Water inlet / fully serviced pitch

[Ukdave2002]

We are planning to go to a site with a fully serviced pitch. Wanting to take advantage of the water supply , I'm trying to get my head round what's required, initial thoughts were to obtain a float valve to keep the Aqua roll topped up, but was thrown when I spotted the label on the inside cover of our water inlet, marked "Direct To Tap" really? is the internal plumbing up to main pressure? would I not have to disable the various electric pumps?

 

[Mr Plodd]

Stick to your original thought, mains pressure in a caravans plumbing system could blow one of the joints apart when your out for the day.
You can get a pressure reducer etc, but why bother?

 

[Paullus1959]

This is a link to the Truma site.

Truma Ultraflow Range - Inform now

With Truma you can take hot water for granted in your RV: Ultraflow heats water to just the right temperature in no time at all.

www.truma.com

I believe caravan water systems are rated at around 1.5 BAR and this is as Mr Plodd says, achieved with pressure reducers. If you applied mains pressure which is rated at between 2-4 BAR you would definitely end up with a very wet caravan.
I think the label points you to the last item on the Truma site, the Truma Ultraflow Waterline.
The float valve in the Aquaroll combined with either a submersible pump or internal pump if fitted, is probably the most popular choice though.

​

 

[Hutch]

The three pictures that you show, are for the outside shower, the cover has come from an Water inlet connector, you can see the difference in the colour. The second shows stuck on labels on the back of the cover. The third shows a shower connection, there are no electrical connectors. I think possibly the previous owner has modified a shower connector to either supply a water flow out from the caravan , OR, their own mod to supply water inlet from a water hose supply.

 

[Ukdave2002]

The second shows stuck on labels on the back of the cover. The third shows a shower connection, there are no electrical connectors.

I did wonder what the shower symbol was for!, why would one require electrical connections on the inlet? unless there was an external pump fitted?

 

[Hutch]

I did wonder what the shower symbol was for!, why would one require electrical connections on the inlet? unless there was an external pump fitted?

It would work as a feed into the caravan if it had the shower fitting attached to a hose line onto a tap. There is a non return valve that the fitting opens inside the van, normally the inlet from the Truma pump has a on the back a connecting pipe to the shower.
Have a look at the back of the shower fitting and see where the pipe goes to.

 

[Hutch]

Do you have another connector like this one, this is for an aqua roll pump or just a draw pipe.

 

[Ukdave2002]

There is no other water inlet, a simple draw pipe for the Aqua roll , internal water pumps that looking at the Swift electrical schematic looks standard, I'll check for the non return valve.

Penny has dropped vis the electrical connections; some units have the pump in the aqua roll , others in the van.

 

[Buckman]

We have been using direct mains for several years without any issues. We did try the float system but decided the direct mains was simpler and easier and no need to carry the aquaroll or wastemaster. The correct direct water mains feed as a pressure reducer built into it so no blown inyternal pipes.

 

[Hutch]

Truma water line ok so you have just a draw pipe and internal pump, you could use a hose with a pressure reducer into the connector, as per the link, or an Aqua roll, float valve and the draw pipe, everyone has their own preferences.

 

[GaryB]

Just a tip if using an Aquaroll float valve and that is to use the more expensive/genuine type. I bought a cheap copy and it leaked from pretty much every connection on it!

 

[izzy]

We carry the float valve and hose in a bag in the corner of the front locker for if we drop on a fully serviced pitch and it has been quite useful on a few occasions and has always been reliable.
I think it best to try and cover most bases.

 

[Raywood]

The safe bet is the float inside the Aquaroll as this has the pressure at the correct level. Lots of people do connect direct to the caravan but it is an unneccessary risk.

 

[Buckman]

The safe bet is the float inside the Aquaroll as this has the pressure at the correct level. Lots of people do connect direct to the caravan but it is an unneccessary risk.

Why would it be an unnecessary risk?

 

[ProfJohnL]

The safe bet is the float inside the Aquaroll as this has the pressure at the correct level. Lots of people do connect direct to the caravan but it is an unneccessary risk.

I quite agree. I know from my contacts within the industry whilst the incidence of pressure reducer failures is quite low, its not seen by the industry as a reason to stop using them. However if you ask the few customers who have suffered the failures, they would have a rather different opinion.

The failures where the regulator fails to reduce the mains supply fed to the caravan have blown pipework and damaged water heaters resulting in flooding parts of the caravan.

From my perspective, whilst the risk of regulator failure is low, the consequence of the failure is as far as the owner is concerned high, and expensive. All the pipe work joints need to be remade in case they have been stressed to the point of weakening, water heaters have been damaged and may need replacing.

This risk is completely removed by using the float valve.

There is are often two other issues with using the typical in line pressure reducer, The first is there are many reports that say the flow of water is poorer compared to the standard water pumps, , and secondly if the site pressure is variable and drops significantly when a lot of other caravanners are using the water, the pressure and flow can reduce and become an inconvenience especially if showering

 

[Buckman]

A float valve in the aquaroll can still flood the caravan just as much so basically no difference.

 

[Ukdave2002]

A float valve in the aquaroll can still flood the caravan just as much so basically no difference.

I suppose you could add an overflow to the aqua roll?

 

[Ukdave2002]

A simple and cheap solution to protect against the fail of a pressure reducing valve or a sticking float valve would be to add a pressure release valve in the exterior pipework, down stream from the PRV/ Float valve.
Edit, It could also be fitted inside the caravan with an external drain.

Pressure Relief Valve 1-3bar 1/2" x 1/2" - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. To avoid over-pressure. Can be used on combi boilers, unvented systems and sealed systems. FREE next day delivery available, free collection in 1 minute.

www.screwfix.com

 

[Buckman]

I suppose you could add an overflow to the aqua roll?

Not sure how that would make any difference?

A simple and cheap solution to protect against the fail of a pressure reducing valve or a sticking float valve would be to add a pressure release valve in the exterior pipework, down stream from the PRV/ Float valve.
Edit, It could also be fitted inside the caravan with an external drain.

If one is going to worry about everything instead of relaxing, one might as well give up using a caravan.

 

[Hutch]

A float valve in the aquaroll can still flood the caravan just as much so basically no difference.

At least with the aqua roll and float valve, you can just turn off the pump when you go out. With the fixed hose, then you have to turn it off at the tap, when you go out. As BB says each to their own.

 

[Buckman]

At least with the aqua roll and float valve, you can just turn off the pump when you go out. With the fixed hose, then you have to turn it off at the tap, when you go out. As BB says each to their own.

Yep as said, no difference.

 

[ProfJohnL]

A float valve in the aquaroll can still flood the caravan just as much so basically no difference.

That is incorrect an illogical.

The failure of a float valve un an external water carrier, or in an internal tank provided it has an adequate overflow facility, would not flood a caravan as the excess water would be discharged outside the caravan. It would not flood the caravan.

However if a mains water pressure reducer regulator failed on a direct hose connection, there is no over flow system, and if the excess pressure causes a pipe fitting or appliance to burst. it will always result in a flood.

 

[Buckman]

I cannot understand why a certain poster thinks that a statement made by myself regarding the float system is incorrect and illogical? If a pipe comes loose inside the caravan, the float system will flood the caravan the same way as a direct mains connection.

This more likely than the regulator or the float system being failing and I can talk from experience on two different occasions and with two different caravans!

 

[Dustydog]

My caravan was built 15 years ago. Out of deference for her age and creaking bones I don’t use the direct mains connection.

If I did and an internal pipe failed , the onboard pump would sense the pressure drop and turn on feeding the breakage causing a flood.If the pipe failure was between the pump and entry point flooding would stil occur.

In my situation, using the aquaroll float system is safe. There is no pump in the aquaroll only a filter. We actually had a float failure earlier this year and only the aquaroll overflowed.
However Buckman raised a very valid point which he subsequently qualified. If a pipe within my caravan after the pump failed I will get flooded !A failed pipe before the pump,I’ll be ok
Reviewing the thread I see it is only the prof who talks about “float failure” so not quite sure what that point was about🤔😵‍💫

 

[Ukdave2002]

I think we are talking about slightly different things! or from different perspectives.

Clearly if a pipe or joint fails within the van, there is likely to be a flood, that's the outcome but we were talking about the cause, and how to minimise failures.

As I see it (and appreciate I am a newbie!):
A pipe or joint failure is more likely if the internal pressure is increased beyond its design. The increase in pressure could be because a PRV fails or if a float sticks in a aqua roll, causing it to fill and if its sealed rise to the same pressure as the mains water, as a consequence the pressure in the van pipework is potentially at main pressure. Looking at mine, in reality its unlikely to rise to mains pressure as the drop pipe /cap seal would never hold mains pressure.

I stand by my previous suggestions:
1) If an overflow is fitted to the aqua roll, it will work in exactly the same way as domestic toilet cistern and simply expel the excess water from the roll, pressure can not then build up in the roll.

2) If a £5 pressure relief valve is fitted into the caravan water pipes, with an external outlet, whatever the water supply system is, the pressure in the van pipework can be controlled regardless of any external component failure.

Push fit water joints and plastic pipes are pretty standard in UK newbuilds, and have been for the last 20+ years, working a full main pressure without any greater failure than traditional copper soldered joints. Clearly a house is not subject to the vibrations that a mobile van is, so it makes sense to keep the pressure lower than mains, however, if the pipes are properly secured, I'd imagine failures should be minimal?