Another newbie question. Which is best for mainly fair weather use...Butane or Propane, and the best way to fill them up / exchange?. Simon.
Which Gas?
- Thread starter PHOENIXFLIER
- Start date
My preference is propane, butane costs less but perhaps factoring in the calorific value of the gases (propane gives more heatenergy) might influence cost calculations.
For me, the cost difference is not significant based on the amount of gas I use, and I always have that 'cold weather performance' should I need it.
Off grid, outside of cold temperature conditions butane may well be the best and most cost effective option.
Not sure if my response helps your question at all
I don't weigh the "full" cylinders I buy, but I have heard that the contents do not always match the weight described.
Overall, here in Scotland, Calor is probably the most readily available, carrying a spare of whatever brand usually obviates any difficulties in re-supply.
For me, the cost difference is not significant based on the amount of gas I use, and I always have that 'cold weather performance' should I need it.
Off grid, outside of cold temperature conditions butane may well be the best and most cost effective option.
Not sure if my response helps your question at all
I don't weigh the "full" cylinders I buy, but I have heard that the contents do not always match the weight described.
Overall, here in Scotland, Calor is probably the most readily available, carrying a spare of whatever brand usually obviates any difficulties in re-supply.
Thanks, you are right....still not sure! Either way, us "Southern Softies" need the max. amount of therms we can get our hands on, even though we only go outside when it is at least 25 degrees + B) B) B) B)
Propane.
Are you going off grid mostly, or using EHU?
If off grid worth looking at a refillable like Safefill, 6 fills pays for the bottle.
If on EHU it comes down to do you need the weight reduction of a Calorlite bottle, if not a bog standard bottle will do.
To circumvent, this is now going to cause uproar on here so get your PPE on :evil: , the nonsensical hire agreement with Calor; get a bottle from your local tip / e-bay / gumtree and use Go Outdoors to refill it.
We have just changed our first Calorlite bottle after 65 nights away including all year use of the oven, hob & Cadac on the external gas connection. We use mostly EHU.
HTH
Are you going off grid mostly, or using EHU?
If off grid worth looking at a refillable like Safefill, 6 fills pays for the bottle.
If on EHU it comes down to do you need the weight reduction of a Calorlite bottle, if not a bog standard bottle will do.
To circumvent, this is now going to cause uproar on here so get your PPE on :evil: , the nonsensical hire agreement with Calor; get a bottle from your local tip / e-bay / gumtree and use Go Outdoors to refill it.
We have just changed our first Calorlite bottle after 65 nights away including all year use of the oven, hob & Cadac on the external gas connection. We use mostly EHU.
HTH
Damian
Moderator
Propane is the better gas to use for removing the need to change pigtail or regulator and having the wrong gas at the wrong time.
Butane is only really usable in the warmer summer months.
Propane is good all year round.
Butane is only really usable in the warmer summer months.
Propane is good all year round.
KeefySher said:
TUT TUT TUT. :evil: :evil: :evil:
Calor bottles are only to be exchanged. No law abiding refiller will offer to refill a Calor bottle.
Anseo said:
This is not so. Butane burns hotter than propane, but propane regulators release more gas than Butane ones, giving the illusion of burning hotter.
Parksy
Moderator
I've used butane in the past but now only use propane. There's nothing worse on a cold and frosty morning off grid with no heating or boiling kettle for that early morning cuppa because the butane won't become gas from liquid.
As for gas bottles, it can be worthwhile looking at small local diy / hardware shops,they often supply lpg for less money than caravan accessory stores or campsites. Calor is available all over the UK, so if you use a different locally available brand you need to ensure that you have enough gas available for your holiday before you leave.
As for gas bottles, it can be worthwhile looking at small local diy / hardware shops,they often supply lpg for less money than caravan accessory stores or campsites. Calor is available all over the UK, so if you use a different locally available brand you need to ensure that you have enough gas available for your holiday before you leave.
Dustydog said:
According to this link, that includes the words 'propane and refill':
http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/calor-calor-lite-6kg-propane-refill-p119713
They provide a refill, that they carry to your car from the compound. So I guess that is the 'service' bit. It gives the price of £21.59 with the GO card, and I understand if you present a CC / camc / wotever or C&CC membership card you get a further 10% discount, that I missed when buying a refill the other week.
Seems a reasonable deal given the price of captive market gas!! :evil: :evil:
Parksy said:
Or just as importantly for you tea total (unless at a woosiefest) types, a late night cup of cocoa
chrisn7 said:
Thanks for that chrisn7, always happy to be corrected, and here I was carrying that misconception for many years now
Just found this old thread on the subject:
http://www.practicalcaravan.com/forum/technical/40506-propane-versus-butane-does-either-burn-hotter-than-the-other
chrisn7 said:
This may have been the case with bottle-mounted regulators but most new vans have a single bulkhead mounted regulator which can be used with either gas.
chrisn7 said:
Sorry but when you refer to "hotter" that implies the flame temperature is greater. The difference in flame temperatures is only about 0.5% or 10C. That is not "hotter" The difference is the amount of heat released per unit second. or how long will it take to boil a kettle.
On older caravans where we used to run Butane at 28mB and Propane at 37mb, the difference in the supply pressure and other physical factors related to each gas actually meant the heating effect of both Butane and Propane were in practice virtually the same. In other words heating the same kettle of water would take about the same time on either gas.
In modern caravans where there is a standardised gas pressure of 30mB, Butane will boil the same kettle quicker than Propane. Appliances that use a proportioning thermostatic valve, may take longer to heat up (or cool down in the case of fridges) on Propane but the thermostat will usually compensate for any differences in the performances of the gas.
If you are intending to use your caravan when the ambient temperature falls below about 5C then Propane is the gas to use.
For your information LPG stands for Liquefied Petroleum Gas. The key word is Liquefied. Both Butane and Propane are gasses at normal atmospheric temperature and pressure. But both gasses are sensitive to temperature and pressure, and if they are cooled or compressed enough, they will spontaneously condense in to their liquid state. This enables a practical amount of gas to be contained as a liquid in a practical small container at atmospheric temperature but under pressure. both gases do this at a different pressure.
When using the gas, you take some gas from the bottle, which reduces the pressure fractionally inside the bottle. - very much like opening a bottle of pop. just as tho pop bubbles to try and re-balance the internal pressure, the liquified gas actually boils to release more gas. The boiling needs some heat energy, and it gets it from the air surrounding the bottle. For gas bottles this actually cools the gas bottle!
If the air is too cold and cannot supply enough heat to the bottle the liquified gas inside will stop boiling and stop producing gas - this is miss known as "freezing" but in fact is actually not boiling. Even though liquified Butane should boil at 0C, becasue of the self cooling of the bottle by the process, in practice for reliable Butane usage the air temperature needs to be greater than about 5C.
By comparison Propane has a boiling point of about -40C, and that is why it will work in UK and most continental winters. Its also why when you see roofing companies boiling up vats of bitumen, the red bottles often have white ring of frost. This is the self cooling of the bottle.
Added as Edit:
Another common misconception is you need to wrap up the gas bottles to keep them warm - Wrong. becasue they need heat from the atmosphere you must actually keep them well ventilated.
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