Vauxhall Zafira Tourer not rated to tow??.

[otherclive]

For your caravan all would meet the bill and give some additional margin should you go for a heavier caravan. At your budget you are unlikely to buy a ULEZ compliant diesel. Petrol cars will use more fuel, both towing and solo. The CRV have an excellent reputation for reliability. But really the choice is yours but my choice would be Kuga.

 

[Beachball]

I would think the Ford Kuga would be the best my friends had them from new and he loves it for towing but it your choice .

 

[RogerL]

For ULEZ compliance, you'll need a 2016-on car if you choose diesel as they have to be Euro 6 - a few 2015 models will qualify but you'll need to check the V5 regstration document or DVLA's vehicle check.

You can go significantly older with petrol which only has to be Euro 4 from 2006 (some 2005 models may comply).

It's not difficult to realise that the ULEZ requirements will change over time as new Euro emission regulations come out - I'd personally expect that petrols could change to Euro 5 (2011-on) any time soon.

 

[Sam Vimes]

OK we're starting to look at cars again. We haven't narrowed it down to one yet, but if anyone has views on the following, your advice is welcome!

Our Caravan is a Compass Merit Reflection 430/4 from 1994 (https://www.gocaravanning.com/caravan-specs/1571/Compass-Reflection-Merit-430-4-1994.html). Maximum allowable weight for the caravan is 1100kg.

We were towing it with a 2007 Citroen Xsara Picasso 1.6 petrol engine. The caravan was well within the legal limits, but the car was very old (approx 190k miles) and it was fine for a good few journeys on the flat, including some long journeys, but the clutch gave out on a hill in the Peak District. We are looking to replace it. Our budget is 8000 GBP. We could probably stretch that a couple hundred more if we had to - but we had orginally hoped to spend more like 6k, and we lost something like GBP 700 in the saga of this thread...so we'd rather not go much above 8k if we can avoid it.

With the second hand market being what it is, this seems to rather limit our choices. We are currently stranded in the caravan in Southampton - we're borrowing a car (that can't tow) until we get this sorted. The criteria we have been looking at 70,000 miles or less (ideally less if it's a petrol, perhaps a little more if it's a diesel but not much!), 2010 or more recent, at least 1.8cc engine or bigger largely so that it can *comfortably* tow 1100kg, decent size boot, within the budget, and the make and model have decent reviews on Which / Practical Caravan / WhatCar / other similar sites, especially for reliability, safety and fuel efficiency. We were looking for ULEZ compliant too, but are now thinking we might have to compromise on that. We want something in good working condition - obviously - but aren't bothered by a few scratches or dents. Ideally we'd like a warranty, and to buy from a dealer, but we're open to compromising on that too.

So far we've identified the following options:

* Vauxhall Zafira 2014, 69,650 miles, diesel manual, 2.0 CDTi Elite MPV 5dr Diesel Manual Euro 5 (165 ps), not ULEZ compliant, £8271 (but potentially willing to negotiate on price), braked tow weigh on VC5 shown as 1500kg, on VIN plate the GTW minus the MAM on vin plate is 1525kg. We have test driven this one and it didn't feel as powerful as I was expecting, but we seem to be well within its technical capacity. Claimed 53.3 mpg combined urban and extra-urban. Tax £180/yr.

* Ford Kuga 2012, 62,550 miles, diesel manual, 2.0 Tdci 163 Titanium 5Dr, not ULEZ compliant, £7995, GTW minus the MAM on vin plate is 2100kg, not seen this car in person yet. Claimed 47.10 mpg combined urban and extra-urban. Expensive tax - £240/yr.

* Honda CR-V, 64,500 miles, petrol automatic, 2.0 i-VTEC SE Auto 4WD Euro 5 5dr, ULEZ compliant, £7699, haven't seen the VIN plate (or car) yet. Doesn't have great reviews on Practical Caravan as a tow car, but that was for the 2WD, not sure how different the 4WD would be. Claimed 33.60 mpg combined urban and extra-urban. Very expensive tax - £365/yr.

* Mitsubishi Outlander, 93,000 miles, diesel manual, 2.2 DI-D GX4 4WD Euro 5 5dr, not ULEZ compliant, £6995, GTW minus the MAM on vin plate is 2100kg. Claimed 44.8 mpg combined urban and extra-urban. Not sure tax.

We also looked at a couple Mazda CX-5 cars but we haven't managed to fin done from a reputable dealer in decent condition yet.

If anyone has any immediate thoughts we go to view these cars tomorrow and the next day, really grateful to hear them.

This web site can give you some indication of how a car matches a specific caravan. It might help in your decision.

TowCarCalculator

Find out how your car and caravan match to ensure that your outfit is safe and comfortable to tow. Calculate speeds, road gradients and the stability of your caravan

towcar.info

FWIW: Until last year I was towing an 1100kg van with a 2012 Qashqai 1.5dCI. The combination worked well. Average mpg in the Highlands without caravan was about 63. With caravan about 35. Had to peddle a little harder up some of our hills but it got there

Changed last year to a 2018 Qashqai which has a slightly higher towing capacity. Still 1.5dCI and has an average mpg of about 72 mpg and at times on a longer run can get 85. Towing through the Highlands about 42-44mpg.

Beware - some cars with Smart Alternators, for fuel efficiency/poluution control, can kill the caravan battery and the fridge may not stay alive when towing. Found this out the hard way with the latest Qashqai.

 

[wyldeandfree]

Thank you all. Two quick follow up questions:

* Do you think we are pushing our luck with the Zafira Tourer even though we are technically in the limit? It has the lowest towing capacity of all the ones we are looking at...but seems to be a very well know and reliable dealer, and is in excellent condition.

* The 2WD petrol CRV has poor reviews for towing. Does anyone know whether the 4WD petrol is any good for towing particularly in terms of stability in wind etc? I'll do some more googling but so far haven't found much.

Thanks!

 

[wyldeandfree]

For ULEZ compliance, you'll need a 2016-on car if you choose diesel as they have to be Euro 6 - a few 2015 models will qualify but you'll need to check the V5 regstration document or DVLA's vehicle check.

You can go significantly older with petrol which only has to be Euro 4 from 2006 (some 2005 models may comply).

It's not difficult to realise that the ULEZ requirements will change over time as new Euro emission regulations come out - I'd personally expect that petrols could change to Euro 5 (2011-on) any time soon.

We have searched for Euro 6 diesel cars or for Euro 4 or Euro 5 petrol cars within our budget but within 40 miles of Southampton there is very very little choice. We would perhaps have to go to a private seller (an option) or look further afield. 8k feels like a huge amount of money to me but in the second hand car market apparently it is not! (Last time I bought a car was 2005, I bought it for 600 quid and it did me proud!!! 🤣)

 

[Sam Vimes]

Thank you all. Two quick follow up questions:

* Do you think we are pushing our luck with the Zafira Tourer even though we are technically in the limit? It has the lowest towing capacity of all the ones we are looking at...but seems to be a very well know and reliable dealer, and is in excellent condition.

* The 2WD petrol CRV has poor reviews for towing. Does anyone know whether the 4WD petrol is any good for towing particularly in terms of stability in wind etc? I'll do some more googling but so far haven't found much.

Thanks!

If you have some doubts over the Zafira then I'd forget it. Its likely to be constant worry as to 'did we buy the right car'.

 

[wyldeandfree]

We are also going to look at this Kia Sportage today.

Auto Trader UK - New and Used Cars For Sale

Find your next car with Auto Trader UK, the official #1 site to buy and sell new and used cars. Over 400,000 cars online. Simple, easy, quick!

www.autotrader.co.uk

Thanks for all the advice, I'll let you know once we have narrowed it down and ask for a final eye cast from anyone who is willing before we pay!

 

[Sam Vimes]

We have searched for Euro 6 diesel cars or for Euro 4 or Euro 5 petrol cars within our budget but within 40 miles of Southampton there is very very little choice. We would perhaps have to go to a private seller (an option) or look further afield. 8k feels like a huge amount of money to me but in the second hand car market apparently it is not! (Last time I bought a car was 2005, I bought it for 600 quid and it did me proud!!! 🤣)

Consider buying on-line or further afield.

The nearest large collection of dealers to us is 150 miles away. I looked on line and could have bought the car and had it delivered, even with a return option if not happy. In the end we went to the dealer and bought it.

Because we were doing a trade in and the new car wasn't ready, they offered foc, to deliver it and take the old one back.

In talking to the delivery driver, he said they are doing this all the time all over the UK and that's from north to south.

 

[wyldeandfree]

Consider buying on-line or further afield.

The nearest large collection of dealers to us is 150 miles away. I looked on line and could have bought the car and had it delivered, even with a return option if not happy. In the end we went to the dealer and bought it.

Because we were doing a trade in and the new car wasn't ready, they offered foc, to deliver it and take the old one back.

In talking to the delivery driver, he said they are doing this all the time all over the UK and that's from north to south.

Oh wow OK...that's useful. The dealer we bought from before said he sells most of his cars online. But then he also told us a whole bunch of lies including that he put the car registration in our name which DVLA confirms he never did. Maybe the online sales bit was true though!

 

[Hutch]

I am a big liker of the Korean cars, I think the Sportage would make a fine tow car for you. They are very comfortable and reliable. Match it up to your caravan on one of the tow car matchers.

 

[RogerL]

Beware - some cars with Smart Alternators, for fuel efficiency/poluution control, can kill the caravan battery and the fridge may not stay alive when towing. Found this out the hard way with the latest Qashqai.

Most modern cars have smart alternators - Ford have been fitting them since about 2000 - issues with caravan fridge/battery are down to incorrect choice of towing electrics as some towbar fitters aren't up to speed.

* Do you think we are pushing our luck with the Zafira Tourer even though we are technically in the limit? It has the lowest towing capacity of all the ones we are looking at...but seems to be a very well know and reliable dealer, and is in excellent condition.

From a purely towing point of view it's always better to have a towing limit well above your needs to give you a contingency margin - BUT - we all buy cars for a combination of several purposes so they're always a compromise.

 

[otherclive]

This web site can give you some indication of how a car matches a specific caravan. It might help in your decision.

TowCarCalculator

Find out how your car and caravan match to ensure that your outfit is safe and comfortable to tow. Calculate speeds, road gradients and the stability of your caravan

towcar.info

FWIW: Until last year I was towing an 1100kg van with a 2012 Qashqai 1.5dCI. The combination worked well. Average mpg in the Highlands without caravan was about 63. With caravan about 35. Had to peddle a little harder up some of our hills but it got there

Changed last year to a 2018 Qashqai which has a slightly higher towing capacity. Still 1.5dCI and has an average mpg of about 72 mpg and at times on a longer run can get 85. Towing through the Highlands about 42-44mpg.

Beware - some cars with Smart Alternators, for fuel efficiency/poluution control, can kill the caravan battery and the fridge may not stay alive when towing. Found this out the hard way with the latest Qashqai.

I have found Towcar.info probably the best matching site. It told me that my 2.0 litre 150 bhp Subaru petrol would be high revving when towing 1300 kg yet its rating was 2000kg. In that respect it was spot on. As we hadn’t bought the car for towing we then decided to change cars. That website allows quite as few options on payload, MTPLM, MIRO and noseweight too. It was accurate for my last three combinations.

 

[otherclive]

I am a big liker of the Korean cars, I think the Sportage would make a fine tow car for you. They are very comfortable and reliable. Match it up to your caravan on one of the tow car matchers.

I’d add the Tucson or Santa Fe to Hutch’s suggestion as they are basically the same as their Kia equivalent.

Don’t rule out VAG group cars such as Skoda who always seem to do well in Towcar awards. Octavia perhaps ?

 

[RogerL]

I’d add the Tucson or Santa Fe to Hutch’s suggestion as they are basically the same as their Kia equivalent.

Don’t rule out VAG group cars such as Skoda who always seem to do well in Towcar awards. Octavia perhaps ?

Skoda Yeti shares it's underpinnings with the Octavia, and the VW Golf, to give an alternative bodystyle.

 

[Buckman]

Our grandson made the mistake of buying Online. They delivered the vehicle charging mileage as it was beyond their 10 mile limit. The delivery driver gave the impression that he was in a hurry so grandson took vehicle for a short drive and all good.

Later the same day with family on board they went for a longer drive and the car locked up in 4th and had to be towed back to their house. I advised him to request a refund. On checking the paperwork written on the invoice was "sold as seen"?

At first dealership hassled and said tough it was his fault, but when sent the Which rejection letter, the dealership then offered him all sort of nice things like a 6 month warranty etc ( everything that is covered by CRA 2015 anyway) so he agreed to let them take back the vehicle for repair despite my advice. The car is a 2009 Peugeot 304 with 85k on the clock.

Time will tell if he made the correct decision. Beware of buying unseen unless it is a reputable dealer with a history and the car AA or similar approved.

 

[Sam Vimes]

Most modern cars have smart alternators - Ford have been fitting them since about 2000 - issues with caravan fridge/battery are down to incorrect choice of towing electrics as some towbar fitters aren't up to speed

Apologies for the deviation from the OPs question - however the above is not necessarily true. I have dedicated electrics to match the car, installed last year and it doesn't work completely when towing. This is a problem reported on many cars while others have no problem.

The underlying problem in many cases is that the car cannot detect that a caravan/trailer is connected and that the smart function should be turned off. Mine knows the caravan is connected but the Smart Function still operates and drops the 12Vdc to the caravan. This results in the caravan battery feeding back into the car.

Other problem is that the 12Vdc from the car to the caravan drops sufficiently, due to poor wiring in the caravan, that the fridge turns off.

 

[ProfJohnL]

When choosing a tow vehicle, it can be useful to think about how much towing vs solo driving you do, as this may lead you to a better choice in the long run.

Obviously you have to find a vehicle that can tow your caravan, but the best tow vehicles, may be less comfortable and economic solo, and equally the best vehicle to drive solo for comfort and economy , probably won't be the best at towing.

If you spend less than 10% of your driving towing, then I'd suggest you focus on a car for solo driving, but if your moving your caravan every weekend, then focus on towing.

Don't be tempted to think you need a 4x4 to tow a caravan. It's not essential and realistically well over 90% of UK caravanner's never encounter conditions where a 4x4 is essential. They are going to be less efficient to run, and cost more to maintain simply because they have more moving parts.

Given your recent experience, I suggest you use a dealer, simply because you'll have far better consumer protection, and you will get a warranty deal.

Considering your budget, I also doubt you will get ULEZ compliant vehicle.

 

[Buckman]

Apologies for the deviation from the OPs question - however the above is not necessarily true. I have dedicated electrics to match the car, installed last year and it doesn't work completely when towing. This is a problem reported on many cars while others have no problem.

The underlying problem in many cases is that the car cannot detect that a caravan/trailer is connected and that the smart function should be turned off. Mine knows the caravan is connected but the Smart Function still operates and drops the 12Vdc to the caravan. This results in the caravan battery feeding back into the car.

Other problem is that the 12Vdc from the car to the caravan drops sufficiently, due to poor wiring in the caravan, that the fridge turns off.

Fit the Sterlong Wildside charfer to overcome this issue.

 

[otherclive]

I echo Prof Johns advice about buying from a dealer. You now have real life experience of the protection CRA 2015 both with the Zafira and Buckmans grandsons car purchase. In both cases the outcome would probably have been very different had they been private purchases, where consumer protection laws are virtually nil.

 

[RogerL]

Apologies for the deviation from the OPs question - however the above is not necessarily true. I have dedicated electrics to match the car, installed last year and it doesn't work completely when towing. This is a problem reported on many cars while others have no problem.

The underlying problem in many cases is that the car cannot detect that a caravan/trailer is connected and that the smart function should be turned off. Mine knows the caravan is connected but the Smart Function still operates and drops the 12Vdc to the caravan. This results in the caravan battery feeding back into the car.

Other problem is that the 12Vdc from the car to the caravan drops sufficiently, due to poor wiring in the caravan, that the fridge turns off.

There may be the odd car that has an inbuilt design fault but I'll stand by my generalisation that it's an installation fault that can/should be corrected - in a number of cases the car's electronics need recoding.

Some towbar fitters just use a cheap voltage-sensitive relay to detect when the alternator is charging - this is simply inadequate if a smart alternator is fitted - and competent towbar fitters should know that.

Take it back to where the towbar was fitted and get them to correct it.

 

[Sam Vimes]

I don't want to derail this thread any further with the technicalities, so let me just say that I've investigated this issue considerably and its not as straightforward as you suggest.

The only solution for me as Buckman suggests is to install a DC-DC Convertor in the caravan. These can cost a couple of hundred pounds and its not worth it for me. I just disconnect the battery and turn the fridge off when towing.

 

[Beachball]

I also think the Hyundai ix 35 would make a great tow car and you might be able to get used one in your area .

 

[otherclive]

I also think the Hyundai ix 35 would make a great tow car and you might be able to get used one in your area .

That’s a rather”off grid” suggestion BB but an interesting one nevertheless.

Used Tow Car Test: Hyundai ix35 (2009-15) - Practical Caravan

For great value, you can't beat the Hyundai IX35 for reliability and comfort as a tow car, says Practical Caravan

www.practicalcaravan.com

 

[RogerL]

For the OP's benefit, Hyundai Tucson and Hyundai iX35 were just different generations of the same car - Hyundai's used to have names, then switched to numbers and now switched back!