2023 Bailey damp already !

[MrBoggybailey]

Hi All ...my first post here.
We had a Lunar Delta ( our 4th van ) that leaked like bucket with no bottom so we decided to upgrade...went to the 'show' and ordered a Bailey Evora.
One year on and at first service it has damp and spongy floor on both rear corners, bubbles in the internal roof skin, locker doors that dont stay up , centre top blind broken...the list goes on.
The guys who serviced it couldnt belive it was only 12 months old.
When they looked at rear floor there are screws sticking through the floor !
It would appear the Baileys vans are not built but thrown together and hope they are ok ?
Am I within my rights to ask for a refund or a new van , current one has finance on it and Im concerned it wont last until the end of the agreement 😬

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello MrBoggyBailey

I'm sorry to read of your problem.

Just to be clear When you say you ordered an Evora, do you mean it was a brand new caravan?

If it was brand new, then the caravan should be covered by a manufacturers guarantee. but you will need to have had all services and inspections carried out according to the manufacturer's schedule.
Have you explored this?

Entirely separate to the manufacturers Guarantee, you also have statutory rights against the seller (not the manufacturer) as described in the Consumer Rights Act. and I suggest you read up about them and how to use them Click Here to go to Which?

However you have also told us you have used finance and some of that is still outstanding. Under the Consumer Credit Act , the finance house has a joint responsibility for the quality of the goods their finance is used to purchase. This is important to them as the goods represent their collateral if you default on payments, so anything that devalues the goods caused by a defect affects their investment.

As such the finance house can be a very useful lever to get repairs or refunds .

BUT I think you might have some trouble is showing that a refund is the the correct and fair solution. The caravan is now at least 12 months old, and despite the problem that has come to light, it hasn't entirely disabled the caravan, and it is possible to be repaired. If you have to go down the CRA route, and you win you might only be awarded the repair or a partial refund for loss of value, but I suspect a full refund may not be an option. I stress this is only my opinion, You should read up on the CRA first and if necessary take proper legal advice.

 

[MrBoggybailey]

Hi ProfJohnL
Thanks for your reply. Yes the caravan was brand new in March 2023. We bought it from Robinson Caravans in Chesterfield who have just gone into administration so I have had to take it to a approved Bailey repairer. They were shocked at the state of the van! ...we look after it and it has only had one tow out, the rest of the time it is on a site with storage.
The repairers seem to think it needs a new roof plus the floor repair and other bits to be done. He said it will probably have to go back to Bailey to be sorted .
There is a lot of finance on the van so as you said they have an intrest in it ...I will get in touch with them when the repairer has heard back on Baileys plans to sort it .
Thank you from a very hacked off Bailey customer ! 🤨

 

[otherclive]

Hello MrBoggyBailey

I'm sorry to read of your problem.

Just to be clear When you say you ordered an Evora, do you mean it was a brand new caravan?

If it was brand new, then the caravan should be covered by a manufacturers guarantee. but you will need to have had all services and inspections carried out according to the manufacturer's schedule.
Have you explored this?

Entirely separate to the manufacturers Guarantee, you also have statutory rights against the seller (not the manufacturer) as described in the Consumer Rights Act. and I suggest you read up about them and how to use them Click Here to go to Which?

However you have also told us you have used finance and some of that is still outstanding. Under the Consumer Credit Act , the finance house has a joint responsibility for the quality of the goods their finance is used to purchase. This is important to them as the goods represent their collateral if you default on payments, so anything that devalues the goods caused by a defect affects their investment.

As such the finance house can be a very useful lever to get repairs or refunds .

BUT I think you might have some trouble is showing that a refund is the the correct and fair solution. The caravan is now at least 12 months old, and despite the problem that has come to light, it hasn't entirely disabled the caravan, and it is possible to be repaired. If you have to go down the CRA route, and you win you might only be awarded the repair or a partial refund for loss of value, but I suspect a full refund may not be an option. I stress this is only my opinion, You should read up on the CRA first and if necessary take proper legal advice.

The post reads as if the “ CRA route” is a legal process, it’s not. It’s the customer using their rights under consumer legislation to seek redress. It’s not a case of winning. If the customers case agsinst the seller is a valid one then the seller has obligations under legislation.

It may benefit the OP to talk to Which legal services and it could be beneficial to pay for their legal support in making the case against the seller. The OP should be careful to record all discussions with the seller and use Email again as a record of their complaint, and decisions etc.

One aspect once the CRA 2015 is understood by the OP is to decide what redress is required from the Seller.

 

[otherclive]

Having the selling company now no longer in business brings a different light to the OP’s problem. Given the significant amount of potential repairs I think I would be contacting the finance house for redress. You can’t let heart rule the head in cases like this.

 

[MrBoggybailey]

Thanks All ...seller has closed so will contact the finance company and go from there. I did hear of a case where someone got a full refund after 7-8 months of ownership with the help of Citizens Advice but I think the refund came from the dealer .

 

[otherclive]

Thanks All ...seller has closed so will contact the finance company and go from there. I did hear of a case where someone got a full refund after 7-8 months of ownership with the help of Citizens Advice but I think the refund came from the dealer .

Yes refunds will come from dealers if the dealer accepts their obligations under CRA 2015. Possibly the new owner raised their rejection of the caravan within the 30 day period. That effectively stops the clock pending agreement on what is to be done with the caravan.

 

[MrBoggybailey]

Ah ok thanks ...I have emailed the finance company to see what they say .
Tbh I have lost faith in uk built vans now and wish I had gone for an Adria or the like as according to the engineer that looked at our van , they hardly see them for damp issues .

 

[ProfJohnL]

As I said the FInance house has a joint liability with the seller, Technically when you use finance, the finance house becomes the seller, as that's where you pay your money, and in this case that's great news becasue the same criteria that would fall on the dealer( seller) now falls on the Finance house. The goods must be free from defects , and of merchantable quality and have a reasonable life expectancy.

It would seem your caravan is not of durable and has not lasted a reasonable length of time.

As Otherclive has pointed out above, you don't have to use lawyers to access the benefits of the CRA, but sometimes its a good idea to use them if your not sure of what to do or where where they may complex issues in hand.

In your case if the dealership has gone and there is no legal trading entity that has taken on their liabilities, so the finance house in your case has to accept those responsibilities. - that is one of the risks of financing.

 

[Dustydog]

Another sad state of affairs made worse by the dealer going into administration.

In addition to everything else said above and apologies now if I am repeating something you know, it is imperative you put in writing full details of your complaint to the Administrators. I’d make it clear at this stage you are seeking a full refund or brand new replacement as far as the Law allows.

It is good advice you also seek full redress from the Finance company under Sect 75 of the Consumer Credit Act. Write to them.

CRA 2015 is very clear on timings. The first 30 days have expired as has the first six months
If a fault is discovered within the first six months the Act assumes the the fault was present at the time of purchase.

After six months the onus is upon you to prove the fault was there at point of sale.

I assume you have written to Bailey and put them on notice of a claim under the six year Bailey Bodyshell Integrity Warranty?

From your description if the floors are as soggy as you describe water must have been leaking in from date of delivery rather than during the last six months.

One our regulars on here is the Past Master at getting full refunds even in adverse conditions . I am sure he will post soon .Good luck and please keep us posted and ask if there anything you are unsure of.

Finally check your caravan. And house hold insurances. You may have a Legal Expenses Extension that can help you here.

 

[MrBoggybailey]

Thanks for all that useful info...the engineers are contacting Bailey directly , will check caravan insurance ....thanks 👍
Will update when new info arrives

 

[Dustydog]

Thanks for all that useful info...the engineers are contacting Bailey directly , will check caravan insurance ....thanks 👍
Will update when new info arrives

The posts on this are well worth reading particularly Bailey’s view on wet floors🤬

Wet floor corners

Hi Looking for some help we have Phoenix Vogue 2019 purchased June 2020. On its last service it was picked up that apparently the floor underneath the caravan in four corners has gone rotten dealers advised it would be repaired under warranty as under 3 years old. Baileys rejected this as no wate...

www.caravantalk.co.uk

 

[otherclive]

The posts on this are well worth reading particularly Bailey’s view on wet floors🤬

Wet floor corners

Hi Looking for some help we have Phoenix Vogue 2019 purchased June 2020. On its last service it was picked up that apparently the floor underneath the caravan in four corners has gone rotten dealers advised it would be repaired under warranty as under 3 years old. Baileys rejected this as no wate...

www.caravantalk.co.uk

What a cop out……….caused by taking it out in wet weather.

 

[Dustydog]

What a cop out……….caused by taking it out in wet weather.

It’s enough to put you off caravanning ! So much for Alu-tech

 

[Buckman]

Having the selling company now no longer in business brings a different light to the OP’s problem. Given the significant amount of potential repairs I think I would be contacting the finance house for redress. You can’t let heart rule the head in cases like this.

Technically they bought from the finance house and not the dealer so definitely for the finance house to resolve. Been down that route twice and the biggest issue is that you have to be persistent and keep banging the drum.

Just to add that if the OP used a credit card to pay a deposit then the CC company is also liable, however the finance house is the easiest option using CRA 2015 like I did very recently saving myself £3500!

 

[shouldknowbettor]

One year on and at first service it has damp and spongy floor on both rear corners, bubbles in the internal roof skin, locker doors that dont stay up , centre top blind broken...the list goes on.

Sorry to hear of your issues, and made only worse by having to rely solely on the extended warranty

To be honest though, soggy corners on a Bailey? Yeah they do that. Improper bonding on the internal walls? Also not new. Locker doors not fitted right? Well you did buy a Bailey...

Sounds like you're unlucky with so many issues, and many will come and (truthfully) tell you they've had n caravans and they've all been fine, but... The number of 'vans these places turn out isn't massive. 6000 units total a year for Bailey. Say 50/50 caravans to motorhomes we're talking 3000 a year. For that volume of sales the number of faults reported just on forums like this is astonishing. In my business if we had a failure rate of even 100 per year on the bits we manufactured / controlled directly per 3000 units (and by failure I mean any kind of significant fault occurring within the first year) we'd consider that a disaster.

 

[Raywood]

Looks appalling and the loss oof the dealer shows a very real weakness in the CRA. We can only wait and see now what Bailey and the finance company say but I would be looking at the finance company refunding you the cost although they may ask for a sum to cover last years use. We lost interest in one caravan with a lot less problems and given the problems here I would not want it back.
Being realistic I would simply want to get out on the best terms II could manage but do not be fobbed off at the same time.
If you you a national newspaper with a customer complaints forum try that if you get the run around as if they take up the case they can achieve wonders.

 

[Buckman]

Looks appalling and the loss oof the dealer shows a very real weakness in the CRA. We can only wait and see now what Bailey and the finance company say but I would be looking at the finance company refunding you the cost although they may ask for a sum to cover last years use. We lost interest in one caravan with a lot less problems and given the problems here I would not want it back.
Being realistic I would simply want to get out on the best terms II could manage but do not be fobbed off at the same time.
If you you a national newspaper with a customer complaints forum try that if you get the run around as if they take up the case they can achieve wonders.

With the caravan the finance house did try the less refund because you used it so we claimed compensation for all the trips done to the dealer and back, loss of enjoyment and loss of bookings plus a number of other things.

Together with the refund plus the compensation we broke even as over the previous 11 months if we had 2 months use out of the caravan we were lucky.

Happy with our current caravan although it came from the same brand that we had previously rejected.

 

[Dustydog]

Following up on Ray’s point this Lady is brilliant https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/katie-investigates/katie-morley-investigates-contact-form/

 

[MrBoggybailey]

I have lost faith in the van already to be honest. The finance company are saying that we/engineers would have to prove that the faults where there from new etc! We did point out the bubbles on the ceiling ( they were faint on collection) ....apparently they dealer made a note of it but now they have gone I assume that record has been lost ( if they even did it ! ) .
I would be happy to loose the payments I have made if I got my deposit back just to get away from it and they can have the van back .

 

[shouldknowbettor]

The finance company are saying that we/engineers would have to prove that the faults where there from new etc! We did point out the bubbles on the ceiling ( they were faint on collection) ....apparently they dealer made a note of it but now they have gone I assume that record has been lost ( if they even did it ! ) .

Just be aware of weasel wording on things like this. For example saying that because the bubbles were not apparent (ignoring you noticing them) from new is NOT the same as saying the fault was not there. The bubbles are a symptom not the fault. The fault is a failure to properly bond the materials together, the bubbles are a symptom of that failure. What you need is a decent report that not only highlights the symptom, but the root cause, and whether the root cause is something that you yourself could have caused, or in this case must have come like that from the factory in order for the symptom to already have been displaying.

 

[Buckman]

As mentioned in an earlier post contact Which Legal Services for advice. At the time, did you verbally mention the bubble sin the ceiling or was it in writing.

Either way the finance house is still obligated to resolve the issue as the caravan came with a 6 year damp ingress warranty and the finance house own the caravan. Don't let them FOB you off as they will try it hoping you will go away.

Just to add that the fault would have been there from day one either due to design or manufacture. I would suggest getting an independent report in addition to the report from the current dealer who is doing the check. You need to ask why is it leaking on such a new caravan.

 

[MrBoggybailey]

Yes total agree with that ...just found out that it's going back to the factory...but not until the end of August!! Thoughts whether we should just park it up or continue to use it ??

 

[Buckman]

Yes total agree with that ...just found out that it's going back to the factory...but not until the end of August!! Thoughts whether we should just park it up or continue to use it ??

If you use it, that may lessen the chance of getting a refund? Get something in writing from dealer or Bailey if you want to use it. You may be able to also claim compensation from the finance house for loss of enjoyment etc, but Which Legal Services can advise you best. Cost is about £95 annually for as much legal advice as required and they are experts are consumer issues.

 

[RogerL]

Looks appalling and the loss oof the dealer shows a very real weakness in the CRA. We can only wait and see now what Bailey and the finance company say but I would be looking at the finance company refunding you the cost although they may ask for a sum to cover last years use. We lost interest in one caravan with a lot less problems and given the problems here I would not want it back.
Being realistic I would simply want to get out on the best terms II could manage but do not be fobbed off at the same time.
If you you a national newspaper with a customer complaints forum try that if you get the run around as if they take up the case they can achieve wonders.

I'm not sure what CRA could have done differently to account for sellers closing their business - even transferring the liability back to the manufacturer wouldn't work in the case of a Lunar bought from Robinsons!