Alternatives to the Sprite Musketeer

[sheaf]

Hi all, newbie here... I'm a long time camper, having camped/caravanned all my life in some form.

We've reached the point where, with 2 kids (4 and 6) going away in the tent is getting too much of an effort. Pre packing, set up, lack of storage, packing up after etc, so are thinking of switching to a caravan.

We have a Mazda 6 Sport 2.2D which is plenty capable of towing around 1300kg.

Looking at various ones for sale, it seems that there's just a total lack of sensible sized family caravans though.

Back in the 90s when I went with my parents, the 4 berth van with front dinette and rear bunks or double was the norm, now it seems they're just all slight variations of a fixed double.
We use the in laws bailey with this layout sometimes and it's just a bit rubbish for the size of it, for a family. So much wasted space and only one table.

I have essentially found the Sprite Musketeer, which looks like it was 2010-2012 only and this offers front plus rear dinettes. It's very similar in principle to my parents old Abbey Lancaster.

But I can't find anything else or anything a little newer.

Is there no other options that have 2 table spaces and don't weigh loads?

I don't really want a big thing, it's wasted space, harder for us to store and just baked life more difficult, puts the car too close to the limited plus won't fit on our drive when we need it to.

Suggestions welcome.

 

[otherclive]

Our last van was a 2012 Musketeer TD. We bought it as we both liked its space and flexibility in a 6.5m package. At 1300 kg including payload upgrade itv had sufficient payload fir us and granddaughter plus two dogs. Putting the front bed up at night was a doddle, and the bunks and small double or single at the rear gave different sleeping options. Great van. But I’m not aware of any later model alternatives.

 

[Mel]

Hi Sheaf. Welcome to the forum. The Sprite range is a good starting place but there may be other ranges to look at. Xplore ( Elddis) is worth a look. However a good place to start is the Caravanfinder website where you can do an advanced search by MPTLM Or layout.
Good luck
mel

 

[sheaf]

Hi Sheaf. Welcome to the forum. The Sprite range is a good starting place but there may be other ranges to look at. Xplore ( Elddis) is worth a look. However a good place to start is the Caravanfinder website where you can do an advanced search by MPTLM Or layout.
Good luck
mel

Hi, yes, I looked at the Xplore 304 the other day, I happened to pass a place selling one.

It's very compact and light, tbh I think with a decent enough awning the storage could work, however they're didn't seem anywhere to store anything.
The two front seats are compromised, only half a wardrobe and there's hardly any top cupboards.

The 434 looks good though, was hoping for bunks for the kids but then should be able to share a double until they're old enough to be kicked into an inner tent. But there doesn't seem many about that's for sure.

I'll take a look on the caravanfinder site. Thanks.


I just can't work out why there's not more of that type about though, I assumed they'd be a family default.

 

[GaryB]

As Clive mentioned, the Sprite range from Swift used to be a lightweight option with layouts for families as did the Bailey Discovery range. Lunar did the Venus range and Elddis the Xplore as competitors.

Try using the Caravan Finder web site, you can set your search criteria and it will help to guide you to suitable makes/models.

 

[Mr Plodd]

I am on my 4th (yes fourth!) Mazda 6, 2.2 diesel estate.
They can legally tow up to 1600 kg. My current caravan (Bailey Platinum 640) has an MTPLM of 1450 kg (so 150 kg below the cars max) and my car tows it with no effort at all. I have however fitted Grayston rear spring assisters (about £35 on ebay) as without them, due to the overhang, its easy to catch the jockey wheel on some French speed humps etc.
A previous caravan weighed in at over 1500 kg and that posed no issues either. So don't get too fixated on your self imposed 1300 kg limit, you can gona fair bit higher.

 

[sheaf]

I am on my 4th (yes fourth!) Mazda 6, 2.2 diesel estate.
They can legally tow up to 1600 kg. My current caravan (Bailey Platinum 640) has an MTPLM of 1450 kg (so 150 kg below the cars max) and my car tows it with no effort at all. I have however fitted Grayston rear spring assisters (about £35 on ebay) as without them, due to the overhang, its easy to catch the jockey wheel on some French speed humps etc.
A previous caravan weighed in at over 1500 kg and that posed no issues either. So don't get too fixated on your self imposed 1300 kg limit, you can gona fair bit higher.

My desire to stay low in weight is for a few reasons:

1. My father in law has the 163bhp version of the same car (mine being 182) with the same weight. Due to his caravan having a gross weight of close to 1500kg he's always super nervous about weight. Everyone who cuts it fine just seems to find the entire towing experience stressful and that's the opposite of the intention. I'd rather be below the limit if I can.
2. I'm basing it on the 85% caravan guidance, not the max possibly weight the vehicle can tow.
3. The Mazda is my wife's car. I have an Octavia vRS which is newer and may have to take over duties when we replace my wife's car in the future, hopefully for something smaller and better around town. I'd like to be within the limits of the vRS also, although they actually have similar kerweights depending n where you look.
4. I don't really want to have anything massive or heavy when it's not needed.

1300kg seems to be possible though, looking at the Xplore 434 that comes in at under 1200kg.

 

[otherclive]

I am on my 4th (yes fourth!) Mazda 6, 2.2 diesel estate.
They can legally tow up to 1600 kg. My current caravan (Bailey Platinum 640) has an MTPLM of 1450 kg (so 150 kg below the cars max) and my car tows it with no effort at all. I have however fitted Grayston rear spring assisters (about £35 on ebay) as without them, due to the overhang, its easy to catch the jockey wheel on some French speed humps etc.
A previous caravan weighed in at over 1500 kg and that posed no issues either. So don't get too fixated on your self imposed 1300 kg limit, you can gona fair bit higher.

I had a similar problem on a Superb estate with jockey wheel grounding coming off of the drive and on local speed bumps. I fitted MAD auxiliary springs which not only resolved the issue but actually improved the cars loaded ride characteristics. I’d also used MAD on a Saab9000 which also had a long overhang.

Standing by for incoming 😱

 

[Mr Plodd]

I had a similar problem on a Superb estate with jockey wheel grounding coming off of the drive and on local speed bumps. I fitted MAD auxiliary springs which not only resolved the issue but actually improved the cars loaded ride characteristics. I’d also used MAD on a Saab9000 which also had a long overhang.

Standing by for incoming

MAD's cost hundreds, Graystons about £35 and they, are unnoticeable when solo and do the same job.

Sheaf

I fully understand, and appreciate your reasoning, I was just sharing my experience of towing with the same vehicle and pointing out that you could go a little heavierr, to widen your caravan options if you wished.

 

[otherclive]

MAD's cost hundreds, Graystons about £35 and they, are unnoticeable when solo and do the same job.

Sheaf

I fully understand, and appreciate your reasoning, I was just sharing my experience of towing with the same vehicle and pointing out that you could go a little heavierr, to widen your caravan options if you wished.

The rubber coil spring inserts do not work in the same way as auxiliary spring assisters, and the former actually reduce spring compressive movement whereas the latter retain full spring compression albeit at a progressive spring rate. Also by their design the latter give a small amount of preload when fitted that gives a slight lift to the rear suspension even under no loading conditions. Grayston make inserts and auxiliary springs too. MAD only make auxiliary springs. But when I looked for my Superb fitment in 2017 Grayson did not make auxiliary springs for that model.. I think your comment wrt “ hundreds” is an exaggeration, or maybe things have changed since 2017.

 

[Beachball]

Hi Sheaf welcome to the forum what about a Xplore 526 it would be a good match for your car and there are some available look on Caravan Finder

 

[Mr Plodd]

The rubber coil spring inserts do not work in the same way as auxiliary spring assisters, and the former actually reduce spring compressive movement whereas the latter retain full spring compression albeit at a progressive spring rate. Also by their design the latter give a small amount of preload when fitted that gives a slight lift to the rear suspension even under no loading conditions. Grayston make inserts and auxiliary springs too. MAD only make auxiliary springs. But when I looked for my Superb fitment in 2017 Grayson did not make auxiliary springs for that model.. I think your comment wrt “ hundreds” is an exaggeration, or maybe things have changed since 2017.

Just checked, MAD springs are £176 (plus fitting) for my car. So probably £250 -£275 all in.

I agree with your comments about how they various options s achieve their aim 100%. I find the Graystons do the job for me. The ride height is indeed raised but only by about 5mm.
The ride when solo (the vast majority of my mileage) is not affected. But it is transformed when towing. (I have a long overhang so without Graystons I get a lot of pitching)

 

[Raywood]

We have had the same car, and frankly it is capable of towing far more, our caravan has an MTPLM of 1,410kg and it was happy with that. We had no problem with pitching and never grounded on a speed hump or anything else.
I would certainly look at the Bailey Phoenix which is comparable on size and weight. The choice is probably down more to personal preference than anything else.
For even lighter there is the Bailey Discovery or Eldiss Xplore but these are more basic and may not appeal.
Personally I would replace the Mazda with something similar when its time comes, we have moved on to a CX5 and to look for something smaller when the Octavia has to go. The Octavia is a good towcar at light weights, but I would want something with more kerb weight and boot capacity for a family of four. My feeling is that the load allowance of whatever you buy is likely to be too low to load everything in the caravan and the cars boot will be needed. Certainly we found that was the case. The other option might be to get an increased MTPLM but that might rule out the Octavia.

 

[sheaf]

We have had the same car, and frankly it is capable of towing far more, our caravan has an MTPLM of 1,410kg and it was happy with that. We had no problem with pitching and never grounded on a speed hump or anything else.
I would certainly look at the Bailey Phoenix which is comparable on size and weight. The choice is probably down more to personal preference than anything else.
For even lighter there is the Bailey Discovery or Eldiss Xplore but these are more basic and may not appeal.
Personally I would replace the Mazda with something similar when its time comes, we have moved on to a CX5 and to look for something smaller when the Octavia has to go. The Octavia is a good towcar at light weights, but I would want something with more kerb weight and boot capacity for a family of four. My feeling is that the load allowance of whatever you buy is likely to be too low to load everything in the caravan and the cars boot will be needed. Certainly we found that was the case. The other option might be to get an increased MTPLM but that might rule out the Octavia.

Strangely, I was looking up weights the other day and I feel like this is probably known, but it's a whole world of confusion.

If I look at manufacturer information/brochures it puts the Mazda at 200kg heavier than the Skoda. If I look at the V5s though it puts the Skoda as heavier, at 1445kg Vs 1430kg for the Mazda.

Yes, it's personal preference to a certain extent, but I don't want to have to worry about how much crap gets thrown in the caravan, I'd rather be safely under the limit if that makes sense.
Like I say, my FIL has the same car and a bigger Bailey Pegasus and towing just seems to be a constant concern in terms of weight, loading up the car as much as possible etc.

Yeah, i don't really want to be replacing cars when I don't have to and can't see me ever buying an SUV if I can help it tbh.

More entry level spec isn't an issue for us, I have no desire for anything fancy, it just needs to be functional, so the Xplore range looks pretty good. I am.coming from a tent, so anything is a step up, although I do think the bailey discovery range is a little too utility for the money.

I've just looked at the Bailey Phoenix but I think they're all too long and too new. I suspect our budget will be more like the 10-15k range and measuring up the driveway we have 6.5m of space to park it (to load and unload etc). We may be able to overcome this, but it would certainly be a compromise.

So far, the Xplore 434 seems to be a decent option though. There 526 looks great also, however it's actually the 6.9m length that will be more of a problem than the weight.

 

[GaryB]

Make sure you look at SHIPPING length (sometimes referred to as overall length) as some sellers refer to the length as the BODY length, excluding A-frame.

It’s also worth researching reliability and known faults with certain makes so you can ensure you don’t miss anything.

 

[Mel]

Would storage rather than driveway be an option? Would give you more choice.
Mel

 

[sheaf]

Would storage rather than driveway be an option? Would give you more choice.
Mel

Oh, I don't intend to store it it there permanently (although my wife would), however I do want to be able to get it on there for maintenance or for packing. The ideal is that we can go away for weekends more often, so I'd get it ready and packed on the drive on a Thursday night so we can get home from work on a Friday, hitch up and go.
I don't really want to be driving back and forth to storage trying to remember what I need and then delaying getting away, it'll make those trips non viable.

Likewise, if we're heading home I just want to go home and worry about clearing it the next day.

 

[Buckman]

Oh, I don't intend to store it it there permanently (although my wife would), however I do want to be able to get it on there for maintenance or for packing. The ideal is that we can go away for weekends more often, so I'd get it ready and packed on the drive on a Thursday night so we can get home from work on a Friday, hitch up and go.
I don't really want to be driving back and forth to storage trying to remember what I need and then delaying getting away, it'll make those trips non viable.

Likewise, if we're heading home I just want to go home and worry about clearing it the next day.

We have had our caravan in storage for the past 19 years and never had the issue of forgetting something behind as we plan ahead. Before leaving a site, we clean and tidy up the caravan so not need to do it when you get home. I have always had one thought at the back of my mind about storing at home is like waving a red flag to say you are not at home. Just a bit of probably unnecessary paranoia.

 

[Raywood]

We have had three 6's and all of them had weights pushing 1,600 kg. I would check the plate by the door to see what is on there as I feel the V5 figure is wrong.

Strangely, I was looking up weights the other day and I feel like this is probably known, but it's a whole world of confusion.

If I look at manufacturer information/brochures it puts the Mazda at 200kg heavier than the Skoda. If I look at the V5s though it puts the Skoda as heavier, at 1445kg Vs 1430kg for the Mazda.

Yes, it's personal preference to a certain extent, but I don't want to have to worry about how much crap gets thrown in the caravan, I'd rather be safely under the limit if that makes sense.
Like I say, my FIL has the same car and a bigger Bailey Pegasus and towing just seems to be a constant concern in terms of weight, loading up the car as much as possible etc.

Yeah, i don't really want to be replacing cars when I don't have to and can't see me ever buying an SUV if I can help it tbh.

More entry level spec isn't an issue for us, I have no desire for anything fancy, it just needs to be functional, so the Xplore range looks pretty good. I am.coming from a tent, so anything is a step up, although I do think the bailey discovery range is a little too utility for the money.

I've just looked at the Bailey Phoenix but I think they're all too long and too new. I suspect our budget will be more like the 10-15k range and measuring up the driveway we have 6.5m of space to park it (to load and unload etc). We may be able to overcome this, but it would certainly be a compromise.

So far, the Xplore 434 seems to be a decent option though. There 526 looks great also, however it's actually the 6.9m length that will be more of a problem than the weight.

 

[sheaf]

We have had three 6's and all of them had weights pushing 1,600 kg. I would check the plate by the door to see what is on there as I feel the V5 figure is wrong.

Yeah, if you look it up online, it varies between about 1530 and 1560kg kerbweight including driver I think, not sure if that includes fuel.

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The V5 definitely says 1430 though.

I'll try and find the plate later.
I think the V5 is wrong though and it's heavier, however the 1300kg limit for a caravan seems to fit nicely with the 4/5 berth under 6.5m anyway so may as well go lighter.