Air pollution?

[Tobes]

Insurance, breakdown cover and MoT need to be included - and can make a low mileage second car no cheaper to run than the main IC car - been there, got the T-shirt!

Of course - 2nd cars have their own expenses, no mater the fuel and drive train. Figuring out where to minimise them where possible is what counts.
We put our small car on our main Mayday policy for breakdown - never used it, but it's only £30 a year over the main towing cover.
Insurance is what it is - pick the right car for the lowest insurance group, and keep the insured miles accurate. MOT will cost the same, though fixes may be cheaper on some cars than others.
But I can guarantee - all other things equal - doing 50 to 100 miles a week in an EV will be _much_ cheaper than the same miles in a diesel, especially if they are local miles with minimum time for combustion engines to get to operating temperature. Our XC90 diesel used to barely get 20mpg on the school run. 5 miles each way, 10 trips a week, 100 miles a week for about £30 to £35. Same run in the EV is £2.50. Thats a £1500 a year saving just by changing fuel type.

 

[RogerL]

Of course - 2nd cars have their own expenses, no mater the fuel and drive train. Figuring out where to minimise them where possible is what counts.
We put our small car on our main Mayday policy for breakdown - never used it, but it's only £30 a year over the main towing cover.
Insurance is what it is - pick the right car for the lowest insurance group, and keep the insured miles accurate. MOT will cost the same, though fixes may be cheaper on some cars than others.
But I can guarantee - all other things equal - doing 50 to 100 miles a week in an EV will be _much_ cheaper than the same miles in a diesel, especially if they are local miles with minimum time for combustion engines to get to operating temperature. Our XC90 diesel used to barely get 20mpg on the school run. 5 miles each way, 10 trips a week, 100 miles a week for about £30 to £35. Same run in the EV is £2.50. Thats a £1500 a year saving just by changing fuel type.

As I discovered, one of the "problems" with using a second car for all the short journeys is that the annual total may not amount to much so the saving on the main car is equally small. Our experiment with a small second car managed less than 1,000 miles in each of the 3 years we tried it - so even with a big diesel there's only about £200 fuel cost saved.

Now in my/our case I'm no longer working or have children at home so there's no daily commute and no school run - but back in the day, our school run alone was 8,000 miles/year as the school was 10 miles away.

 

[Tobes]

As I discovered, one of the "problems" with using a second car for all the short journeys is that the annual total may not amount to much so the saving on the main car is equally small. Our experiment with a small second car managed less than 1,000 miles in each of the 3 years we tried it - so even with a big diesel there's only about £200 fuel cost saved.

Now in my/our case I'm no longer working or have children at home so there's no daily commute and no school run - but back in the day, our school run alone was 8,000 miles/year as the school was 10 miles away.

Indeed - 2nd cars have the problem of "diminishing returns". If you don't need a 2nd car to support simultaneous trips, you need to think hard about the validity of the 2nd car at all.
Again - a 2nd car that has a cheaper drive train can sustain a lower level of use than one with a higher cost drive train that might approach that of the main car. Every situation will have its own set of tradeoffs and costs and will need to be evaluated on its own merits.

 

[Hutch]

When I retired, we thought about a runabout and a tow car. Ended up with just the Brand New Santa Fe, now 11 years old and 98 k miles.
 No problems with short trips, 3 to 4 miles a day.
It would be nice to have a nippy runabout but I have my motorbike. But that takes me longer to get kitted up than it takes to get to the shops.

 

[otherclive]

Since 2007 we have had two low cost runabouts (Diesel Note, petrol Rio) both were bought nearly new so minimum deprecation, and cheap as chips to maintain and run, plus they have both been virtually faultless. The Rio is economical around town and will give 55 mpg on urban or motorway runs. It’s currently being shared with our grandson who last year got rid of his Tesla and went down to one car as a savings measure. Our aim is to keep the Rio as long as we feel there is overall benefit. Nice thing too is it goes in and out of car parks and hasn’t even picked up a slight ding.

 

[Buckman]

If an EV cost a few thousand more than the equivalent ICE vehicle and then you need to pay a couple of thousand for the hookup bollard outside your home to recharge it, how can an EV be cheaper to run than the ICE which is giving you over 60mpg? Also need to take into consideration that soon EVs will be paying VED.

 

[woodsieboy]

Can anybody tell me how much our emissions, as a percentage of world emissions, have reduced since the adoption of wind an solar and electric cars in UK?

 

[AndrewAventura]

Can anybody tell me how much our emissions, as a percentage of world emissions, have reduced since the adoption of wind an solar and electric cars in UK?

That's a pretty complex question to answer, lots of assumptions involved.

But this site https://ourworldindata.org/co2/country/united-kingdom presents various graphs and trends for CO2 in the UK, and we're emitting and consuming much less now than 50 years ago.

 

[Dustydog]

I really do not understand this desire for carbon zero.🙀

Unless Botany has changed over the last 55 years don’t we need CO2 for plants and trees to complete photosynthesis making the oxygen we all need for life?
May be plant more trees and greenery😉

My son’s experiences with a Vauxhall Vivaro EV van and the last year with a Volvo XC40 Recharge is interesting. Nothing much has changed since I wroteThis

The winter has been very trying on the longer distance journeys especially with young children aboard. Cost wise, charging at home is very cheap. On the road charging can be very expensive. The VED will go up I expect as will the low personal benefit in kind which remains a good bonus.
He’s also found it is far better cruising at 50/60 on longer runs than the 70 ,I might do. The difference in achievable range is quite significant.

Overall it wouldn’t suit my lifestyle but for a second “shopping trolley “ yes.

 

[otherclive]

I really do not understand this desire for carbon zero.🙀

Unless Botany has changed over the last 55 years don’t we need CO2 for plants and trees to complete photosynthesis making the oxygen we all need for life?
May be plant more trees and greenery😉

Certainly planting more trees is a positive move, but over the 55years you mention I wonder how much forest has been destroyed around the world? The link below covers 25 years and every two years an area the size of Portugal is still being lost despite efforts to stem the loss.

Global Deforestation Rates & Statistics by Country | GFW

In 2020, the world had 3.68 Gha of natural forest, extending over 28% of its land area. In {year}, it lost 23.9 Mha of natural forest, equivalent to 14.7 Gt of CO₂ emissions.

www.globalforestwatch.org

Deforestation and Forest Loss

Explore long-term changes in deforestation and deforestation rates across the world today.

ourworldindata.org

 

[Dustydog]

Certainly planting more trees is a positive move, but over the 55years you mention I wonder how much forest has been destroyed around the world? The link below covers 25 years and every two years an area the size of Portugal is still being lost despite efforts to stem the loss.

Global Deforestation Rates & Statistics by Country | GFW

In 2020, the world had 3.68 Gha of natural forest, extending over 28% of its land area. In {year}, it lost 23.9 Mha of natural forest, equivalent to 14.7 Gt of CO₂ emissions.

www.globalforestwatch.org

Deforestation and Forest Loss

Explore long-term changes in deforestation and deforestation rates across the world today.

ourworldindata.org

World Resource Institute summed up rather worryingly the causes of deforestation..Pretty similar to the articles you quoted.

I guess it’s the sign of the times Clive. No free lunches😉

 

[otherclive]

World Resource Institute summed up rather worryingly the causes of deforestation..Pretty similar to the articles you quoted.

I guess it’s the sign of the times Clive. No free lunches😉

I take global warming seriously, not for us as apart from a soggy garden in winter we won’t be around to suffer the longer term effects. My kids are in their fifties so will experience further effects, but it’s my grand kids and their offspring who will be affected by todays actions, or lack of actions, to tackle the problem. I’d like their future to be as good as we have had over our lifetimes, albeit undoubtedly different.

 

[Buckman]

Certainly planting more trees is a positive move, but over the 55years you mention I wonder how much forest has been destroyed around the world? The link below covers 25 years and every two years an area the size of Portugal is still being lost despite efforts to stem the loss.

I agree 100% as it is so sad to seem the Amazon forest being destroyed on a daily basis and turned into farmland! IMHO that is a bigger danger than CO2 air pollution.

 

[otherclive]

I agree 100% as it is so sad to seem the Amazon forest being destroyed on a daily basis and turned into farmland! IMHO that is a bigger danger than CO2 air pollution.

Agree, but isn’t it a question of source and sink. The two go together.

 

[Buckman]

Agree, but isn’t it a question of source and sink. The two go together.

Yes that is what i was suggesting.

 

[woodsieboy]

Hi Andrew
So in 2023 we are at 0.81%, the figure often quoted is that UK produces 1% of world wide emissions, so even with the raft of solar and wind and electric cars we are down to 0.81%, in my experience the difference is within the margin of error, so it seems to me that we are risking our energy security and our national security to send a signal to the rest of the world how stupid we are.
Of course percentages vary and it could be that our 0.81% is achieved because of other countries increasing their percentages by developing extra fossil fuel useage.
Either way I take the view that we are never going to make a significant difference by going it alone, and why would we not make use of our own untapped resources, if only to become less dependant on others.

 

[Buckman]

Hi Andrew
So in 2023 we are at 0.81%, the figure often quoted is that UK produces 1% of world wide emissions, so even with the raft of solar and wind and electric cars we are down to 0.81%, in my experience the difference is within the margin of error, so it seems to me that we are risking our energy security and our national security to send a signal to the rest of the world how stupid we are.
Of course percentages vary and it could be that our 0.81% is achieved because of other countries increasing their percentages by developing extra fossil fuel useage.
Either way I take the view that we are never going to make a significant difference by going it alone, and why would we not make use of our own untapped resources, if only to become less dependant on others.

Oh dear you are going to get banned as the greenies will not like your honest post!

 

[otherclive]

Hi Andrew
So in 2023 we are at 0.81%, the figure often quoted is that UK produces 1% of world wide emissions, so even with the raft of solar and wind and electric cars we are down to 0.81%, in my experience the difference is within the margin of error, so it seems to me that we are risking our energy security and our national security to send a signal to the rest of the world how stupid we are.
Of course percentages vary and it could be that our 0.81% is achieved because of other countries increasing their percentages by developing extra fossil fuel useage.
Either way I take the view that we are never going to make a significant difference by going it alone, and why would we not make use of our own untapped resources, if only to become less dependant on others.

So I guess that all the CO2 we have emitted since the start of the Industrial Revolution counts for nothing and can be written off?

 

[Buckman]

So I guess that all the CO2 we have emitted since the start of the Industrial Revolution counts for nothing and can be written off?

Don't forget about nature polluting the air before mankind even existed.

 

[Tobes]

If an EV cost a few thousand more than the equivalent ICE vehicle and then you need to pay a couple of thousand for the hookup bollard outside your home to recharge it, how can an EV be cheaper to run than the ICE which is giving you over 60mpg? Also need to take into consideration that soon EVs will be paying VED.

There are two "ifs" there - neither of which need apply. When buying a car, you have a budget, you look inside that budget to see what you can get. You may find an EV, you may not. If you do it will have lower running costs than an ICE at the same price. If you don't need more than a hundred or so miles a week, you don't need a dedicated charger either. My FIL ran a PHEV for nearly 4 years on a 13A socket, and when he sold his caravan, he sold the PHEV for an e208, which he still charges from the 13A socket.

Yes - EV will be paying VED when renewed from April 1st. It will be the same price as any other car, so no disadvantage.

 

[otherclive]

Don't forget about nature polluting the air before mankind even existed.

Not volcanoes again. Thought that had been well and truly put to sleep 😂😂😂

 

[Tobes]

I really do not understand this desire for carbon zero.🙀

NET zero carbon. Not, zero carbon. These are not the same thing.

Unless Botany has changed over the last 55 years don’t we need CO2 for plants and trees to complete photosynthesis making the oxygen we all need for life?
May be plant more trees and greenery😉

Yes, they do, but too much and they die too. Same with humans. We need water for life, right? See how long a human lasts in a 100% water environment. or 100% Oxygen. This is about balance.

My son’s experiences with a Vauxhall Vivaro EV van and the last year with a Volvo XC40 Recharge is interesting. Nothing much has changed since I wroteThis

The winter has been very trying on the longer distance journeys especially with young children aboard. Cost wise, charging at home is very cheap. On the road charging can be very expensive. The VED will go up I expect as will the low personal benefit in kind which remains a good bonus.
He’s also found it is far better cruising at 50/60 on longer runs than the 70 ,I might do. The difference in achievable range is quite significant.

Overall it wouldn’t suit my lifestyle but for a second “shopping trolley “ yes.

Indeed - each person has their own needs and some can benefit from different technology.
If anyone is about to go about and buy a new car, for whatever reason, it makes sense to look at everything open to you right? After all you would not rule out a car because it was a specific colour, or had a particular number of letters in its name. Drive train is just another option to choose from. Each type has its benefits and drawbacks. If they work for you - great. if not, rule it out. But don't eliminate it "just because" without examining the potential.

 

[Buckman]

There are two "ifs" there - neither of which need apply. When buying a car, you have a budget, you look inside that budget to see what you can get. You may find an EV, you may not. If you do it will have lower running costs than an ICE at the same price. If you don't need more than a hundred or so miles a week, you don't need a dedicated charger either. My FIL ran a PHEV for nearly 4 years on a 13A socket, and when he sold his caravan, he sold the PHEV for an e208, which he still charges from the 13A socket.

Yes - EV will be paying VED when renewed from April 1st. It will be the same price as any other car, so no disadvantage.

Not sure how it can have lower running costs if you take into account the extra you pay for the new EV above the cost of the equivalent new ICE car plus of course the cost of the bollard?

What is the point in buying a PHEV or EV if you can only use a normal 13amp plug to recharge it at £0.45ppkw? Where we live we cannot drape cables across the pavement whether the car is parked at the front or the back of the home and I guess many people are in a similar predicament.

Lastly having been wandering around dealer forecourt it was surprising the number of second hand low mileage EVs up for sale and they were mostly priced much lower than the ICE equivalent. Some of these EVs were not even a year old.

I suspect that they were registered by the dealership to make EV sales look good and to avoid that totally ridiculous and silly £15000 fine?

 

[Buckman]

Not volcanoes again. Thought that had been well and truly put to sleep 😂😂😂

Boom, boom! Any sleeping volcanoes in Iceland?

 

[otherclive]

Oh dear you are going to get banned as the greenies will not like your honest post!

As a Remainer I accept there are differing views of the world. Might not agree with them, but laud freedom of expression.