What Towbar Stuff do I need

[Gordon_374469888]

I have bought a Bailey Bretagne. To date I have single electrics towbar for boat trailer. I believe I now need double electrics?

Caravan guy told me I need single electrics 13 pin. Towbar place told me I need 13 pin plus another socket for fridge to work while driving and something else to stop car battery being drained.

HELP please.

Gordon

 

[Jaydug]

The two guys haven't been honest with you. If you have a single socket (called the 12N) that is working all your road lights correctly, then the cheapest way out for you is to fit a second secket (called the 12S) which will work your fridge and battery charging. Note the two sockets are different and not interchangeable.

Best way to wire the 12S is to take a fused cable of at least 2.5mm square from the car's battery, to the rear of the car and connected to a Smartcom relay. That relay will charge your caravan battery and run your fridge when the car's engine is running, but not when the engine is switched off. Were you to use wiring which is not thick enough will give you poor performance on your battery charging and fridge cooling.

Of course, your old 12N and the new 12S can be incorporated in a new 13pin socket, just as your dealer and towbar man have said.

 

[NigelHutson]

Is your caravan new? If so, it will be fitted with a 13-pin plug. The two options are:

1. Have the car fitted with a 13-pin plug, and then use your boat trailer with an adaptor so that the lights will work on that.

2. Have the 12S socket fitted as posted above, and use your caravan with an adaptor. Both adaptors are available from caravan dealers.

Personally, whilst it will be more expensive, I would go the route of the 13-pin socket on the car. The adaptor for the boat trailer is a solid one to two inch piece which is neat and secure. The other adaptors have leads and are of course more prone to damage. I must admit that I was against the 13-pin system when it was first here, but I wouldn't go back now as the coupling seems much more secure and positive, and also the lead on the caravan stores much better than the two 7-pin ones ever did.

If your caravan is not new, it might be fitted with the two 7-pin leads, in which case, the obvious route is adding a 12S.

 

[Glenn_5132962]

The new pageant has 13 pin electrics as standard.

Best bet is to ask a towbar fitter to add the "grey" plug electrics to your car (which gives battery charging, fridge operation, reversing lights & importantly for a pageant - a 12v power supply to the ATC system. BUT instead of using a grey plug get the fitter to combine this wiring into a new 13pin socket on the car. Then get an adaptor to go back to the old system for the boat. The adaptor fits neatly into the new socket.

 

[Gordon_374469888]

OK and thanks for input. I usually call my IT dep't when things get technical so please bear with me. Firstly, brand new 2010 van.

If I buy a 13 pin adaptor and use this with my existing 7 pin on the car will this 1. work the all the lights? 2. charge the battery? 3. Work the ATC? 4. Power the fridge?

I'm not fussed about the fridge as I think we're unlikely to pack that before heading off. Also if the battery charges off the hookup at the site I'm reasonably relaxed. The other two seen essential. To get started I would like to keep it as simple as possible with as few plugs as possible but I need to know what I require to get from the caravan shop to the storage site.

Ongoing help in the face of apparent stupidity is greatly appreciated.

G

 

[Damian]

Gordon, no it will not do all the requirements from one single car socket.

The car socket you have now is a black 12N which only supplies the road lighting, nothing else.

You need the 12S , or preferably the 13pin connector fitted to your car for th eextra 12v supplies for fridge, ATC and battery charging.

Do NOT just accept the towbar fitters word that he will fit a car specific 13pin setup, insist on the proper setup with all pins connected as needed, as many of th ecar specific setups omit the fridge and battery charging circuits.

Go to this website: http://www.sargentltd.co.uk/ISO11446_Data.pdf

and download the wiring diagram for the 13 pin socket and give it to your fitter and tell him to wire exactly as per diagram

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi gordon

damian has beat me to it, I have been trying to post a wiring diagram of the 13pin socket on to the forum without sucess but his link will do nicely.

the problem you have as far as I can see is the van will have a fully wired 13 pin plug and the car has only one 12N black road lights plug. the boat trailer will of course only the black plug. in reality you have only 3 options as I would strongly advise the car is fully wired from the outset.

option 1. buy a fly lead that converts one 13pin socket into two plugs one black like the car and one white. this will get you from the shop to the storage without any mods as you only need to plug in the black plug for road lights ect but remember because the white plug is not connected the ATC won't work but it will be mobile. once in storage get a white socket fitted to the car ASAP when towing the van use the fly lead with both plugs connected, the boat trailer will work as normal with just the black plug.

option 2. ditch the black plug on the car and have a fully wired 13pin socket fitted "as damian suggests" to tow the van with. the boat trailer will need the 12N plug removed and replaced with a 13pin plug with only the lights pins connected "as diagram".

option 3. have the 13pin socket fitted to the car but retain the black 12N socket for the boat (it is possible but more complcated).

personally I would go for option 1. the fly lead and a white socket for the car as this is more versatile and nothing has to be modified you could then tow any trailer no matter what the socket configuration was.

colin.

one thought just occured to me while reading the post your new van will have a alko or winterhoff stabilising hitch with friction pads that require a dry immaculate clean alko ball to be fitted. any grease or dirt will contaminate the pads. if the boat or any other trailer has a greasy hitch the ball MUST be cleaned thoughly before hitching up the van.

 

[JTQ]

I see only one sound technical option, that is to have the car correctly fitted with a 13 pin socket. Any other option is a compromise.

Reasons:

There is a well documented inherent weakness in the ability of the white 12S socket, this is that it can burn out the centre pin carrying the fridge load. This is caused by two interacting things; a high current and a mechanical loosening of the centre pin as it also servers as a guide when coupling.

Adopting the 13 pin system means only a single connection is involved in all the wires; this is much better where high currents are involved than the inevitable doubling of the number of contact any adaptor based system offers. Very high currents are involved in the powering of the ATC and to a lesser extent the fridge and the battery.

When towing the boat you would need an adaptor to convert from the cars now 13 pin to the boats 7 pin or much better and quite simple have a 13 pin put on the boat.

AS Damien points out the 13 pin on the car must be the full house job not the abridged wiring done by Ford and BMW, two I know about, there may be others.

The car will also require which ever way you go special relays to isolate the fridge and battery when the ignition is off, but the fitter ought to be very aware of this.

Finally as you have the ATC the sustained 12 volt feed must be wired and fused for 25 amps, rather than the normal 15 amps most cars are supplied with.

Cheers John, have fun with your new toy but I know you will.

 

[Gordon_374469888]

OK, I think the full boona 13 pin on the car and a new connection on the other trailer seems to be the simplest way ahead.

If I understand correctly, this single connection will then do all four functions and can include an appropriate relay as specified, which should provide an adequate level of idiot proofing for me.

 

[JTQ]

OK, I think the full boona 13 pin on the car and a new connection on the other trailer seems to be the simplest way ahead.

If I understand correctly, this single connection will then do all four functions and can include an appropriate relay as specified, which should provide an adequate level of idiot proofing for me.

IMO that is the logical, most reliable and least user hassle route.

The relay, ether a single two pole or twin relays has to be put in when wiring the supplementary functions to the 13 pin socket but any reputable installer will know this; still I would just ask that its included to be sure. These relays are excited by the circuit that enables the cars "ignition" so power is only provided to the two high amperage feeds in the 13 pin socket when the engine ought to be running. If they were enabled prior to that the cars battery could be quickly drained; its only to protect from that happening,say if you left the car/caravan parked and went for a meal, nothing more complicated.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi gordon

quote" OK, I think the full boona 13 pin on the car and a new connection on the other trailer seems to be the simplest way ahead"

yes this is probably the best option if you are confident that the van and boat is the only two things you will ever tow? however if not instead of changing the boat plug to 13pin buy an adaptor and keep it in the car just in case.