Weighing in at the bridge (competition time)

[Beachball]

No never ever weighed my caravan , or any caravan we've had over the years, or noseweight .To qualify we load the car not the van and have a Navara so plenty of spare capacity but we've never done so with any caravan. Never even seen a roadside check let alone been stopped. First time for everything but ......We obey the nothing heavy in the rear but we have nothing heavy in there anyway, awning and booze in the car. Only one gas, if we're looking like running out we take the other in the truck.

I am in agreement with you never weighed my caravan or caravans in the past all our stuff goes in the car my Tiguan has plenty of space and we load the clothes in fold up boxes or big bags same with food /cooler our new awning goes over the axle in the caravan at present we have two gas but might go down to one .

 

[DaveA1]

I've never taken my van to a weigh bridge, weighed the motor once when I had some scrap metal to get rid of, Motor has a relatively low towing limit, so kerb weigh irrelevant.
Like others I load the car, awning, waste/carrier, tinnies, etc. I travel light.
Only cloths, gas two calor lite, levelling blocks food for a couple of days, plus essential fluids, and crockery.
Never been stopped, but I would expect the whole outfit to be weighed to check train weight, then separated to see how that weight is distributed, between car and van.

I only check the nose weight regularly, as my axle weight can be increased by 85gk when towing, which is my tow bar weight,( the most important task) and easily checked. . every thing else is kept to the minimum.

 

[Parksy]

Where did you get your information on legality from? If you read the DVSA rights on HMG website you can see what ².

DVSA can issue prohibition notices, or on the spot fines, so why would anyone wish to tempt fate and refuse to uncouple the caravan. I am not sufficiently knowledgable about the subtleties of weighing HGVs and caravan outfits, its not something I ever discussed with two of my HGV driving ex SILs. but it is not that relevant.

DVSA can issue prohibition notices, or on the spot fines, so why would anyone wish to tempt fate and refuse to uncouple the caravan. I am not sufficiently knowledgable about the subtleties of weighing HGVs and caravan outfits, its not something I ever discussed with two of my HGV driving ex SILs. but it is not that relevant.

The DVSA and the police can both issue prohibition notices.
When I drove articulated lorries I was only pulled in for a weight check once.
I didn't have to drop the trailer, I just drove very slowly over the weighing strip which checked each axle as I went over.
The respective weights were checked against the plated weights.
I was ok as it happened, no issues with the truck so I was good to go.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Legally I doubt very much if they would have been able to demand that you uncouple. They can ask, but you can refuse. Do they ask artics to uncouple? I think you came across some bored officials.

I think you will find that if the officials have a reasonable suspicion that a trailer or a tug are in contravention of their load limits, they can do almost anything to ascertain the truth.

Nothing wrong with two separate units, but they never travelled separately on the road. I would think that if they were checked separately it may be difficult to prosecute.
As said I would be grateful for such a free check as it gives you confidence in yourself.

It may seem difficult to those who don't bother about their responsibilities to load correctly, but in practice its very logical and would be perfectly prosecutable to take combined and separated weighing's into account.

You can be certain the VOSA guy's doing the job will be well versed in the way that load limits have to be applied to caravans and tow vehicles, and how to combine the results from weight testing.

Ste6to9 is taking the issue of loading very seriously and want's to get it right - a few other contributors could do well to follow his example, rather than confessing they don't care. They certainly would care if stopped and found to be over loaded, and faced a fine or prohibition of continuing a journey. or even formal prosecution.

I believe that in practice where small overloads are detected, and there is scope to re distribute the officers may use discretion and advise the driver to rearrange things before allowing the journey to continue.

Careless, persistent or deliberate offenders can often be spotted and are more likely to face the full force of the law even for minor discrepancies.

Care and planning will avoid any legal loading issues , and it will enhance the overall safety of your driving experience.

 

[Ste6t9]

Sorry to open up this can of worms (although I don't think the lid was ever back on)

Re loaded with the roof box and ditributed a few things differently and this time Mrs Ste and the kids came along for the ride too. The figures are making me think that the Outlander may be too close to its limits. All advice happily received. - I'll try post the readings and my measurements below. I'm well within the train limits and probably wouldn't take everything but it all seems a bit close.

Car Front Axle	1080
Car Rear Axle	1170
Nose Weight	90
Van Front Axle	940
Van Rear Axle	770				Difference
			Car Gross Limit	2290	40
Car Gross Weight	2250		Car Train Limit	4390	430
Van Gross Weight (inc. Nose weight)	1800		Car Front Limit	1150	70
			Car Rear Limit	1250	80
Gross Train Weight	3960		Van MTPLM	1800	0

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Steve

Lets be clear, were all there measurement taken with the caravan coupled to the car, full fuel and all people and luggage.?

If so the Car front axle plus rear axle does give 2250kg and is within the cars 2290GV

Measurement	Measured Value	Limit Criteria	Limit Value	In/Out Limits	Variance
Coupled Cars front axle	1080	Front axle limit	1150	Within Limit	-70kg
Coupled Cars rear axle	1170	Rear axle limit	1250	Within Limit	-80kg
Coupled Cars total load	F axle +R axle = 2250kg	GVW	2290	Within Limit	-40kg
Caravans Road wheels	+940 +770 = 1710kg	Towed weight	GTW-GVW 2100	Within Limit	-390kg
Caravans Nose load	90kg	Nose Load at working hitch height	NCC advisory limits 5% MTPLM =90kg 7% MTPLM =126	Within Range	Depends on "S" value of hitch
Caravans total weight	Axle loads +Noseload 1800kg	MTPLM	1800	Within Limit	Zero
Total outfits weight	1710 + 2250 = 3960kg	GTW	4390	Within Limit	-430kg
Kerb weight	1860
NCC towing ratio advice	(1800-1860) x100 = 97%	(MTPLM/Kerbweight) x 100%	Novice 85% Expert 100%	Above novice Below expert	+12% Novice -3% Expert

Assuming the cars measurements were taken with the caravan coupled, and all people and luggage and full washers and fuel tank were as ready for a journey, then according to your figures you would be legal.

However, you are definitely working towards the top of certain limits and that could pose a problem, especially with the caravans MTPLM where you have zero additional capacity.

According to your figures your NCC derived towing ratio is 97% and that is right are the top of the expert towers suggestion.

You should also factor in what tends to happen on holidays when tourist trinkets and items are collected, a few beach pebbles could see you over one or more of the limits.

My feeling is its doable, but you will need to be ultra strict about adding any new items collected whilst on holiday. In my opinion you do need to review the choice of either or both the car and caravan to get more of weight bias in favour of the tow car.

I should also stress that whilst this might be legal in terms of weights and loads, there is no guarantee the outfit will tow nicely. That is so dependant on how you load the car and caravan, just looking at a spread sheet can't give you a copper bottomed thumbs up.

 

[Ste6t9]

Cheers. To be fair, it towed great. I have gone through my packing list however and removed several items from the van (and car) and then moved the awning into the car. That should then give me wiggle room.

This was certainly everything and the kitchen sink.

 

[Ste6t9]

Cheers. To be fair, it towed great. I have gone through my packing list however and removed several items from the van (and car) and then moved the awning into the car. That should then give me wiggle room.

This was certainly everything and the kitchen sink.

Also, forgot to say, the S value on the hitch is 120kg

 

[otherclive]

Also, forgot to say, the S value on the hitch is 120kg

Cannot recall anyone who has put in such an effort to assess their outfit. Congratulations. As you have said the figures are within “ spec” but close in some areas, although you were maxed out. And your outfit tows satisfactorily. It’s a difficult call. Jazzer towed a caravan with a Duster and by most advise it shouldn’t have worked, but it did.
Only you can decide whether to continue with the Outlander or go for a heavier car. What you don’t need are ongoing niggles. “ am I still in limits or not?” every time you load up.

 

[Ste6t9]

As previously stated, I weighed this time with absolutely everything. Therefore now, having removed several items that we won't need on certain trips - I have definitely lost 65kg so that gives me some breathing space. also means I can space things out evenly enough to avoid being at any limit (hopefully).

Definitely needed to as well because both van axles have a limit of 900kg so I was very much over on the front and quite a way under on the back.