A slight glitch?

[RogerL]

Why is it acceptable to suggest that if a business orders an IT system it will come with bugs that need fixing? Any other product you buy should be of merchantable quality, for some reason IT providers seem to hide behind 'upgrades' when what they should be saying is faults, or admit they have developed a less than acceptable product.

"Merchantable quality" and "absolutely perfect" are quite different - I doubt that any IT system has ever been developed which is totally bug-free - even the US space programme then and now has had the occasional bug.

The modern internet may look like it has less bugs than earlier decades but in reality it just updates from time to time without the user realising.

 

[RogerL]

Odd that it is taking so long to get back online.
We can usually get services back up and running in a few hours, at least with some basic level of functionality, or roll back to a safe state using a Disaster Recovery server. for it to be taking days is a bit concerning

It wouldn't surprise anyone who has worked in IT if the back-ups had a fault so whatever was new can't be rolled back - it doesn't happen often but it does happen.

 

[Buckman]

I guess if on Saturday past if you wanted to cancel a booking you would not have been able to within the "grace window"? Just a guess, but if you phone them you would still be holding until past the "grace window"?

 

[RogerL]

Many CLs are not listed on UK Campsite, but it is a good resource.

There is also the CL details in the handbook.

 

[woodsieboy]

I may be a dinosaur but the whole internet thing drives me crazy,in our business when we switched to using a computer for invoicing, we were able to buy a disc off the shelf, set it up and away we went, produced invoices , statements , reports etc, not connected to internet, still woking well for us now, along came HMRC and ruled that we needed to submit VAT digitally, so needed new system approved by HMRC, so new system is internet based, have to pay a monthly fee to use it, it does not do what we want for our business, but does what HMRC have ordained,often can't use it because internet won't connect to HMRC, also assumes that we can e mail invoices to our customers,where as we still prefer paper copy,as a result we still keep manual back up for when internet won't connect, so we now have provider controlling our business,advertising to us on a system we are paying for, that does not do what we want, and is unreliable, it will get worse when HMRC bring in the digital Self Assesment for income tax,and of course the monthy fee to use the wretched thing goes up every year.There must be a risk that one day an electrical failure will lead to all sytems that rely on electric failing, there will be no chargers working for EVs nor pumps working for ICE vehicles, no card payments, no phone chargers, we are doomed.

 

[Buckman]

I may be a dinosaur but the whole internet thing drives me crazy,in our business when we switched to using a computer for invoicing, we were able to buy a disc off the shelf, set it up and away we went, produced invoices , statements , reports etc, not connected to internet, still woking well for us now, along came HMRC and ruled that we needed to submit VAT digitally, so needed new system approved by HMRC, so new system is internet based, have to pay a monthly fee to use it, it does not do what we want for our business, but does what HMRC have ordained,often can't use it because internet won't connect to HMRC, also assumes that we can e mail invoices to our customers,where as we still prefer paper copy,as a result we still keep manual back up for when internet won't connect, so we now have provider controlling our business,advertising to us on a system we are paying for, that does not do what we want, and is unreliable, it will get worse when HMRC bring in the digital Self Assesment for income tax,and of course the monthy fee to use the wretched thing goes up every year.There must be a risk that one day an electrical failure will lead to all sytems that rely on electric failing, there will be no chargers working for EVs nor pumps working for ICE vehicles, no card payments, no phone chargers, we are doomed.

Last night we had a power failure therefore no Internet and cannot connect via mobile phones as no signal.

This morning we get two text messages. One stating that they are working on the problem and hope to restore power by the 24th. Next was to advise that power had been restored!

Unfortunately when there is no power no text messages. Secondly I think it is pretty obvious that the power is back on. However it is nice of them to let us know although belatedly.

 

[Buckman]

There is also the CL details in the handbook.

Sadly ours goes in the bin within days of receipt as do not expect a website for a multi-million company to crash and stayed crashed for days on end.

Probably totally coincidence, but for the first time in years we have been getting sales pitch phone calls in the past few days although our number is not listed. We are hoping that our data has not been compromised.

 

[Sam Vimes]

Last night we had a power failure therefore no Internet and cannot connect via mobile phones as no signal.

This morning we get two text messages. One stating that they are working on the problem and hope to restore power by the 24th. Next was to advise that power had been restored!

Unfortunately when there is no power no text messages. Secondly I think it is pretty obvious that the power is back on. However it is nice of them to let us know although belatedly.

We had a power failure last night for just over three hours. As I've mentioned a few times - Battery Back Up Units will keep you connected. Ours were still keeping the router and ont alive after the three hours power outage. So internet and mobile phone active. In fact the mobile phone signal itself was ok for a change so not totally reliant on Wifi Calling.

 

[Buckman]

We had a power failure last night for just over three hours. As I've mentioned a few times - Battery Back Up Units will keep you connected. Ours were still keeping the router and ont alive after the three hours power outage. So internet and mobile phone active. In fact the mobile phone signal itself was ok for a change so not totally reliant on Wifi Calling.

How much would a UPS or battery back up cost for domestic use and are their any recommended brands? Annoyingly our home phone also goes dead and we need to plug in an old analogue phone in case of emergency. No issue with the actual line itself, but the phones need power.

 

[otherclive]

Last night we had a power failure therefore no Internet and cannot connect via mobile phones as no signal.

This morning we get two text messages. One stating that they are working on the problem and hope to restore power by the 24th. Next was to advise that power had been restored!

Unfortunately when there is no power no text messages. Secondly I think it is pretty obvious that the power is back on. However it is nice of them to let us know although belatedly.

It’s not their fault that there is no power to enable text messages to be received. During power outages even mobile masts can be affected.

 

[otherclive]

I may be a dinosaur but the whole internet thing drives me crazy,in our business when we switched to using a computer for invoicing, we were able to buy a disc off the shelf, set it up and away we went, produced invoices , statements , reports etc, not connected to internet, still woking well for us now, along came HMRC and ruled that we needed to submit VAT digitally, so needed new system approved by HMRC, so new system is internet based, have to pay a monthly fee to use it, it does not do what we want for our business, but does what HMRC have ordained,often can't use it because internet won't connect to HMRC, also assumes that we can e mail invoices to our customers,where as we still prefer paper copy,as a result we still keep manual back up for when internet won't connect, so we now have provider controlling our business,advertising to us on a system we are paying for, that does not do what we want, and is unreliable, it will get worse when HMRC bring in the digital Self Assesment for income tax,and of course the monthy fee to use the wretched thing goes up every year.There must be a risk that one day an electrical failure will lead to all sytems that rely on electric failing, there will be no chargers working for EVs nor pumps working for ICE vehicles, no card payments, no phone chargers, we are doomed.

It’s not readily possible to test all possible software combinations in more complex systems. So a probabilistic approach has to be adopted. The amount of testing will be dependent on the complexity of the system plus the consequences of a failure. I had staff working on the fuel management system for the Typhoon which has a lot of fuel tanks, which require rapid management of fuel between tanks as in some modes the aircraft is unstable and it is the computer and software that keeps it safe. So a large number of iterations of sequences and phases were simulated to look for unacceptable outcomes. But I doubt the CMHC could afford that amount of testing ☹️

 

[Buckman]

It’s not their fault that there is no power to enable text messages to be received. During power outages even mobile masts can be affected.

I am aware of that which is why I put the laughing emoticon. The point is that if there is no power technology fails.

 

[Sam Vimes]

How much would a UPS or battery back up cost for domestic use and are their any recommended brands? Annoyingly our home phone also goes dead and we need to plug in an old analogue phone in case of emergency. No issue with the actual line itself, but the phones need power.

BT/EE sell them for use with their Smarthhub and ONTs. They're not cheap at about £85 each and you'd need two. I talked BT into giving them to me for free.

There are a lot of UPS boxes on Amazon but the decision about which ones depends on what equipment you want to power - e.g. what make of router and ont you have; anything else. The BT ones plug directly into the routher and ont and any other make would need to have the cables to plug into yours. An easier solution is to get a UPS that has 13A sockets on the power out side so you just plug in the the usual mains plugs from your equipment. These can vary in price but a typical one could be £60.

The decision though is how long you want to keep the equipment alive. The longer, the larger the battery would need to be - just like your caravan - and the more you pay.

If you're considering this the first thing I would try is to contact your ISP and tell them your a vunerable customer, with no mobile reception and see if they would give you the unit for free.

If that fails ask them for a recommendation.

 

[Sam Vimes]

It’s not readily possible to test all possible software combinations in more complex systems. So a probabilistic approach has to be adopted. The amount of testing will be dependent on the complexity of the system plus the consequences of a failure. I had staff working on the fuel management system for the Typhoon which has a lot of fuel tanks, which require rapid management of fuel between tanks as in some modes the aircraft is unstable and it is the computer and software that keeps it safe. So a large number of iterations of sequences and phases were simulated to look for unacceptable outcomes. But I doubt the CMHC could afford that amount of testing ☹️

This was my line of work in latter years. Safety critical systems for aircraft. The amount of effort that went into the Validation and Verification aspects and the Safety Analysis was huge and beyond the cost of most commercial systems. You could never reduce the risk of failure to zero but it had to be a very low level on those systems deemed safety critical.

While the safety analysis was based upon reliability failure rates, which are probabilistic in nature, the key factor was actually defining what level of failures would be acceptable. This inevitablly came down to financial decisions. That is how much pain could an aircraft manufacturer take from the law suits that result from a plane falling out of the sky. Boeing anyone?

The Typhoon - or Eurofighter as it was known - was one of mine.... well a small part of it anyway.

 

[Buckman]

Don't many commercial passenger planes have two or three back up systems in case one fails?

 

[Sam Vimes]

All of them do to prevent single point failures, which was why I thought the Boeing 737 Max 8 disaster was extremely bad because early indication was that the root cause was a faulty Angle of Attack Sensor. Supposedly there were two but there outputs were not compared.

The error was compounded by other factors in the MCAS system, which ultimately caused the crashes.

So if you have multiple systems they should be checking each other.

Typically though catastrophic failures are due to multiple factors rather than a single point failure.

 

[Jcloughie]

When I was at work, we had an IT department of 4 people dealing with about 500 computers. We used Microsoft software plus online software, commercial, government and international, some highly complex. Also reporting, accounting and HR systems. It was continually developed and expanded. From around 1986 to 2013 when I left, I can remember no problems. I think this was down to an excellent IT department and continual staff training. I also had full secure access from home.

It is possible. Perhaps CAMC doesn't invest sufficiently in that area.

John

 

[Buckman]

Still down this morning. Seems to be a cyber attack. See https://www.theregister.com/2024/01...gDNCjkagcJWrgmYM__StRAU23_iXW1Ci0PB7a1ghKN8wI

 

[Buckman]

I got the web link from another forum, but on the web link in it it states "Others expressed concern over the possibility that data indicating when they'd be on holiday, coupled with their home addresses, could have been leaked."

In view of the above I think we will be cancelling our bookings when the website eventually comes back on line and book with commercial sites.

 

[otherclive]

I got the web link from another forum, but on the web link in it it states "Others expressed concern over the possibility that data indicating when they'd be on holiday, coupled with their home addresses, could have been leaked."

In view of the above I think we will be cancelling our bookings when the website eventually comes back on line and book with commercial sites.

I think that I would do the same. Being a bit over cautious is no bad thing, as it’s doubtful that a full explanation would be forthcoming, or necessarily believed.

 

[Buckman]

Not here in the UK, but previously we have been burgled twice and had two cars stolen so still very security conscious perhaps too much? All on different occasions and over several years. Luckily in those days no cards to steal and use and no Internet. Stealing data was unheard of!

 

[otherclive]

Not here in the UK, but previously we have been burgled twice and had two cars stolen so still very security conscious perhaps too much? All on different occasions and over several years. Luckily in those days no cards to steal and use and no Internet. Stealing data was unheard of!

My phone tells me if a password has been compromised and a security app on my MAC trawls the dark web to see if my details are shown.

 

[Milkfloat]

If you are paranoid enough to cancel your bookings, don't rebook for the same period as anyone who does have access to the data won't know that you cancelled.

Personally, I will not be cancelling my bookings, the likelihood of the data being sold to a local thief who is interested in burglaries is very low. It would be far more likely to be used in financial scams from abroad.

 

[Dustydog]

I would imagine the computer systems on a Typhoon or an Airbus are light years advanced on that used by CAMC.
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qantas_Flight_72

Lest we forget our membership fees to CAMC are not that much when you take into account the monthly magazine. So there can’t be much left for flashy IT systems never mind the costs of running the sites etc.
I still get my hard copy handbook and that lists all the sites. I can use a telephone 😉
Are we really saying we are now totally dependent on CAMC IT?

 

[Buckman]

😉
Are we really saying we are now totally dependent on CAMC IT?

Unfortunately it seems that way? One of the reasons why I am very reluctant to use Cloud as a backup of my system.