I tow a 750kg van with a P rover 400 2l diesel & a H discovery 2.5l diesel.After several outings along the M6,M5 I can say that the car is battered by the wind & is jostled when overtaken quite alarmingly.The discovery is much steadier in the same conditions.My van is used all year for work so is on the road during the nasty weather(with a bit of sense of timing for very nasty stuff!)Having a shower means we can use very cheap sites which can mean difficult uphill/non track pitching.The disco returns 30-35 mpg...my previous petrol 2l returned 20-25 mpg....
I'm also on the fence regarding this 4x4 debate but have to admit that my next tow vehicle will be a Toyota Landcruiser! Why? Because I like the thought of the vehicle I'm towing with is well (very well) over the 85% recommended towing weight. I also like the thought of never being stuck in a CL site in mid January.
We currently tow with a big BMW 735i, which has the weight (1650kg) but doesn't have the traction in muddy fields to tow out our Swift Conqueror.
We currently tow with a big BMW 735i, which has the weight (1650kg) but doesn't have the traction in muddy fields to tow out our Swift Conqueror.
I (yes I a mere woman) tow with my 4x4. I use it to tow our caravan which is big and would possibly not be safe with a smaller car and I will not put my family in any danger to please the environmental armies out there. I also tow my horse's trailer to different shows around the country, I do ALL my shopping in my 4x4 as well as help other people by collecting bulky items and so saving them the delivery charge, and guess what else I do in it (No I dont mean that right now, but guess what it is possible) I take my kids to school in it. Shock horror! I love my 4x4 and I can park it anywhere i damn well please. (Only joking)
Quote from someone.
" I haven't seen a fast 4x4. They are just Chelsea tractors!!"
Have a go in in my Cayenne Turbo and see the difference. Its a great comfortable tow car as well.
Harry
" I haven't seen a fast 4x4. They are just Chelsea tractors!!"
Have a go in in my Cayenne Turbo and see the difference. Its a great comfortable tow car as well.
Harry
We have four 4x4's in our family, all toyota's. One of them is kitted out properly, mine, and it has taken me to Russia (forests in Karelia) and Estonia in Feb. this year. Do that in an Escort. Next year will be the middle of Iceland. Who, writing in this forum, wants to see a 'fast 4x4', fast cars are the accident creators.
Harry, now your talking!! I was thinking when I wrote the thread that the Cayenne was the only one that is truly FAST! But the thought of a van on the back of a Porsche is great! Have you seen the spoof advert for them on the PCGB or ddk-online websites? I wish I could afford one as well
I HAVE BEEN WATCHING THIS THREAD WITH MUCH AMUSEMENT THAT SO MANY PEOPLE ARE SO BOTHERED ABOUT WHAT OTHER PEOPLE DRIVE WHO CARE'S.
I MYSELF HAVE A MITSUBISHI SPACE WAGON BUT AFTER BUYING MY NEW VAN A ADRIA ADORA 352LT I AM OVER THE 85% THAT IS RECOMMENDED, SO SURELY WITH VANS GETTING HEAVIER PEOPLE THAT HAVE 4X4 ARE MORE SAFETY CONSCIOUS I WISH THAT I COULD AFFORD A NEW CAR AND I WOULD DEFIANTLY CONSIDER A 4X4.
THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT HAVE 4X4 THAT DOSE SEEM POINTLESS IS IF IT HASN'T GOT A TOW BAR ON THE BACK
WELL THAT'S MY VIEW FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH.
JON
I MYSELF HAVE A MITSUBISHI SPACE WAGON BUT AFTER BUYING MY NEW VAN A ADRIA ADORA 352LT I AM OVER THE 85% THAT IS RECOMMENDED, SO SURELY WITH VANS GETTING HEAVIER PEOPLE THAT HAVE 4X4 ARE MORE SAFETY CONSCIOUS I WISH THAT I COULD AFFORD A NEW CAR AND I WOULD DEFIANTLY CONSIDER A 4X4.
THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT HAVE 4X4 THAT DOSE SEEM POINTLESS IS IF IT HASN'T GOT A TOW BAR ON THE BACK
WELL THAT'S MY VIEW FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH.
JON
NO arguement. My Discovery is comfortable, reliable, safe, economical and will cruise all day the legal limit. It's only accident causing speed merchants who moan about them. OK, so I don't go off road, how many owners of cars which are capable of over 120 mph (many are) do that speed? I buy and drive what I want. I pay for it.
You've answered you own question. The reason most 4X4's have GB stickers is that British drivers are better than their continental chums, and know that ordinary cars are not designed to tow one and a half tons of caravan. 4X4's ARE the only proper towing vehicle.
i started caravanning with a mondeo 1.8 m reg,the van i got from a supplier in my opinion was too heavy for the van,so i got a peugeot 406 2.1 diesel and it pulled the car with no probs,but i`ve now moved onto a frontera 2.5 diesel for stabilty and a little assurance that if the caravan happened to turn over for what ever reason,i might had more chance of keeping myself & family alive.
the 4*4 debate will go on forever,but at the end of the day,as long as we all get to where were going safely..what the hell
one big happy family
the 4*4 debate will go on forever,but at the end of the day,as long as we all get to where were going safely..what the hell
one big happy family
The continentals have far higher death rates on the roads than the UK so they are not a fine example to follow
I drive a Toyota Landcruiser and my last towcar was a Discovery, I drive them because I can, ok. Nobody is going to tell me not to, its as simple as that. They are big and heavy in all areas including mpg,servicing,initial outlay...the list goes on, but I am comfortable with it all and accept that for all this I will have to pay more. Anything smaller just wont do anymore. Ive come through the ranks in the usual way...hatchbacks, saloons etc. but now I am driving what feels good, fun, big and safe to me. My next towcar will be a Nissan Patrol the biggest I can get my hands on, which will be towing my next 'van...Lunar Lexon 640, twin axle. I will still give way to the little cars on the road and help out anybody who might be stuck because I am that type of a person. That said, if any moron in a little car does something stupid in front of me because they think that I am the "Big I Am" on the road, then I'm afraid they will find out why I drive what I do. Think about it small car people, Frank Bruno is a real nice guy but you wouldnt call him a w****r to his face, would you ??
well done.
ready your reply to the post,i can honestly say that yor attitude is whats causing the problems amongst caravanners.
at the end of the day,there are new caravanners setting up on their first time and they would like to think that this site would bring them some assurance and understanding of basic`s of towing..etc
regardless of what tows us to where ever we go,we can all enjoy a few drinks in the bar
caravanning is for getting away and having fun for gods sake.
ready your reply to the post,i can honestly say that yor attitude is whats causing the problems amongst caravanners.
at the end of the day,there are new caravanners setting up on their first time and they would like to think that this site would bring them some assurance and understanding of basic`s of towing..etc
regardless of what tows us to where ever we go,we can all enjoy a few drinks in the bar
caravanning is for getting away and having fun for gods sake.
5 years ago my hubby and me towed with a serria xr4x4 2.9 we had a 20ft caravan that was with in towing limits we ended up down a upside down on m4 where the car could not hold the caravan to road we now tow with a 2.9 showgun and have a 27 ft caravan we are safe and happy dont knock 4x4 their the safest tow cars take that from girl who has hung upside down in car on m4 i would tow with tank if it kept my family safe
Why not try a Ford Transit or a Mercedes the Gypsies seem to love them and they tow more than any one ,you cant get a better recomendation than that
Beware, the EU is watching. I read in the C&CC magazine that the EU is planning to up the tax ante on 4x4's. It won't apply to Britain intially but when have you seen our government turn down a chance to get more tax in? Where the EU beckons, they will follow eagerly.
Quote
"Beware, the EU is watching. I read in the C&CC magazine that the EU is planning to up the tax ante on 4x4's. It won't apply to Britain intially but when have you seen our government turn down a chance to get more tax in? Where the EU beckons, they will follow eagerly"
Cant see how they can do it really..... too many anomolies in the size/weights/mpg in all vehicles compared to hatches/saloons/exec cars.
How would they be able to justify taxing a diesel Nissan X-trail/Honda CRV or similar ilk more than a petrol mondeo when they are better in the economy/size/co2 stakes than the Mondeo?
One way I can see they can do it is through Co2 emmissions which will catch a lot of cars in the net..... So anyone with a car that emits more co2 than the average (anything bigger than a Focus etc) had better beware!!
Ok, they could set a tax on all vehicles that have an AWD/4x4 drivetrain but what happens when person A buys a 4wd X-trail and person B buys the 2wd version. Person A will be going to the EU courts as his car will be EXACTLY the same as B other than the drivetrain. Weight and economy are marginally different.
Personnaly I cant see how they can do it but im sure we will find out soon enough.
Shame really, as the original debate over people using 4x4's and not needing them was aimed at the school run mums who use them as a defence mechanism in congested city streets. Hence the term chelsea tractors.
With regard to 4x4 drivers having to justify there drive, they probably feel that the often have to do this because all the hype against them completley over looks the actual facts. Most the studies used against 4x4's is US based and has very little bearing on the UK market.
My personal opinion as an X-trail owner is this:
Those that drive 4x4's to bully other road users out the way need shooting. Those that drive ANY car 500 yards to take little jonny to school also need taking to one side and having a stiff word with. Those that buy them just as a status symbol probably has a personality deficiency or a little penis. Those that buy the smallest/most economical car that is suitable to there everyday requirements (whether it be a 4x4 or not) are quite justified in their personal choice of vehicle, live and let live
Steve
"Beware, the EU is watching. I read in the C&CC magazine that the EU is planning to up the tax ante on 4x4's. It won't apply to Britain intially but when have you seen our government turn down a chance to get more tax in? Where the EU beckons, they will follow eagerly"
Cant see how they can do it really..... too many anomolies in the size/weights/mpg in all vehicles compared to hatches/saloons/exec cars.
How would they be able to justify taxing a diesel Nissan X-trail/Honda CRV or similar ilk more than a petrol mondeo when they are better in the economy/size/co2 stakes than the Mondeo?
One way I can see they can do it is through Co2 emmissions which will catch a lot of cars in the net..... So anyone with a car that emits more co2 than the average (anything bigger than a Focus etc) had better beware!!
Ok, they could set a tax on all vehicles that have an AWD/4x4 drivetrain but what happens when person A buys a 4wd X-trail and person B buys the 2wd version. Person A will be going to the EU courts as his car will be EXACTLY the same as B other than the drivetrain. Weight and economy are marginally different.
Personnaly I cant see how they can do it but im sure we will find out soon enough.
Shame really, as the original debate over people using 4x4's and not needing them was aimed at the school run mums who use them as a defence mechanism in congested city streets. Hence the term chelsea tractors.
With regard to 4x4 drivers having to justify there drive, they probably feel that the often have to do this because all the hype against them completley over looks the actual facts. Most the studies used against 4x4's is US based and has very little bearing on the UK market.
My personal opinion as an X-trail owner is this:
Those that drive 4x4's to bully other road users out the way need shooting. Those that drive ANY car 500 yards to take little jonny to school also need taking to one side and having a stiff word with. Those that buy them just as a status symbol probably has a personality deficiency or a little penis. Those that buy the smallest/most economical car that is suitable to there everyday requirements (whether it be a 4x4 or not) are quite justified in their personal choice of vehicle, live and let live
Steve
The projected plan is I believe similar to many initiated from governments. There will be a blanket tax on either diesels or emmisions, and it will be up to the individual to justify his/her exemption. Sounds familiar to some of the 'credit systems we currently have.
Now, I have no truck with any form of government interference but I am aware for instance that earlier this year the UK adopted the common tax harmonisation scheme without ever putting it to parliament and only because the big boys of Europe, namely France and Germany had said it was a good idea as they didn't like the UK having tax havens in the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands. These are now closed down as such.
Now if those groups state that this is on environmental grounds, regardless of any truth in that, and of course they would not be adversely affected because the greatest concentration of 4x4's are in the UK, then I suspect they are more than likely to get the support of all Europe, except our populace. But since when has that made a difference?
Now, I have no truck with any form of government interference but I am aware for instance that earlier this year the UK adopted the common tax harmonisation scheme without ever putting it to parliament and only because the big boys of Europe, namely France and Germany had said it was a good idea as they didn't like the UK having tax havens in the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands. These are now closed down as such.
Now if those groups state that this is on environmental grounds, regardless of any truth in that, and of course they would not be adversely affected because the greatest concentration of 4x4's are in the UK, then I suspect they are more than likely to get the support of all Europe, except our populace. But since when has that made a difference?
Interesting - Post started in March by someone who does not post again - then resurected by a "Joby" who also does not post again.
As for the Gipsy comment - calculated wind up.
The child is still amongst us methinks.
As for the Gipsy comment - calculated wind up.
The child is still amongst us methinks.
" while those with a more open opinion drive in luxury with climate control, a sound system not drowned out by a harsh ride and noisey engine, heated seats, electric windows mirrors ect etc I could go on but I have the time or inclination".
hmmmm??? just described my Td5.ES
Live and let live, it makes no real difference to what we drive,really,lets just stick together as caravanners and hope this tax and spend government leave us alone!
Global warming, has been happening off and on for millions of years, and as far as I am aware this was not caused by the internal combustion engine, (unless someone unearths a fossilized Discovery/X5/Landcruiser/shogun.etc,etc)
Regards,
Nige.
hmmmm??? just described my Td5.ES
Live and let live, it makes no real difference to what we drive,really,lets just stick together as caravanners and hope this tax and spend government leave us alone!
Global warming, has been happening off and on for millions of years, and as far as I am aware this was not caused by the internal combustion engine, (unless someone unearths a fossilized Discovery/X5/Landcruiser/shogun.etc,etc)
Regards,
Nige.
Ask Clive about that one, someone told me that the "Time Team" wanted to carbon date his RR because they found the remains of a Roman Fort in the boot! Now you know how Hannibal managed to get over the Alps...
Nice one Lol - whilst the old RR is old it isn't quite fossilised yet - Driven by an old fossil maybe!!
Nige - agree with your sentiments. Its the fact that my old Range Rover is agricultural, its the fact that the V8 engine makes the most superb noise I have ever heard that I love it so much!
As for the ride well after 24 years the original suspension was well and truly cream crackerred. So about
Nige - agree with your sentiments. Its the fact that my old Range Rover is agricultural, its the fact that the V8 engine makes the most superb noise I have ever heard that I love it so much!
As for the ride well after 24 years the original suspension was well and truly cream crackerred. So about
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