Air pollution?

[toad a caravan]

Sky's turned blue,, possible cause yellow disc emitting light and heat,,😄

 

[ProfJohnL]

Sky's turned blue,, possible cause yellow disc emitting light and heat,,😄

Sounds like global warming to me....

 

[Dustydog]

Air Pollution to me was the fogs and smogs of London before the smokeless zones were brought in.
I read this in an article a while back. Is it true ?? I hope not 🙉

A 2021 study found that lithium concentration and production from brine can create about 11 tons of carbon dioxide per ton of lithium, while mining lithium from spodumene ore releases about 37 tons of CO2 per ton of lithium produced.12 Feb

 

[Tobes]

Air Pollution to me was the fogs and smogs of London before the smokeless zones were brought in.
I read this in an article a while back. Is it true ?? I hope not 🙉

A 2021 study found that lithium concentration and production from brine can create about 11 tons of carbon dioxide per ton of lithium, while mining lithium from spodumene ore releases about 37 tons of CO2 per ton of lithium produced.12 Feb

It may well be true, but I have not searched for a source.

If it is , then a 100kWh battery (a big battery, good for well over 300 miles of range), which contains about 63kg of lithium will be responsible for 2.3 tonnes of CO2.

1 litre of diesel when burned will produce 2.6kgs of CO2, so burning 884 litres of diesel will also generate 2.3 tonnes of CO2.
At 50mpg, that's enough diesel for just under 10,000 miles.

This does not include the CO2 costs of battery manufacture from the raw lithium, or the CO2 associated with charging the battery. But, it also does not include the CO2 associated with extracting the diesel, refining it and getting it to the pump (640g/l well to tank for diesel).

If you feel like exploring the data in some detail, I can recommend the Polestar Lifecycle assessment report for the Polestar 4. It has real figures on the environmental costs associated with both manufacture and use of the car.

https://www.polestar.com/dato-assets/11286/1699610322-polestar-4_lca_report_2023-11-08.pdf

 

[Dustydog]

Thanks Tobes . I’ll pass on that . I’m all maxed out trying to be green 😉

 

[Tobes]

Thanks Tobes . I’ll pass on that . I’m all maxed out trying to be green 😉

I understand. There is pressure from everywhere right now. I guess my point was, when looking at stats for pollutants of any form (or indeed stats of any kind), you need a yard stick against which to measure it and make sure it stays in context with your own thinking 11 Tonnes or 37 Tonnes of CO2 sounds enormous to get 1 Tonne of Lithium right? but one you put it into context of something else - its far less imposing.

It 37 tonnes of CO2 the same amount of CO2 as is generated by burning 5.5 barrels of oil.
In 2024 the world mined 300,000 tonnes of Lithium, and about 4.5 Billion tonnes of oil, of which about 60% was burned for fuel.

The lithium mining is noise compared to the pollution from oil.

Nothing needs to be done with this information, other than recognise that sometimes things that look "big", need context...

 

[otherclive]

I understand. There is pressure from everywhere right now. I guess my point was, when looking at stats for pollutants of any form (or indeed stats of any kind), you need a yard stick against which to measure it and make sure it stays in context with your own thinking 11 Tonnes or 37 Tonnes of CO2 sounds enormous to get 1 Tonne of Lithium right? but one you put it into context of something else - its far less imposing.

It 37 tonnes of CO2 the same amount of CO2 as is generated by burning 5.5 barrels of oil.
In 2024 the world mined 300,000 tonnes of Lithium, and about 4.5 Billion tonnes of oil, of which about 60% was burned for fuel.

The lithium mining is noise compared to the pollution from oil.

Nothing needs to be done with this information, other than recognise that sometimes things that look "big", need context...

37 tonnes of CO2 from burning 5.5 barrels of oil seems a lot. Is that correct?

“The average carbon dioxide coefficient of distillate fuel oil is 20.22 MMT C/QBtu, which converts to 431.87 kg CO2 per 42-gallon barrel (EPA 2024b). ”

 

[Tobes]

37 tonnes of CO2 from burning 5.5 barrels of oil seems a lot. Is that correct?

“The average carbon dioxide coefficient of distillate fuel oil is 20.22 MMT C/QBtu, which converts to 431.87 kg CO2 per 42-gallon barrel (EPA 2024b). ”

You are totally right - I messed up the maths here. I need to redo all my homework...

5.5 barrels or 884 of diesel at 2.6kg per L is 2.3 tonnes.
37 tonnes of CO2 is the equivalent of 14,200 litres of diesel.

I also drew a completely incorrect equivalence between crude oil and diesel.

Based on your figure, CO2 associated with 1 tonne of mined lithium is the same as that of 85.8 barrels of oil.

But this still remains true.
The lithium mining is noise compared to the pollution from oil.

 

[otherclive]

You are totally right - I messed up the maths here. I need to redo all my homework...

5.5 barrels or 884 of diesel at 2.6kg per L is 2.3 tonnes.
37 tonnes of CO2 is the equivalent of 14,200 litres of diesel.

I also drew a completely incorrect equivalence between crude oil and diesel.

Based on your figure, CO2 associated with 1 tonne of mined lithium is the same as that of 85.8 barrels of oil.

But this still remains true.
The lithium mining is noise compared to the pollution from oil.

Agree that so often the true environmental damage resulting from the usage of oil over its life cycle is too often not recognised. But despite oil companies walking back on their plans the time of peak oil is approaching.