Air pollution?

[Buckman]

In the case of transport, it is beyond doubt and certainly not a myth, that EV's are significantly more energy efficient than any form of IC engine.

If so, why do they need fossil fuel to recharge? Why do they have to mine for the rare metals and destroy the environment. Are the batteries made in the UK so no need to ship them from the other side of the world? Total myth that EVs are environmentally friendly!

 

[otherclive]

If so, why do they need fossil fuel to recharge? Why do they have to mine for the rare metals and destroy the environment. Are the batteries made in the UK so no need to ship them from the other side of the world? Total myth that EVs are environmentally friendly!

Doesn’t your Lexus hybrid have a propulsion battery, and how did the car get from Japan to Britain, and doesn’t the production of petrol and diesel affect the environment in areas around the world? Currently at this time over 50% of energy generation in Britain is renewable and clean. So I guess cars are benefiting from it.

 

[Dustydog]

They always say think outside the box😉

I have no wish to be insensitive to others wishes but in the spirit if this thread the following is a bit of an eye opener. Time for more Cemeteries perhaps 🤔

One cremation is estimated to produce 535 lbs of CO2. This is the equivalent of a 609 mile car journey in an average sized car. The combustion of fossil fuels also causes the emission of carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxides and sulfur dioxide. Other noxious substances emitted include fine soot and mercury.

 

[otherclive]

Crikey and I’ve got five sets of dog’s ashes to scatter before I pop off. But the garden soils weren’t deep enough for burials.

I’m down for a natural burial with minimum attendance and a Piper playing “The Black Bear” as the attendees make their way back to their cars and on to the pub.

 

[Hutch]

Isn't a hybrid different to an EV?

You really haven't done your research, before buying this Lexus then.
I hope it's not a PHEV.

 

[otherclive]

Isn't a hybrid different to an EV?

???? 😱

 

[Dustydog]

Crikey and I’ve got five sets of dog’s ashes to scatter before I pop off. But the garden soils weren’t deep enough for burials.

I’m down for a natural burial with minimum attendance and a Piper playing “The Black Bear” as the attendees make their way back to their cars and on to the pub.

“Stairway To Heaven” going hot😉 Ashes with the three dogs in our secret place in the woods.

 

[otherclive]

“Stairway To Heaven” going hot😉 Ashes with the three dogs in our secret place in the woods.

My wife might say “ dont pre judge the destination”. 🪽 or 👹

 

[Dustydog]

My wife might say “ dont pre judge the destination”. 🪽 or 👹

I did say “hot”👍

 

[ProfJohnL]

If so, why do they need fossil fuel to recharge? Why do they have to mine for the rare metals and destroy the environment. Are the batteries made in the UK so no need to ship them from the other side of the world? Total myth that EVs are environmentally friendly!

EV's do not "need" fossil fuels to recharge, they use electricity regardless of how its generated. The mix of fuels used to generate electricity is not dictated by the use of an EV. I could argue that all EV's use renewables, and its all the other purposes we use electricity for that cause the generators to switch on extra generation capacity which might use fossil fuel.

The vast majority of cars (EV and ICE) sold in the UK are imported, so the source country of batteries is no more contentious than all other parts of our cars.

If we consider the total environmental impact of building and running EV's and ICE vehicle across the full lifetime of the vehicles, EVs may have a larger manufacturing impact than ICE, but the running, the pollution balance quickly changes, as ICE produce not only tail pipe emissions, but you have the continual destruction of oil reserves, and the cost of finding, extracting, storing, transporting, refining, delivering refined product, the cost of maintaining service stations, and the power they use throughout the lifetime of the vehicle which vastly outstrip the costs of delivering electricity to homes or charge points for EV's.

 

[Dustydog]

You can subscribe to This site. The one shown was at 08.10 hrs today.
Probably more green energy than most appreciate.😎

However as with all these things no account or discussion is allowed for in the original construction, what pollution etc that may have been incurred and is the final cost reasonable for the end user.

My main concern is the uncertainty of the British weather.

 

[otherclive]

You can subscribe to This site. The one shown was at 08.10 hrs today.
Probably more green energy than most appreciate.😎

However as with all these things no account or discussion is allowed for in the original construction, what pollution etc that may have been incurred and is the final cost reasonable for the end user.

My main concern is the uncertainty of the British weather.

That’s a useful link. Having looked at the Gridwatch demand site for a couple of years I’ve been pleased at the amount of renewable and carbon neutral energy that is generated. It’s regularly over 50% and growing. The weak area is when we sit under a cloudy wind free high pressure zone. That’s when the gas fired generators really ramp up. But as more renewables come on line and HPC starts to deliver power then gas usage will fall further.

One thing restricting the advance of renewables is a technical shortage affecting the ability to install and maintain and connect renewables to the grid. Near to us a proposed large solar park near Malmesbury will have its output connected to the grid in Melksham; all by buried cables though.

As an aside solar takes up far less ground than golf courses or Christmas tree plantations. 🙈

 

[Oscarmax]

We export far more than we import off peak and that includes 1700kWh per year to charge our PHEV, as stated before we only use petrol for towing even when towing we can recover over 30% from regeneration, when not towing on holiday over 50% regeneration, it all help.

 

[Dustydog]

Lime Down Solar Park , if it goes ahead will decimate some of the finest agricultural producing land in Wiltshire. It is spread over five massive sites. Note just how much extra land will be required for the cabling.

Our now defunct North Wiltshire , now South Cotswolds , MP ran a massive campaign against it. Not just nimby but genuinely in the wrong place destroying at least nine local villages. The cost may be prohibitive when you look at the horrendous costs of HS2.

I have no personal view as it is 10 miles from me👍

This is worth a read

 

[RogerL]

Lime Down Solar Park , if it goes ahead will decimate some of the finest agricultural producing land in Wiltshire. It is spread over five massive sites. Note just how much extra land will be required for the cabling.

Our now defunct North Wiltshire , now South Cotswolds , MP ran a massive campaign against it. Not just nimby but genuinely in the wrong place destroying at least nine local villages. The cost may be prohibitive when you look at the horrendous costs of HS2.

I have no personal view as it is 10 miles from me👍

This is worth a read

Surely the land for cabling will be reinstated after - there's been plenty of gas and oil pipelines installed like that, with no permanent "loss" of land.

 

[Dustydog]

Surely the land for cabling will be reinstated after - there's been plenty of gas and oil pipelines installed like that, with no permanent "loss" of land.

Apparently as I read it all part of compulsory purchase and not intended for other use. Who knows ?These things change daily 😉

 

[otherclive]

Surely the land for cabling will be reinstated after - there's been plenty of gas and oil pipelines installed like that, with no permanent "loss" of land.

It’s normal to reinstate the land such as 2-3 years later you wouldn’t know cables had been buried. Two schemes I’m familiar with are a major water pipe from Ladybower Dams in Derbyshire to Cropston reservoir near Leicester in the Charnwood Forest area. Second one was a power cable running from the Llyn Brianne reservoir hydro station down to Rhandirmwyn. Both schemes are totally invisible.

It’s a difficult one for the local residents but with solar a farmer can make a guaranteed yearly income for 25-30 years that far exceeds the best profit per acre from wheat in a perfect summer; and with less workload.
Solar farms near us have grazing around the panels. And when fusion arrives the PV farms can be returned to farmland. 🤞

Which is better: a hectare of solar or wheat? | Carbon Commentary

What happens when a hectare of UK land is transferred from agriculture to producing electricity from solar panels? This note looks at the impact on energy production, the UK’s trade balance and the productivity of the economy. The numbers show the huge advantage of using land for solar electricity.

www.carboncommentary.com

 

[Mel]

I heard about a campaign to put solar panels on warehouses’ roofs. Never occurred to me but the space is clearly vast. Apparently the limiting factor is Grid Capacity for the electrical feed in. ( Please don’t ask me about the technicalities, this was a 5 minute news item)
Mel

 

[otherclive]

I heard about a campaign to put solar panels on warehouses’ roofs. Never occurred to me but the space is clearly vast. Apparently the limiting factor is Grid Capacity for the electrical feed in. ( Please don’t ask me about the technicalities, this was a 5 minute news item)
Mel

That’s why the proposed Lime Down PV park in Wiltshire is having to connect to a sub station some 20 miles away and crossing M4 and GW railway line.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Lime Down Solar Park , if it goes ahead will decimate some of the finest agricultural producing land in Wiltshire. It is spread over five massive sites. Note just how much extra land will be required for the cabling.
....

The installation of Solar PV does not "decimate" land as you have said. The land will hardly adversely be affected. compared to other human activity the installation won't have such deep foundations as building a factory or even a power station. The installation of PV does not pollute the land like other industrial processes, and ultimately the land can easily be returned to completely to farming if or when the PV systems is no longer required. Try doing that for almost any other type of building especially where chemicals or other pollutants may have been used.

Whilst a PV array might restrict arable farming, in many places where Solar has been installed the site can still be grazed, in fact grazing is a great way to keep the site from being over run by grasses and weeds.

The routing of feed in cables may be a little contentious, but if the area as a whole was to have its electrical supply updated as a development of the National Grid without the PV similar amounts of land would have been required for underground systems. As others have said in most places where such work is carried out the land is restored and nature quite quickly disguises the works. The location of the cables may need to be protected from future developments but that is no different to the situation today with power, gas, water mains and sewers.

I can understand that some locals may feel the construction of a solar PV farm will spoil the visual appearance of an area, But when its operating It wont create noise, smells or spills its Vegan friendly, and it will make the UK even more independent on energy supplies from fossil fuels, and source from abroad.

We have a very idyllic view of the English landscape, rolling hills and hedgerows, meadows and rivers etc - even canals, But the reality is the English countryside is almost all been changed by man, and most of the views we seek so hard to protect are not the natural state of our landmass but are derived from centuries of land owners wishing to partition and demarcate their land ownership, along with farming on an industrial scale.

Solar PV and wind farms are just the next phase of our conquering our habitat.

 

[Mel]

This week I have been laid low by a bug. I am better now but for a couple of days was cotton wool headed and could not focus on very much, so found myself leafing through a “garden centre/lifestyle tat” catalogue that had come through the door. It would normally have gone straight into the recycling bin. Who knew that my life was short of a plastic solar powered meerkat garden light. The amount of completely unnecessary stuff was ridiculous. A massive contributor to the burden on our planet and ecosystems is just rampant consumption of a load of stuff we certainly do not need and probably do not really want. We all have far too much “stuff” ( me included) and far far more stuff than my parents and grandparents had.
A bit of throttling back on consumerism would not go amiss.
Mel

 

[otherclive]

This week I have been laid low by a bug. I am better now but for a couple of days was cotton wool headed and could not focus on very much, so found myself leafing through a “garden centre/lifestyle tat” catalogue that had come through the door. It would normally have gone straight into the recycling bin. Who knew that my life was short of a plastic solar powered meerkat garden light. The amount of completely unnecessary stuff was ridiculous. A massive contributor to the burden on our planet and ecosystems is just rampant consumption of a load of stuff we certainly do not need and probably do not really want. We all have far too much “stuff” ( me included) and far far more stuff than my parents and grandparents had.
A bit of throttling back on consumerism would not go amiss.
Mel

It irritates my wife when I refer to a nearby garden centre as a Temple of Rampant Consumerism. It used to be an excellent garden centre but it’s now dominated by a host of sub businesses not all aligned with gardening.

 

[Hutch]

It irritates my wife when I refer to a nearby garden centre as a Temple of Rampant Consumerism. It used to be an excellent garden centre but it’s now dominated by a host of sub businesses not all aligned with gardening.

So very true, we have two very near us, full of non garden related TAT

 

[Tobes]

As said you need new rose tinted specs or a better understanding of what was written. Where are these millions of people being ruined by ICE vehicles? Climate change has been happening for thousands or millions of years and is just another term for governments to use to increase taxes and ruin more lives. As for sea level change, surely even you know that is a total joke? What could possibly cause the sea level to rise?

Anyway I am happy with the dirty diesel we bought and may it live long to continue polluting the same or probably less than EVs.

Regarding sea level change

NASA Analysis Shows Unexpected Amount of Sea Level Rise in 2024 - NASA

Last year’s increase was due to an unusual amount of ocean warming, combined with meltwater from land-based ice such as glaciers.

www.nasa.gov

 

[otherclive]

As said you need new rose tinted specs or a better understanding of what was written. Where are these millions of people being ruined by ICE vehicles? Climate change has been happening for thousands or millions of years and is just another term for governments to use to increase taxes and ruin more lives. As for sea level change, surely even you know that is a total joke? What could possibly cause the sea level to rise?

Anyway I am happy with the dirty diesel we bought and may it live long to continue polluting the same or probably less than EVs.

If you melt glacial ice, or ice cap ice where do you think the water goes; into the sea.. The level in a gin and tonic will rise if you put ice in the drink and the ice then melts and the level stays higher than before ice was added. The reason it’s not visible is the G&T is being drunk before you notice the effect.

I thought that you had bought a Lexus petrol hybrid?