write-off. ripped-off ?

[nobooks]

I recently bought a used caravan from a dealer. When trying to cris register it i found out that it is a cat c write-off. Have I been ripped-off ?

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

The AIB defines Category C write off as: "Repairable total-loss vehicles where repair costs including VAT exceed the vehicle's pre-accident value."

If you paid a cheap price ie lower than the current market value and are prepared to repair it - then no. Were you told it was a write-off?

The moral, unfortunately, is buyer beware (caveat emptor). It is best to check cris and HPI before handing over any money. And check for the dreaded damp. :evil:

 

[nobooks]

I paid market price (or thereabouts), having done a p.ex. I was not informed of the cat c, only found out about when I went to get is CRIS registered

 

[Dustydog]

When did you buy this caravan?
Do you still have any of the adverts?
How did you pay for it?
What age make and model?
Did the Dealer give any warranty?

Sorry to ask these questions but the more information you give the better the forumites can offer help.

 

[Raywood]

If it has been repaired correctly then it should not be a problem, but problems can arise if the repair was not done well. I would look at what you have in the way of adverts or whatever to see if you have been misled, but if not you would have to show the caravan was faulty in some way.
For my own piece of mind I would have it examined by a competent engineer and see what he says. If he finds problems get them in writing and then you might have a comeback against the seller assuming it was a dealer. If buying privately things are far more difficult but at least you will know the score.
If you have it examined let us know the results and it will be easier to advise then.

 

[MichaelE]

If its from a dealer he should have informed you.
With a car you have to be inform and you would expect to pay below market value.
A private sale is different you take your chance.
The dealer would have run his checks so would have known and if he hadn't passed this info on then I'm guessing you can take it back?

 

[Raywood]

I do not believe a dealer has to inform you if it has been written off previously but cannot mislead you if you ask about its history. If it was a dealer it may have been a borderline case which they bought and repaired during a quiet time.
I would not be happy to find this out but unless I was mislead I think you have to show it was faulty begore you can do anything. If you are a member of either of the clubs you could try their legal helpline or if not Citizens Advice.

 

[Parksy]

A friend of mine bought a lovely well looked after used Bailey Senator which over time developed a leak due to a cracked front panel. The cracks were tiny, and could be difficult to spot if one wasn't aware of them.
He initially considered selling the caravan via a private sale, but thankfully he did the decent thing and part exchanged it for his brand new caravan with Chichester Caravans, who paid a fair price.
They repaired the part ex caravan with a new front panel and subsequently sold it, although I doubt if they informed the new buyer judging by the screen asking price.
To be fair, the new buyer was getting a caravan which had been hand built where it had problems, with a brand new front panel and presumably extra care taken by the fitters to ensure that the leak was fixed, so I doubt if the buyer could really consider themselves to have been cheated.
If you have any form of guarantee with the caravan and it has no issues it might be wise to find out what work was done, but if it was done properly don't let the repair put you off.

 

[Gagakev]

Was dreaming a few weeks back and visited local dealer, was looking at Bailey Cartengena, thought it was brand new, salesman popped his head in and said it was a Cat c write off only used one night, the day the guy bought it he ripped a hole in the top nearside right hand corner, the dealer repaired it and it was inspected by Baileys them selves before it was put back on the market and the repair was that good they had agreed to honour the rest of the warranty. I tried to find the damaged area but it really was that good, I asked the rep why he told me, he said that they wanted to be honest up front, as it would eventually come to light anyway.

Didnt buy it as I did not want to sleep with the battery under my bed!!
Oh and I couldnt afford it anyway.

 

[chrisn7]

The OP didn't say how old the van is. If it is a little older, it can, like a car, become uneconomical for an insurance company to pay for professional repairs, resulting in the write-off. A cat C might be due to flood, rather than impact damage

However, a dealer or an individual might have access to second hand parts for example, that allow a satisfactory repair to be made more cheaply.
With cars a dealer is obliged to state if CatC/D - don't know about caravans, but it would seem likely the same would apply

 

[colin-yorkshire]

The OP didn't say how old the van is. If it is a little older, it can, like a car, become uneconomical for an insurance company to pay for professional repairs, resulting in the write-off. A cat C might be due to flood, rather than impact damage

However, a dealer or an individual might have access to second hand parts for example, that allow a satisfactory repair to be made more cheaply.
With cars a dealer is obliged to state if CatC/D - don't know about caravans, but it would seem likely the same would apply

not quite right, nearly, but one has to be able to understand how something gets written off,
cat,D, is not a write off, it is where there is cosmetic damage, but the item it's self is not damaged but may require some repairs that are deemed to be uneconomic to replace, on a item due to it's value, so this could be broken windows, pet damage to the interior, or say on a motorbike where the fairings need replacing, a cat D is not registered on any data base as a total, but is expected to be worth a much lower price, until satisfactory repairs are made.
cat, C is where the item IS damaged but the cost of repair is more than the value of the item is when original parts and vat plus dealer labour charges are included in the cost of repair, a cat, C is registered on data bases, and must be inspected and certified, after the repairs are completed, before the item can be used, a cat, C will never be worth the value of a undamaged item, and due to this any insurance company will have to know that the item has been damaged, in order to asses the true value,
cat,B, is where there is substantial damage to an Item, that deems it unrepairable, it cannot be repaired or used again, however it can be stripped for parts and these salvaged parts used to repair other items.
cat, A is a item where it is damaged beyond repair, and no parts are salvageable all of it must be scrapped and never used again.

answer to the OP, if the dealer sold you a cat,C item at full price without telling you it had been repaired, not only did you get ripped off, he was committing an offence in doing so.

 

[MichaelE]

I know on auto trader they have to disclose that it's a cat c or d
I don't think there is a law though and they only have to disclose if asked
They all say a cat c is priced a lot lower than market value
Interesting reading
If a trader sells a vehicle that has been classified as a category C or D write off without making this clear to you before you agree to buy, or if they mislead you about any accident damage, they may be in breach of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.
Best thing is to speak to the dealer and go from there?

 

[Raywood]

I am not aware of anything in the regulations that say the dealer must tell you anything about the history unless you ask. If you want to be sure I would try Citizens Advice who should have more information on this than us. If you want to take on the dealer you need to know what that the regulations say and which ones apply.
I did look at the Citizens Advice web site and cannot see anything that would suggest you can get anything back unless you can show it is faulty but a phone call to one of their advisers might clear this up.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

a cat,C write off is just that a vehicle or item that has been damaged and repaired, it has a lower value, and will have been added to the data base of damaged goods that the insurance companies have, it is one of the reasons any vehicle one wishes to buy should be HPI checked first, not disclosing a vehicle has been a cat,C write off and selling it at full undamaged price, is I believe an offence under the consumer rights act, because, the new owner would not know the item was repaired and therefore at risk of having any future insurance either denied, or loaded.on the premium plus not disclosing that there has been an issue could lead to any future claim being denied.
if the Cris registration scheme knows it has been written off so does the insurance companies, an also the dealers, when they check if a van has been stolen, when they bought it,
if it were me I would go down to the dealers, challenge them to explain, demand a refund, or lower price, and if no response, report them to the trading standards, if that does not work for £75 one can make a claim in the small claims court, then for a further £50 to appoint the sheriffs to collect the award, there are too many rouge traders out there.

 

[Raywood]

a cat,C write off is just that a vehicle or item that has been damaged and repaired, it has a lower value, and will have been added to the data base of damaged goods that the insurance companies have, it is one of the reasons any vehicle one wishes to buy should be HPI checked first, not disclosing a vehicle has been a cat,C write off and selling it at full undamaged price, is I believe an offence under the consumer rights act, because, the new owner would not know the item was repaired and therefore at risk of having any future insurance either denied, or loaded.on the premium plus not disclosing that there has been an issue could lead to any future claim being denied.
if the Cris registration scheme knows it has been written off so does the insurance companies, an also the dealers, when they check if a van has been stolen, when they bought it,
if it were me I would go down to the dealers, challenge them to explain, demand a refund, or lower price, and if no response, report them to the trading standards, if that does not work for £75 one can make a claim in the small claims court, then for a further £50 to appoint the sheriffs to collect the award, there are too many rouge traders out there.

The problem is that I cannot see the dealer has a duty to tell you unless you ask. On that basis if he says no refund then a court action is a waste of money as you will lose. Your only hope then is that he might make an offer to save on costs or avoid bad publicity..

 

[colin-yorkshire]

of course he has a duty to tell you, it's been written off, and therefore damaged goods, at the point of being written off it is only salvage and worth scrap value, that is why there is a register of such items, to stop the death traps of salvaged vehicles being welded together, or bodged up and sold as good.
it is an offence to sell a write off as undamaged. of that I am sure.
I found this on the law society web site, just about sums it up.

""So what does a seller have to reveal about the cars history. Generally the seller has to declare anything they know about a car. They have to tell a customer if a car has been a write off. They can no longer turn a blind eye to it and pretend they did not know.

They have to carry out checks on the vehicle and tell prospective customers of those checks and their results.

Also if the customer asks a question and the seller replies then if the reply is false then there is a misrepresentation (as well as a Trading Standards offence!).

It doesn't ever need to be a direct question about whether or not the vehicle is recorded on any of the registers.
If for instance the customer asked:

�Is the vehicle in good condition?� and the seller replied: �Yes.�

Then that could be misrepresentation particularly if the seller knew it was a write off.""

 

[ProfJohnL]

As with any purchase, CAVEAT EMPTOR. the UK consumer regulations only suggest the purchaser is responsible for ensuring the goods are suitable for the intended purpose. That means ask before you buy. However if you ask a question of a retail trader or dealer they are required to answer as honestly as they can as goods must be "as described" but if you don't ask the dealer is not in breach if they don't tell you.

This applies as much to new product as it does second hand, except that with new product it is expected to be fault free in all respects.

With second hand product if a dealer discloses any known faults the customer is then in a position to make their own mind up whether to buy the products as described or not.