Unbelievable

[Devonisheaven]

The 999 responder, agreed to my giving 300 mg of Aspirin and getting her in a sitting position. This was told to myself on a company first aid course. And never contradicted over three incidences.

Edit I have just checked on NHS guide line, and Aspirin is NOT advised.
Thank you for correcting me. Seams like a lot of European health guide lines have changed.
Thanks Devonisheavon.

Always a pleasure Hutch.

Apart from my career of 34 years in Fisheries, I had a business teaching First Aid for 20 years until I fully retired last year.

The 300mg of Asprin and the sitting position is the First Aid treatment for suspected Heart Attack, the symptoms and signs for a Stroke are very different. 👍

 

[Devonisheaven]

999 responders sometimes give advice which later proves to be diametrically wrong

I recently collapsed on a day out, my friends called 999 and were told categorically not to give me anything to eat or drink - on admission to hospital I was diagnosed as dehydrated and both doctors who checked me over agreed that advice shouldn't have been given -we'll never know but I suspect that if they'd been told to give me a drink that we could have avoided an ambulance call out and admission to A&E.

It is believed that around three quarters of the population are in a constant state of Dehydration, and please, sorry for being blunt, but that is totally avoidable.

As a male you should be drinking AT LEAST 3 litres of water a day, in hot weather get more in to you, say 5 litres. You will feel so much better………But pee like a racehorse!

I have a water bottle in my car and pick up truck, always topped up, and never hike without at least, 3lts of water and a water purifier.

Also be a pee checker! Yes, check the colour of your pee, it should be a light straw colour or even clear. If it is a darker colour, it is a good sign you are dehydrated.

Get that water into you! It’s so good for you………and your skin will thank you. 👍

EDIT: It is the final day of the Six Nations, it is ok to substitute water for Lager or Beer from 14:00hrs onward. 👍🍻🍻

 

[Devonisheaven]

Yet again, Never give water, due to internal ruptures. Is advised.

I think I will book myself into the St Johns accident course, I am obviously well out of date. .
Well out of date with my BSAC diving , rescue certificate.

Great idea to get some training Hutch, if you weren’t so far away we could meet up for a catch up!

But seriously, everyone should ask themselves, would you know what to do, do you know how to do CPR and use a De Fib, properly recognise and treat a burn. Recognise a Stroke or Heart Attack, and know what to do. Deal with someone who is choking! How to deal with a broken bone.

Concussion, heat exhaustion, heat stroke, hypothermia, asthma, anaphylaxis, hypoglycaemia……..etc, etc.

Would you know how to administer a Tourniquet in the event of a catastrophic bleed, or even recognise a cat bleed.

If you do get some training, make sure your provider teaches Catastrophic Bleeding as part of the training, and that they are a regulated training provider.

 

[Jcloughie]

In reality Doctors in the UK also have to be able to demonstrate they partake and learn from Continuing Professional Development (CPD) failure to do so will bring them up in front of the General Medical Council

CPD is a very sensible method. My contract was altered to include it around 2007. We were all trained up on how to comply. There was lots of concern as to how this was going to be verified. Turned out, that all that was just needed to keep a log of what we did,

eg, read an article on ****** 1 hour. Etc.

After about 1 year we all realised that there was zero verification happening. The whole thing died a death.

I really hope that doctors CPD is better enforced.

John

 

[Sam Vimes]

Great idea to get some training Hutch, if you weren’t so far away we could meet up for a catch up!

But seriously, everyone should ask themselves, would you know what to do, do you know how to do CPR and use a De Fib, properly recognise and treat a burn. Recognise a Stroke or Heart Attack, and know what to do. Deal with someone who is choking! How to deal with a broken bone.

Concussion, heat exhaustion, heat stroke, hypothermia, asthma, anaphylaxis, hypoglycaemia……..etc, etc.

Would you know how to administer a Tourniquet in the event of a catastrophic bleed, or even recognise a cat bleed.

If you do get some training, make sure your provider teaches Catastrophic Bleeding as part of the training, and that they are a regulated training provider.

Yes to most of the above. For a number of years I was a Community First Responder until the Scottish Ambulance Service stopped supporting us.

We had regular training and I can still remember most of the basics and would still step forward if needed.

Problem these days is one of liability.. While registered with the SAS, we were covered. Now it would be at our own risk...something to think about in these days of ambulance chasing lawyers.

You may have heard of them.....Rob and Sue Anybody

 

[GaryB]

Just to add to this older thread with a tale of despair. Our surgery is now on web-based appointment booking only (as of last month), the reception staff quite bluntly tell anyone who struggles with technology to get a friend or relative to help them, they will not accept ANY appointment requests over the phone. I could do with seeing a doctor (nothing urgent) and have been trying to book an appointment for the last 4 weeks, each day there is NOTHING available for the coming month! According to the area FB groups the surrounding towns are facing the same problem.

I have no answers but it makes a mockery of the TV adverts telling you to talk to your GP if you think something's wrong etc.

 

[Jcloughie]

Our surgery will allow, and even help people to get an appointment with the reception or by phone. But continually push for online requests. The online system they had was worse than usless. After many complaints, (including me). We now have a new simpler system that is not to bad to use.

It would be nice to have some national agreement on this.

John

 

[otherclive]

I’m very grateful that our surgery provides online triage from 0730, and phone or in person appointments from 0800 with a quota retained for the latter two categories. The last two times I have used the online triage I’ve had a response by mid morning. One was a doctor ringing me and sorting out an approach with a prescription issued. The second time was a link to book a blood test.
An excellent surgery by any standards

 

[Ian Law]

I recently renewed my Outdoor First Aid certificate (kayaking coach) and the change in emphasis in the course content over the years is chilling. We were told your job is to keep your casualty alive for 4 to 6 hours plus before realistically any professional help is going to arrive and that is being optimistic!

 

[Devonisheaven]

I recently renewed my Outdoor First Aid certificate (kayaking coach) and the change in emphasis in the course content over the years is chilling. We were told your job is to keep your casualty alive for 4 to 6 hours plus before realistically any professional help is going to arrive and that is being optimistic!

Chilling is a real good word to use, and you are right, it is chilling! We are being served really badly, it is a good job we have volunteer organisations such as Mountain Rescue etc, who are amazing.

But the word chilling is very relevant, one of the main priorities, in the outdoor scenario especially, is to keep the casualty warm.

I will never forget what I was told on my Outdoor First Aid Instructors Course, to emphasise, repeatedly, that whatever illness or injury a casualty has, it will be made worse if you allow them to get cold/hypothermic. So make sure you have provision to keep someone warm. 👍

 

[otherclive]

Chilling is a real good word to use, and you are right, it is chilling! We are being served really badly, it is a good job we have volunteer organisations such as Mountain Rescue etc, who are amazing.

But the word chilling is very relevant, one of the main priorities, in the outdoor scenario especially, is to keep the casualty warm.

I will never forget what I was told on my Outdoor First Aid Instructors Course, to emphasise, repeatedly, that whatever illness or injury a casualty has, it will be made worse if you allow them to get cold/hypothermic. So make sure you have provision to keep someone warm. 👍

We have two emergency thermal blankets in both of our cars, and I gave some to our kids and grandkids for their cars too.

 

[Devonisheaven]

Just to add to my previous, much of body heat loss will be due to the ground. Whatever you put over a casualty, you will need three under them. Its a 3:1 ratio.

Just worth remembering.

 

[otherclive]

Just to add to my previous, much of body heat loss will be due to the ground. Whatever you put over a casualty, you will need three under them. Its a 3:1 ratio.

Just worth remembering.

My vet beds and dog mats must be layers 2 and 3 if out in the car. 👍

 

[Devonisheaven]

My vet beds and dog mats must be layers 2 and 3 if out in the car. 👍

Great improvisation! 👍

 

[Mr Plodd]

We were told your job is to keep your casualty alive for 4 to 6 hours plus before realistically any professional help is going to arrive and that is being optimistic!

During my later years as a traffic cop we had our first aid training from emergency paramedics. ( I am, and always will be, in total awe of their skills, talk about miracle workers at RTC's)
Their training/advice was very simple indeed.....

1. Keep 'em breathing,
2. Stop 'em bleeding,
3. Wait till we arrive to do the technical stuff 'cos that's what we are trained to do and we won't be far behind you"

They would now probably add in Keep 'em warm.

 

[Devonisheaven]

During my later years as a traffic cop we had our first aid training from emergency paramedics. ( I am, and always will be, in total awe of their skills, talk about miracle workers at RTC's)
Their training/advice was very simple indeed.....

1. Keep 'em breathing,
2. Stop 'em bleeding,
3. Wait till we arrive to do the technical stuff 'cos that's what we are trained to do and we won't be far behind you"

They would now probably add in Keep 'em warm.

Totally right today! Learn when and how to do CPR, use a De Fib, and treat a catastrophic bleed, including how to use or improvise a Tourniquet.

On a few training course I did, Paramedics said exactly the same. 👍

 

[otherclive]

During my later years as a traffic cop we had our first aid training from emergency paramedics. ( I am, and always will be, in total awe of their skills, talk about miracle workers at RTC's)
Their training/advice was very simple indeed.....

1. Keep 'em breathing,
2. Stop 'em bleeding,
3. Wait till we arrive to do the technical stuff 'cos that's what we are trained to do and we won't be far behind you"

They would now probably add in Keep 'em warm.

A friend of mine was in the Royal Marines and some of their training involved attending traffic crashes to get them used to the seeing badly injured or dead persons. They did not actually intervene in the RTA but watched what the emergency serves did. He remarked that on some accidents even the vehicles were "triaged" such that attendance to Volvos and Saabs took second place to less robust cars. This was back in the 1960s guess things have changed now. But as an Artic Warfare instructor it must have stood him in good stead for Borneo and Oman operations!

 

[Sam Vimes]

First steps I was taught are known as DRABC.

Danger... assessment
Response.
Airways
Breathing
Circulation

Got called out a few times and none of those were really relevant.

 

[Devonisheaven]

First steps I was taught are known as DRABC.

Danger... assessment
Response.
Airways
Breathing
Circulation

Got called out a few times and none of those were really relevant.

That is the “Primary Survey” and for a lay person who may be the first to respond to a casualty……It is VERY, relevant. It is taught that way throughout Europe, and a derivative of that is taught worldwide. I have had to use it twice…….Absolutely spot on.

The only exception being if a casualty is pumping blood..…..Get it stopped ASAP!

 

[Sam Vimes]

Except if they're still attached to a high voltage cable or similar

 

[Mel]

I think Otherclives account of training folks by putting them in proximity to badly injured people is a really good strategy. Theory and training in first aid strategies is vital but if you absolutely freeze when confronted by the most awful of scenes; you are of little use.
Mel

 

[Devonisheaven]

I think Otherclives account of training folks by putting them in proximity to badly injured people is a really good strategy. Theory and training in first aid strategies is vital but if you absolutely freeze when confronted by the most awful of scenes; you are of little use.
Mel

An individual will never know how they will react, but having some training is going to go a very, very long way to helping them, and giving them confidence. Also as a fact, the majority of people react far better than THEY think they will.

I can also add, that the practice described has not been carried out for decades……It is counter productive, and can/will cause PTSD even before they enter theatre. Good strategy……No!

 

[Devonisheaven]

Except if they're still attached to a high voltage cable or similar

That’s what the “D” in the Primary Survey is there for. But if anyone is attached to a “High Voltage” cable, by the time you get it isolated…….They are very poorly! ☹️

 

[Mel]

I can also add, that the practice described has not been carried out for decades……It is counter productive, and can/will cause PTSD even before they enter theatre. Good strategy……No!

I agree that shoving unsuspecting and unsupported folks in front of a scene of carnage would be very bad practice. The “man up; you’ll be fine” attitude which prevailed decades ago ( and still exists in many places) was indeed dangerous and counterproductive.
However, if you are training people who are inevitably going to face such scenes, and you put in appropriate pre and post support then witnessing carnage in a well supported way will actually build resilience and increase capability.
Having treated people who have suffered PTSD then I know that not all people are as resilient as they would like to think that they are. Services are now recognising the impact on staff of facing awfulness on a daily basis, but if you only provide input when folks wobble and don’t build resilience beforehand then services are missing an important step.
Mel

 

[Devonisheaven]

I agree that shoving unsuspecting and unsupported folks in front of a scene of carnage would be very bad practice. The “man up; you’ll be fine” attitude which prevailed decades ago ( and still exists in many places) was indeed dangerous and counterproductive.
However, if you are training people who are inevitably going to face such scenes, and you put in appropriate pre and post support then witnessing carnage in a well supported way will actually build resilience and increase capability.
Having treated people who have suffered PTSD then I know that not all people are as resilient as they would like to think that they are. Services are now recognising the impact on staff of facing awfulness on a daily basis, but if you only provide input when folks wobble and don’t build resilience beforehand then services are missing an important step.
Mel

Yes, supporting those that suffer from such condidtions in absolutely essential and invaluable. I was an Infanteer myself, serving in a Reserve Battalion of an Infantry Regiment. No prizes for guessing which one! Serving with many ex and serving regulars, many who served in theatre, indeed, the tales are chilling. But good training helps, never fully prepares, but helps. As an Infantry soldier, you are taught one main skill! 👍