Wind powered free energy this weekend

[Buckman]

If the national grid is so good at coping, why do we need to import electric? Why do we pay for the wind farms to shut down when there is too much power, why do we need to fire up moth balled power stations at great cost when we do not have any sun or wind for several days?

 

[RogerL]

If the national grid is so good at coping, why do we need to import electric? Why do we pay for the wind farms to shut down when there is too much power, why do we need to fire up moth balled power stations at great cost when we do not have any sun or wind for several days?

The answer to the first part is that the UK National Grid is part of a European-wide grid interchange system which balances demand when necessary. As well as importing energy, it also exports energy at other times - that's how grid systems work.

 

[otherclive]

If the national grid is so good at coping, why do we need to import electric? Why do we pay for the wind farms to shut down when there is too much power, why do we need to fire up moth balled power stations at great cost when we do not have any sun or wind for several days?

Could it be that at times the cost of importing surplus electricity from Europe via interconnectors is cheaper than running supplementary gas power stations?

 

[Buckman]

The answer to the first part is that the UK National Grid is part of a European-wide grid interchange system which balances demand when necessary. As well as importing energy, it also exports energy at other times - that's how grid systems work.

Thanks, but don't we import more than we export? Also if we do export, why is it that at times when wind farms are shut down at great expense, we don't export that excess?

 

[otherclive]

If the national grid is so good at coping, why do we need to import electric? Why do we pay for the wind farms to shut down when there is too much power, why do we need to fire up moth balled power stations at great cost when we do not have any sun or wind for several days?

If our domestic UK gas supplies are so great why do we import gas from Norway, the US or Middle East? One can get on a merry go round of endless questions. But the undisputed facts are that UK is now getting more than 50% of its electricity (2024 figures) from renewable sources, and +60% when nuclear is included in the carbon neutral figures. These figure will only get larger as new renewable and nuclear sources come on line. Hopefully by then a way will be found to divorce electric prices from gas prices. The alternative being to let market forces prevail such that gas stations wither on the vine, and only a few “ profitable” ones remain.

 

[otherclive]

Thanks, but don't we import more than we export? Also if we do export, why is it that at times when wind farms are shut down at great expense, we don't export that excess?

If you care to look at Gridwatch UK the figures for import and export via inter connectors are all available. Perhaps we don’t export our excess rather than shut down wind farms is because Europe has no demand for importing.

This link might explain the **** show that is Britains energy scene after years of underinvestment and lack of strategic planning.

Why Does the UK Import So Much Electricity? – NeuWave Technologies

Why does the UK import a high percentage of electricity. Domestic renewables production and infrastructure update requirements.

www.neuwave.co.uk

 

[Buckman]

If you care to look at Gridwatch UK the figures for import and export via inter connectors are all available. Perhaps we don’t export our excess rather than shut down wind farms is because Europe has no demand for importing.

but we shut down wind farms because we cannot export for the reason you mention. The national grid does not have the capability to store excess electric.

If our domestic UK gas supplies are so great why do we import gas from Norway, the US or Middle East? One can get on a merry go round of endless questions. But the undisputed facts are that UK is now getting more than 50% of its electricity (2024 figures) from renewable sources, and +60% when nuclear is included in the carbon neutral figures. These figure will only get larger as new renewable and nuclear sources come on line. Hopefully by then a way will be found to divorce electric prices from gas prices. The alternative being to let market forces prevail such that gas stations wither on the vine, and only a few “ profitable” ones remain.

I thought we imported gas from Norway because we shut down our gas fields and there is no further exploration at this time? You do not have to be a genius to figure out that if we have most of our electric from renewables and rely on wind and solar, if there is no wind or sun for several days, we will have blackouts. Earlier this year in January didn't it come very close to blackouts? Also I seem to recall that there were major blackouts in Portugal and Spain who relies on renewables?

 

[GUMPY]

The UK doesn't own any gas or oil fields in the north sea so it's meaningless refering to "our gas fields".
Unlike Norway the UK sold off all it's gas and oil fields years ago. One of the reasons gas is so expensive and we don't have a decent "sovereign wealth fund" like Norway has.

The power blackout in Spain and Portugal was caused by a gas or nuclear power station failing to provide enough power to synchronise the grid frequency so the grid went into auto shutdown.

 

[otherclive]

but we shut down wind farms because we cannot export for the reason you mention. The national grid does not have the capability to store excess electric.


I thought we imported gas from Norway because we shut down our gas fields and there is no further exploration at this time? You do not have to be a genius to figure out that if we have most of our electric from renewables and rely on wind and solar, if there is no wind or sun for several days, we will have blackouts. Earlier this year in January didn't it come very close to blackouts? Also I seem to recall that there were major blackouts in Portugal and Spain who relies on renewables?

I think the word most appropriate to our gas fields would be “depleted”. Opening up more if economic still wouldn’t change the price we pay for electric as gas is sold on the global market at global prices. Unlike Norway we squandered our North Sea bonanza and now pay the price. But the clean energy from renewables is surely a big plus, and the share will only increase as more come on line.
Here is the official report of the Spanish Portuguese grid failure. It wasn’t caused by renewables despite many wishing it were the case.

28 April 2025 Blackout

www.entsoe.eu

 

[Buckman]

I think the word most appropriate to our gas fields would be “depleted”. Opening up more if economic still wouldn’t change the price we pay for electric as gas is sold on the global market at global prices. Unlike Norway we squandered our North Sea bonanza and now pay the price. But the clean energy from renewables is surely a big plus, and the share will only increase as more come on line.
Here is the official report of the Spanish Portuguese grid failure. It wasn’t caused by renewables despite many wishing it were the case.

28 April 2025 Blackout

www.entsoe.eu

The report proves my point that no country can survive on renewables at 100% or even 80%! It is not possible! If nuclear is carbon free, why do we have wind and solar farms?

 

[Sam Vimes]

Wind farms and solar farms are quicker, cheaper and easier to build compared with Nuclear Reactors.

There is work going on into small Nuclear Reactors that could be installed in more local areas rather than large centralised ones.

 

[otherclive]

The report proves my point that no country can survive on renewables at 100% or even 80%! It is not possible! If nuclear is carbon free, why do we have wind and solar farms?

Because it may be apparent that we haven’t invested in new nuclear power stations, and the next new one at HPC is still some years away from commissioning. Don’t hold your breath on new SMRs coming anytime soon. Are you saying that having coal, gas , or nuclear would have prevented the blackout in Spain-Portugal. Not so, as it didn’t stop the blackouts.

 

[ProfJohnL]

If the national grid is so good at coping, why do we need to import electric? Why do we pay for the wind farms to shut down when there is too much power, why do we need to fire up moth balled power stations at great cost when we do not have any sun or wind for several days?

let me make it clear when I have referred to the "Grid" my comments have related to the wires that connect the generators to the consumers.

Using my definition, the grid has not failed in any significant manner simply due to the use of EV's or Heat Pumps which has been one of your principle arguments over many threads, But in fact there has not been any significant grid failure in relation to any form of new load. That is because the grid has and continues to use planned evolution to stay in step with projected demand.

There have been far bigger issues with the grid such as outages caused by extreme weather, which was also why some wind farms were turned off, because of the danger of the excessive winds damaging them.

Lack of generating plant, and the cost of electricity is the fault successive political parties inability to have a well planned energy policy, not the grids fault.
The fact is the contribution cost of construction and operating of wind and solar is so much lower than generation by burning fossil fuels or even nuclear, that has prevented your electricity bills being even bigger than they are.

By your own admission the electricity supply is complex business and one that you don't apparently understand, otherwise you would know about retaining diversity of supply, and keeping some generation facilities on hold (e.g. Moth Balled) in a state of readiness to bring on line over a period of few weeks, ready to cover for options that need maintenance or refurbishment. the cost of mothballing and reinstating is a small cost compared to having to plan, get approvals for building , spending years to construct having cost overruns and delays to create a new generating plant.

 

[GUMPY]

The report proves my point that no country can survive on renewables at 100% or even 80%! It is not possible! If nuclear is carbon free, why do we have wind and solar farms?

Have you seen an early copy of the report?
The final report is not released until Q1 2026.😉

 

[otherclive]

Have you seen an early copy of the report?
The final report is not released until Q1 2026.😉

The link to the investigation report at #134 relates to the factual report of the incident, a further report is as you say to be issued Q1 2026. This will look at root causes across Spain, Portugal and interfaces with the wider European grid. That report will make recommendations for changes to be incorporated to reduce the likelihood of such an outage occurring again. Hopefully other interconnected nations will assess to see if their own grids are resilient enough, as a similar incident occurred in Australia.

 

[ProfJohnL]

The report proves my point that no country can survive on renewables at 100% or even 80%! It is not possible! If nuclear is carbon free, why do we have wind and solar farms?

As far as I know no one has suggested we or any other nation (with perhaps the exception of Norway and its hydro power) could even consider only having renewables as their only generating supply becasue of the interrupted nature of solar and the uncertainty of available wind. However the situation could change as storage systems become grid scale. But I a touched on the subject in my last posting in this thread, knowing that solar and wind renewables will be interrupted at times makes it imperative to have some other generating capacity ready to carry base load for essentials. That base load may be nuclear, but it could also be fossil fueled. It's called diversity.

Nuclear may be considered carbon free, but carbon free is not the only factor, Nuclear fission carries a lot of other baggage with it, such as 100,000 years of radioactive waste to manage, and a super high cost for construction, and waste storage. If we can get Nuclear Fusion to work , that might be a game changer but as ever it seems to 20 years away.

Reverting to fossil fuels is not an easy, safe or even a sensible solution, as fossil fuel is definitely one of the reasons we have accelerated climate change, and we would be at the mercy of the oil/gas barrons who have always managed to swing higher prices on us.

 

[Oscarmax]

Over the last 11 months we have only drawn 288 kWh peak hour of the grid, as previously stated we have solar panels, battery and a PHEV vehicle , its not all doom and gloom.

 

[Dustydog]

After #142 posts it remains a fact the U.K. electricity pricing is one of the most expensive in the civilised world.
Why?
Some will say our dependence on world gas prices. So we import .

If we had protected our own supply and storage things may have been different.
Compared to the rest our “ Green Levy “ is totally disproportionate.
If I could solve this imbalance I’d be a billionaire overnight.
The fact is the U.K. got it all wrong over the last two decades. Maybe trying to be too green or just a total lack of afore thought.

And sadly like 99% of the population I do not have the domestic infrastructure to enjoy free electricity as described by the OP😢

 

[GUMPY]

Over the last 11 months we have only drawn 288 kWh peak hour of the grid, as previously stated we have solar panels, battery and a PHEV vehicle , its not all doom and gloom.

12 months and 99.4% of my electric use is outside of the peak hours. That's 0.6% peak time use or 6.5kWh it hurts me paying high prices so I try to avoid it.