when towing.

 

[Bob_5041432]

Thanks Prof.

As you say, we will never know - 13 year old alloy wheels.

Won’t be too relaxed! A bit OCD when it comes to moving on. Have been learning since 1986 and now covering about 10k miles a year. Have camped all over Europe. Before leaving a pitch, I always empty the loo and onboard water tank and weigh my towbar. I also check my tyre pressures once a week and the torque on the wheel nuts once every 1000 miles or so. I change my tyres every 4 years and get the caravan serviced every year. All of that makes for relaxed towing!

 

[Lutz]

Thanks Prof.

As you say, we will never know - 13 year old alloy wheels.

Won’t be too relaxed! A bit OCD when it comes to moving on. Have been learning since 1986 and now covering about 10k miles a year. Have camped all over Europe. Before leaving a pitch, I always empty the loo and onboard water tank and weigh my towbar. I also check my tyre pressures once a week and the torque on the wheel nuts once every 1000 miles or so. I change my tyres every 4 years and get the caravan serviced every year. All of that makes for relaxed towing!

Wow! Please don't see this as a criticism, but I'd feel a bit stressed if I went through all that. Since the early '90s I do about 15000 miles a year, about half of that towing, but I never empty the loo or the onboard water tank before moving off, nor do I measure the noseweight. If I can just about comfortably lift the hitch by hand while straddling it, that's good enough for me, however, I do know that's between 70 and 80kg because I have measured it. I only check tyre pressures on the caravan before leaving home (I don't need to on the car because it's got TPMS) and I've only ever checked the torques on wheel nuts a week or two after a wheel change. As for tyre changes on the caravan, I do that every 6 years. That still leaves me relaxed for towing.

 

[Bob_5041432]

Lutz,

Each to their own as they would say. I know that my caravan is absolutely stable between 90 kg and 95 kg. It takes me 5 mins to weigh and adjust if necessary. As for the rest, it is a matter of choice. I have seen too many caravan accidents - particularly on the Brenner - over the past 33 years to be complacent. At the end of the day, it boils down to whatever works for you. Everyone’s rig is different with different stability parameters. I know mine is skittish under 90 kg - I can feel it instinctively. So I make sure that, before I set off, that I am within my parameters.

This was meant to be answering a question about my experience with Tyron Bands and responding to the Prof’s concern about me getting too relaxed when towing - not a general debate about procedures.

Currently in Croatia but heading for Sicily shortly. Best regards, Bob

 

[Hutch]

Bob, sounds like your sensible and enjoying your self. I have Tyron bands and carry the mobile kit for removing them , but also have the tyre pal indicators.
Safe travels.
Hutch.

 

[Bob_5041432]

Thanks Hutch.

Away until mid-Dec and then off again at the end of Jan to Morocco. Time is the only, but big, advantage of old age!!

Bob

 

[Hutch]

Thanks Hutch.

Away until mid-Dec and then off again at the end of Jan to Morocco. Time is the only, but big, advantage of old age!!

Bob

Disadvantage of old age, dental appointments and trying to get doctors appointments for silly stuff. And can't remember how to cancel the milk delivery.
Enjoy your trips.
Hutch.

 

[Bob_5041432]

Plus a caravan medicine cupboard full of pills, trying to remember why you are where you are and what you came for together with waking up each morning wondering which bit of you will hurt that day!!

 

[Lutz]

I'm not going to tied up in a discussion about what is sensible and what is a bit 'over the top' as regards preparations before moving off with the caravan, but I have yet to understand the benefits of Tyron bands. I know all about the manufacturer's claims, but even he hasn't demonstrated that one would be any worse off without them. He has just shown results with them on, but never any without them in comparison, so we will never know if there is any improvement. Even the theory behind them has its failings. They are supposed to prevent the bead from falling into the well, which they probably do, but that poses the question, does it really happen when Tyron bands are not present? Besides, they can't prevent the sidewalls or the tread from disintegrating because they can only retain the bead, so how can a tyre without sidewall and tread support and just the bead remaining provide much lateral grip, whether Tyron bands are present or not?
If you have seen many accidents on the Brenner, how many of those are due to tyre failure? Surely the risk of a blowout on the Brenner isn't greater than anywhere else and even if there is a blowout, what is the likelihood of an accident? I have experienced a blowout at motorway speeds myself, both solo at almost 90mph on the German autobahn and when towing on the caravan itself and in both cases, were it not for hearing a big bang, I wouldn't have known that anything untoward had happened.

 

[Bob_5041432]

Lutz,

Agree with all of that. I have Tyron bands but agree that whether my experiences would have been any different without them will never be known.

As for the Brenner, don’t ask me why but, in 33 years of caravanning, it had been the only place that we have seen caravans in trouble. 4 actually. What caused the trouble we will also never know. But in 2 cases, the damage was extreme and sobering.

Bob

 

[ProfJohnL]

Over time, new ideas that have improved vehicle safety have either by legislation good sense or by public opinion have found their way into new cars. For example few would doubt the benefits of seat belts, dual circuit and antilock brakes, energy absorbing designs, automatic fuel shut off valves, etc. The car manufacturers would not fit these items unless there was either a legal requirement, or some marketing benefit.

Generally legal compulsion to include new safety systems only comes after there has been a wealth of experience that demonstrates the systems do have quantifiable benefits for both vehicle occupants, and for reducing RTI's.

Tyre bands have been available for several decades, so if they have had more than enough time to prove their worth, but they have failed to convince any of the organisations that deal with vehicle safety to campaign for them to become standard safety kit.

There may be some patent protection preventing direct copies, but If they were the next must have item, more manufacturer's would have either licenced the design or found ways to get round the patents. All this reinforces the fact that tyre bands have not got proven advantage's for normal motorist's.

Ironically a far more recent product has been developed and is now a requirement in new cars... tyre pressure monitoring. This does have a track record plus it has the added advantage of being a preventative tool which arguably is far more beneficial than an after the event damage limitation device of unproven efficacy.

No one has yet enlightened me as to why it's so important to fit tyre bands to their caravan, yet they don't also fit them to their car. The car carries a far more valuable human commodity, yet the owner cares more for their caravan than their family?

I will happily change my view about tyre bands if the manufactures can provide scientifically secure and repeatable evidence of the benefits for normal road users.

Are you really safer with tyre bands fitted? Bring on the evidence.........

Until such evidence is produced, they are a product that is marketed on the basis of instilling fear of an event which with proper maintenance, and careful driving should be a relatively rare occurrence, and not necessarily as catestrophic as the tyre band manufactures would have you believe.

Apart from cost and increasing unsprung weight in a wheel, and being problematical for the majority of tyre fitters, I do not believe they create any other negative factors.

Meanwhile, whilst I will disagree with anyone who claims they offer a safety benefit, it's a matter of personal choice to fit them or not.

 

[otherclive]

Over time, new ideas that have improved vehicle safety have either by legislation good sense or by public opinion have found their way into new cars. For example few would doubt the benefits of seat belts, dual circuit and antilock brakes, energy absorbing designs, automatic fuel shut off valves, etc. The car manufacturers would not fit these items unless there was either a legal requirement, or some marketing benefit.

Generally legal compulsion to include new safety systems only comes after there has been a wealth of experience that demonstrates the systems do have quantifiable benefits for both vehicle occupants, and for reducing RTI's.

Tyre bands have been available for several decades, so if they have had more than enough time to prove their worth, but they have failed to convince any of the organisations that deal with vehicle safety to campaign for them to become standard safety kit.

There may be some patent protection preventing direct copies, but If they were the next must have item, more manufacturer's would have either licenced the design or found ways to get round the patents. All this reinforces the fact that tyre bands have not got proven advantage's for normal motorist's.

Ironically a far more recent product has been developed and is now a requirement in new cars... tyre pressure monitoring. This does have a track record plus it has the added advantage of being a preventative tool which arguably is far more beneficial than an after the event damage limitation device of unproven efficacy.

No one has yet enlightened me as to why it's so important to fit tyre bands to their caravan, yet they don't also fit them to their car. The car carries a far more valuable human commodity, yet the owner cares more for their caravan than their family?

I will happily change my view about tyre bands if the manufactures can provide scientifically secure and repeatable evidence of the benefits for normal road users.

Are you really safer with tyre bands fitted? Bring on the evidence.........

Until such evidence is produced, they are a product that is marketed on the basis of instilling fear of an event which with proper maintenance, and careful driving should be a relatively rare occurrence, and not necessarily as catestrophic as the tyre band manufactures would have you believe.

Apart from cost and increasing unsprung weight in a wheel, and being problematical for the majority of tyre fitters, I do not believe they create any other negative factors.

Meanwhile, whilst I will disagree with anyone who claims they offer a safety benefit, it's a matter of personal choice to fit them or not.

One of the main reasons I bought a CITROEN BX Estate was the fact it remained stable and level in the event of a tyre blow out. In fact were it a rear tyre you could still drive home! And yes it was reliable too.