Breaking the law is one thing thing Keith and I admit 20 mph over the limit is pushing the realms re memory lapse in the UK's road conditions.
We're travelling with Bessacarr at present but also have a Senator that I've towed at 80mph. We stored it in France a while back and had to followed storage guy from camp site towing another van. On the autoroute I never realised how fast we were going as I followed him.
It was my first X5 4.8s and I thought the guy was trying to prove something and I was a litttle stuck as I had no idea where we were going.
I have to say that the van felt as stable and safe as it does at 60 though I appreciate the higher risks and it was avery fine low wind day.
I believe the Bailey manual even says something about speed upto 83mph. My present 4.8s would I'm sure exceed 100 mph with van in tow if I was so inclined to risk mine and others lives.
We have a family friend who has admitted to topping 80 mph towing with a new 3.2 Diesel Shogun on the way to Dover. The car was brand new and he was held up on route, used to an older car talking to his wife and kids with the open M20 as he concentrated on road and time and distance away from Dover. As they talked he then realised that tha car that was making similar noises and vibes to his previous older Disco was actually 20 or so mph over the limit and he's a serving police officer.
As far as I know he's not mad or mental and loves his wife and kids. But it easier to do than one might think in the right conditions, car and when cncentrating on what is going on rather than speed.
Caravans batting along at 60 swaying about are a big concern to me as those who may have have had a lapse of what ever, and be over the limit.
We're travelling with Bessacarr at present but also have a Senator that I've towed at 80mph. We stored it in France a while back and had to followed storage guy from camp site towing another van. On the autoroute I never realised how fast we were going as I followed him.
It was my first X5 4.8s and I thought the guy was trying to prove something and I was a litttle stuck as I had no idea where we were going.
I have to say that the van felt as stable and safe as it does at 60 though I appreciate the higher risks and it was avery fine low wind day.
I believe the Bailey manual even says something about speed upto 83mph. My present 4.8s would I'm sure exceed 100 mph with van in tow if I was so inclined to risk mine and others lives.
We have a family friend who has admitted to topping 80 mph towing with a new 3.2 Diesel Shogun on the way to Dover. The car was brand new and he was held up on route, used to an older car talking to his wife and kids with the open M20 as he concentrated on road and time and distance away from Dover. As they talked he then realised that tha car that was making similar noises and vibes to his previous older Disco was actually 20 or so mph over the limit and he's a serving police officer.
As far as I know he's not mad or mental and loves his wife and kids. But it easier to do than one might think in the right conditions, car and when cncentrating on what is going on rather than speed.
Caravans batting along at 60 swaying about are a big concern to me as those who may have have had a lapse of what ever, and be over the limit.
No offence meant or intended Euro.
I still maintain that anyone travelling at 80 mph with a caravan in tow has absolutely NIL chance of survival in the event of a crash at that speed.
If those who do it want to be critically injured or die, then fine.....get on with it.
What concerns me considerably more is that they may well also take somebody else's family out with them.
A family that doesn't want to be caught up in somebody else's accident.
My wife and I are qualified paramedics,and regularly go out to horrific scenes of caravan turnovers, and other road accidents, so we DO know exactly what we are talking about.
Believe us when we tell you that some of them are VERY harrowing indeed.
But then, people who speed always have an excuse..............!!
I still maintain that anyone travelling at 80 mph with a caravan in tow has absolutely NIL chance of survival in the event of a crash at that speed.
If those who do it want to be critically injured or die, then fine.....get on with it.
What concerns me considerably more is that they may well also take somebody else's family out with them.
A family that doesn't want to be caught up in somebody else's accident.
My wife and I are qualified paramedics,and regularly go out to horrific scenes of caravan turnovers, and other road accidents, so we DO know exactly what we are talking about.
Believe us when we tell you that some of them are VERY harrowing indeed.
But then, people who speed always have an excuse..............!!
Come on guys! - It is not the outfit that is at fault, nor is it speed itself.
Problems only arrise when either one or all factors are "innapropriate".
The vehicle - like most modern and very capable Tow Trucks could tow at that speed all day probably. And on French motorways/roads with their lower volume of traffic - all is probably OK.
But on our congested roads - i would say that 60mph is both sensible and appropriate.
As for it being against the law in the UK? - Well they say the law is an ass and it certainly is when it comes to motorists and "innapropriate" speed.
I feel it is innapropriate to have the normal 70mph limit reduced to 50mph miles before the Severn Bridge on the M4, then set up speed cammeras on gantries to catch all those caught out.
When you get the Police setting up "Piggy banks" in innapropriate places so that rather than safety the camera is used as a cash generating machine - people loose faith and respect for the law.
Speed itself is not the problem - most caravan accidents are caused by poorly maintained cars and or caravans - I am far more concerned about the overloaded tail swinging outfits doing 50 mph that I regularly see in the South West.
Problems only arrise when either one or all factors are "innapropriate".
The vehicle - like most modern and very capable Tow Trucks could tow at that speed all day probably. And on French motorways/roads with their lower volume of traffic - all is probably OK.
But on our congested roads - i would say that 60mph is both sensible and appropriate.
As for it being against the law in the UK? - Well they say the law is an ass and it certainly is when it comes to motorists and "innapropriate" speed.
I feel it is innapropriate to have the normal 70mph limit reduced to 50mph miles before the Severn Bridge on the M4, then set up speed cammeras on gantries to catch all those caught out.
When you get the Police setting up "Piggy banks" in innapropriate places so that rather than safety the camera is used as a cash generating machine - people loose faith and respect for the law.
Speed itself is not the problem - most caravan accidents are caused by poorly maintained cars and or caravans - I am far more concerned about the overloaded tail swinging outfits doing 50 mph that I regularly see in the South West.
But there is also another factor, critical speed. That is the speed at which an otherwise completely docile unit will suddenly become unmanageable in the event of a change of conditions, whether brought about actively on the part of the driver, such as to avoid a sudden unforeseen hazard ahead or passively due to, say, a gust of wind. Below that critical speed, the chances of restoring stability are dependent on the experience of the driver but above that, even an experienced driver will stand no chance. The trouble is that the driver is also given no warning when the critical speed is reached and it is only in the event of an emergency situation that it becomes apparent. The critical speed varies form outfit to outfit and is dependent on a multitude of factors, too many to list here, but generally it is between 60 and 70mph. Over that speed, the outfit will appear to be quite stable until a hazard is encountered.
The problem is that with the government preaching speed kills and having a fanatical desire to prosecute motorists for speed above anything, else a culture has grown up where the speed limit has become the measure of safety.
There are plenty of caravan combinations that are dodgy at 50 on the motorway and many that are safe at 70. There are sections of the motorways where 60 would be foolish but in the UK we are very poor compared with the French in indicating this. They have specific speed limits imposed on towing vehicles on many down hill sections and wind socks on exposed sections. When did you last see anything proactive in the UK?
There are plenty of caravan combinations that are dodgy at 50 on the motorway and many that are safe at 70. There are sections of the motorways where 60 would be foolish but in the UK we are very poor compared with the French in indicating this. They have specific speed limits imposed on towing vehicles on many down hill sections and wind socks on exposed sections. When did you last see anything proactive in the UK?
Lutz has summed it up very well.
Basically, the faster you go (whatever you drive), the more at risk you become, and when a SUDDEN AND UNEXPECTED event occurs, THAT is when accidents occur.
Most people CAN NOT cope with an emergency on the roads, and that is a fact. They PANIC, skid, lose control and CRASH!
Calm orderly and restrained driving is the key. Always keeping your eyes on the road, and always being in a position on the road to react immediately and CALMLY to unforeseen circumstances.
We all like to think that we are perfectly wonderful behind the wheel. Cool, calm and impervious to hassle.
Reality, and daily accidents should make us all wiser!
Basically, the faster you go (whatever you drive), the more at risk you become, and when a SUDDEN AND UNEXPECTED event occurs, THAT is when accidents occur.
Most people CAN NOT cope with an emergency on the roads, and that is a fact. They PANIC, skid, lose control and CRASH!
Calm orderly and restrained driving is the key. Always keeping your eyes on the road, and always being in a position on the road to react immediately and CALMLY to unforeseen circumstances.
We all like to think that we are perfectly wonderful behind the wheel. Cool, calm and impervious to hassle.
Reality, and daily accidents should make us all wiser!
Keith, in a perfect world your words of wisdom would no doubt be common place, but in reality on our roads today thats not going to happen. Im not knocking what you say, not in the slightest,but its not vanners on the whole that need educated,its the death-wish loonies of all ages that have no connection between brain and right foot. Most vanners on here apart from maybe the newest to vanning are well aware of whats at stake once out on the open road, but if we are to be more cautious than we already are, we will end up going backwards on our journey. Me ,Im a selfish B'tard when out amongst the loonies because car and van are one when Im towing and if they dont like it, tuff Ill take finger salute all day long. Also have you ever noticed when you leave a safe distance from the vehicle in front it never stays safe very long because some brain-dead moron thinks it their space and then you leave a safe distance again and hey-presto your going backwards again. I am not a dodgem driver but I stick my ground.
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