vauxhall insignia

[JonnyG]

"My understanding is that GM bid for the plant in Poland, and not Fiat.
Only the 1.9 engine was covered by old Fiat/GM joint venture agreements. With the introduction of a 2.0 version, Opel no longer has any obligations towards Fiat. The two stage turbocharged version was not developed by Fiat, but by Saab, initially for their own use. Now that Saab no longer belongs to GM, this engine is no longer available to Opel/Vauxhall until a solution is found. The Insignia was validated and released with this engine prior to GM's sale of Saab. Start of production is therefore on hold at present".

My link that seems to not work any more was from oct 10th, it seems GM have relinquished their 50% holding in the polish plant, and Fiat Power train is purchasing it.This plant was where the 1.3 multi jet was built that did indeed find its way not only into Fiats but Opels [GM] Suzuki and indeed the new Ford KA to name just a few......As for the "Saab" built twin turbo engine! It seem Fiat have other ideas on who built that! as its down as fiat powertrain.It debuited in the Lancia Delta at 190ps and the Saab 9 3 at 180ps both back in 2008 i believe......

 

[Lutz]

As I said, I never had dealings with our powertrain people so I have no means of confirming the information I have, and you may therefore be correct. However, I do know that Opel/GM has already wrapped up or is in the final process of concluding all cooperation with Fiat. This makes sense considering Fiats involvement with GM's archrival Chrysler.
Weren't the Lancia and the Saab units that you refer to 1.9 litre and therefore still covered by the agreement with Fiat? The contract with Fiat, however, only covered these and not any 2.0 derivative such for a Saab upgrade and the Insignia.

 

[JonnyG]

As I said, I never had dealings with our powertrain people so I have no means of confirming the information I have, and you may therefore be correct. However, I do know that Opel/GM has already wrapped up or is in the final process of concluding all cooperation with Fiat. This makes sense considering Fiats involvement with GM's archrival Chrysler.
Weren't the Lancia and the Saab units that you refer to 1.9 litre and therefore still covered by the agreement with Fiat? The contract with Fiat, however, only covered these and not any 2.0 derivative such for a Saab upgrade and the Insignia.

Again i am learning quite a few things new to me and indeed its still easy to get confused and mix up data with the in,s and outs of things.
In fact did a google last night of "EUROPEAN engine plants, and boy does Poland have more than its fare share of plants.....

I am trying to pick your brains Lutz ...Once again, in the hope you are quite possibly levy to much more info than the likes of me.As this joint venture was more than just shared engine plants, with Alfa using the GM 4 cylinder petrol engines of 2.2l maybe smaller ones too, I assume all this too has come to an end or will be soon....But not much info out there saying what is what.....

 

[Lutz]

I've just found a press release that confirms you were right about the Bielsko-Biala plant:
http://www.fptpowertrain.com/eng/pdf/press%20release%20FPT-%20GM%20x%20Bielsko%20Biala.pdf
The completion of that transfer of ownership virtually sets a seal to the end of the Fiat/GM partnership, unless there are some insignificant stragglers that still need sorting out.
I see that Emily Perry, who is mentioned at the bottom of the page as Communications Director of GM Powertrain Europe with a Turin telephone number now, according to the Opel Media website, has a Zurich number, so she must have been recalled (although, strangely enough, she has retained her Italian email address - must be in the process of transition).

 

[Phil_374415381]

@ Jonny G

As an Alfa Romeo owner of a few years there's more to GM/Fiat story than meets the eye. Alfa were tied into a deal with GM that saw the GM 3.2 V6 and 2.2 inline 4 going into the 159. The 156 2.4 JTD and 159 6 speed models sport a GM sourced gearbox. the 1.9 JTD and JTDm engines were shared with GM for the Vectra and SAAB 9.3. The new 2.0 diesel in both the Insignia and 159 is the same engine apart from the state of tune, this is a development of the original 1946cc engine now bored out to 1956cc. Alfa is given 170ps (168 bhp) and GM is 160ps, there is also reduction in the torque figure on the GM version. There was also meant to be a shared 'premio' platform between GM and Alfa but this fell by the wayside in 2005 when Alfa went alone on developing the 159 platform.
The more you look the more you'll find shared between the Fiat and GM stable, but with the aquisition of Chrysler by Fiat how long will the GM connection last??

 

[Lutz]

The more you look the more you'll find shared between the Fiat and GM stable, but with the aquisition of Chrysler by Fiat how long will the GM connection last??

Fact is the connection hasn't lasted and it officially ceased to exist in 2005. The break-up, however, hasn't prevented the continued supply of the odd engine between the two companies, so long as they are covered by existing contracts which cannot be broken, but in most cases one has tried to get around old ties in order to enable each company to go it alone. Apart from a few exceptions regarding the supply of engines there already hasn't been any joint activity since 2005. I retired in 2005 and we already had no dealings with Fiat long before that.

 

[seth1]

As i understand it Alfa were'nt tied into anything with GM,the only connection was with their owners Fiat who got tied up with GM for the various reasons.The actual two stage turbo JTD was fitted a while defore SAAB used it, in Lancia Dedras,and if im not wrong Kappas.This was not a twin turbo unit.The actual original JTD as fitted to Stilos,Alfas etc in unijet and multijet form,whether 8 valve or 16 valve are 1910cc not as otherwise stated here,The latest 1956cc is extremly similar apart from volume and adoption of multijet 3(injects up to 8 times on the firing stroke , increased fuel pressure and adoption of a PM Kat).I would think it highly unlikely SAAB would be in any postion to start developing Diesel engines with their background.Funds?How long have SAAB actually been offering Diesel power?

 

[JonnyG]

@ Jonny G

As an Alfa Romeo owner of a few years there's more to GM/Fiat story than meets the eye. Alfa were tied into a deal with GM that saw the GM 3.2 V6 and 2.2 inline 4 going into the 159. The 156 2.4 JTD and 159 6 speed models sport a GM sourced gearbox. the 1.9 JTD and JTDm engines were shared with GM for the Vectra and SAAB 9.3. The new 2.0 diesel in both the Insignia and 159 is the same engine apart from the state of tune, this is a development of the original 1946cc engine now bored out to 1956cc. Alfa is given 170ps (168 bhp) and GM is 160ps, there is also reduction in the torque figure on the GM version. There was also meant to be a shared 'premio' platform between GM and Alfa but this fell by the wayside in 2005 when Alfa went alone on developing the 159 platform.
The more you look the more you'll find shared between the Fiat and GM stable, but with the aquisition of Chrysler by Fiat how long will the GM connection last??

Hi phill, As far as i am aware the 156 pre-dates any GM dealings and my 156 2.4 m jet as far as I am aware has a 6 speed box with no connection to GM..but its a funny world, also the development of the new 2.0l ,1956cc should be a development of the original 1910cc fiat engine and not 1946cc if we are talking Fiat as they had no such diesel in their previous range.I think. And just to be a little pedantic the 159 2.2 petrol has a GM 4 cylinder lump true, but the head was reworked by Alfa..themselves......LOL

 

[seth1]

The 2.4mjets use a gearbox made by manufacture Aissen known as a TF80SC,the 6 speeder has a lock up facility on 6th gear.Supposedly the only fwd box that is rated at the required torque.Complete waste of a brillant engine with this box fitted to it in my opinion.

 

[xtrailman]

Just to let you know a four wheel drive version with diesel is now available.
Normally front drive but drives to four on demand.

 

[TheTravellingRooster]

The very latest Vauhall Insignia CDTi Touring 4x4, wearing an Opel Badge,and described as an "All-wheel-drive" is on p73 November issue of Practical Caravan Magazine. It must be one hell of a tug!!!!!!,it has a reported kerbweight of 1843kgs,a MAXIMUM TOWING LIMIT of 1800kgs and is pulling a Tabbert Paganini,all 9.06mtrs length,2.5mtrs wide,with a MiRO of 1906kgs and an MTPLM of 2200kgs,the car has a Towball Limit of 85kgs,I wonder what the Tabbert puts down ?,if it was ballasted then that would have made the caravan partially loaded;making the towing limit figure of the Insignia, an even bigger joke. Oh and not displaying any Towing Mirrors!!!!! (it must have a camera set up via the connections !!!??).
The alleged blatant disregard for all the things that we have been Brainwashed with/about for years, was the fact that it was conducted on a Private Test Ground but driven by Mr Towcar, (Motty) David Motton. I wonder how long it will be!!,before someone gets knobbled and offers as a defence, in court :- It was shown in Practical Caravan Magazine in the November 2010 issue,so it 'must be OK'. I have read and followed their advice for many years.

 

[Lutz]

Note that the Opel Insignia 4x4, while having a regular maximum towload of 1800kg according to EU test procedure, is technically approved to tow up to 2000kg if restricted to 10% gradients. However, I cannot say whether Vauxhall also offer this concession for the UK market.

 

[TheTravellingRooster]

Hi Lutz. On the ball again. It(The Insignia,Vauxhall or Opel) won't tow a part loaded Tabbert Paganini through France onto the Costa Blanca without a Double Header(Railway Speak,Two Locomotives)arrangement will it?. I understand that the terrain is quite testing for even the Mitsubishi Shogun,Merc ML's and other heavy tugs. The 10% restriction of course in old money is a 1in10,not much good in The Highlands of Scotland or The Hills & Valleys of Wales. I will ring the Vauxhall Customer Services here in the UK tomorrow( Friday),and come back with my findings.

 

[Lutz]

As not everyone has the intention of towing in the Highlands or the Pyrenees, most German car manufacurers quote towing limits for 12%, 10%, and in some cases even 8% gradients. In practice, I can imagine that only the odd vehicle recovery on a low loader trailer in relatively flat country will take advantage of these higher limits although a colleague at work made use of the facility once to tow a large twin axle caravan behind his Opel Omega from the dealer to a nearby static site.