Angry aggresive people
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When I was nine, we moved to paradise (small country village in the glorious Kent countryside).
This is how I first got to know about Irish horse dealers/gypsies.
Briefly, half a mile from my house, a field of around 14 mares with foals, one stallion. All neglected, rounded up by dogs, foals taken at six months. No hay supplied, nobody checking the animal's welfare.
Well, each morning and each night, I'd cycle to the field and handle the mares, the stallion and the foals. My mum bought me a headcollar and grooming kit. Although she was terrified I'd be killed in a stampede. LOL!
Eventually, one day, a massive lorry arrived with two Irish horse dealers (the owners) and got the collies out in order to round up the horses which they were taking to market.
They asked what I was doing, so I told them. They went towards the gate with the dogs, in readiness to round them up. I said if you point to which ones you want, I'll bring them to you and load them in the lorry. They were amazed.
Anyway, long story short, I managed to persuade them (me being 9 but assertive even in those days), that they would get better prices if the horses were a bit tame, a bit better fed and a visit fromt the farrier wouldn't go amiss.
That was probably the start of my passion for animal welfare, in particular, horses and dogs.
We didn't have a phone so when they wanted to collect the horses, they'd come to my house to see if I was free. The horses had a slightly better quality of life.
The two dealers (brothers) even bought me a saddle and bridle, hard hat too as I said I'd like to ride the horses (some were broken, others wern't, I broke a few myself).
This might sound like a complete fantasy to some but all these years later my mum often brings it up and says, 'do you remember when you turned the Carter brothers around? and they used to come to the house to ask you to fetch the horses?'
They even gave me my own lovely grey mare when I was 15, I had to break her in myself though.
Maybe I shouldn't have posted all this but I just wanted to show most people have some good points.
Lisa
This is how I first got to know about Irish horse dealers/gypsies.
Briefly, half a mile from my house, a field of around 14 mares with foals, one stallion. All neglected, rounded up by dogs, foals taken at six months. No hay supplied, nobody checking the animal's welfare.
Well, each morning and each night, I'd cycle to the field and handle the mares, the stallion and the foals. My mum bought me a headcollar and grooming kit. Although she was terrified I'd be killed in a stampede. LOL!
Eventually, one day, a massive lorry arrived with two Irish horse dealers (the owners) and got the collies out in order to round up the horses which they were taking to market.
They asked what I was doing, so I told them. They went towards the gate with the dogs, in readiness to round them up. I said if you point to which ones you want, I'll bring them to you and load them in the lorry. They were amazed.
Anyway, long story short, I managed to persuade them (me being 9 but assertive even in those days), that they would get better prices if the horses were a bit tame, a bit better fed and a visit fromt the farrier wouldn't go amiss.
That was probably the start of my passion for animal welfare, in particular, horses and dogs.
We didn't have a phone so when they wanted to collect the horses, they'd come to my house to see if I was free. The horses had a slightly better quality of life.
The two dealers (brothers) even bought me a saddle and bridle, hard hat too as I said I'd like to ride the horses (some were broken, others wern't, I broke a few myself).
This might sound like a complete fantasy to some but all these years later my mum often brings it up and says, 'do you remember when you turned the Carter brothers around? and they used to come to the house to ask you to fetch the horses?'
They even gave me my own lovely grey mare when I was 15, I had to break her in myself though.
Maybe I shouldn't have posted all this but I just wanted to show most people have some good points.
Lisa
hi lisa, well done, you have given me some faith, you mention the carters??? is that the same family of travellers that used to run the fun fair, i have conections with vehicle mechanics that have worked for them and if i remember right they used to have a set of old gallopers,( fun fair ride), not horses, a smiley, why cant we show them on here, ??? which i believe they, the family still show, it s a small world and i have said some untoward things about travellers but the older generations were a bit differant, seems to me that these days they, not the proper tavellers take what they want and thats that.
Hi Perry
The Carters I'm referring to were two brothers from Ireland. One lived in Camber on a farm and the other lived in Robertsbridge, I believe on a farm. John Carter in Camber lived with his sister. They also kept sheep and bovine and that's why I couldn't understand why they couldn't give the horses some of the hay as they had plentiful supplies.
The horse trade was reasonably profitable in those days and the land the horses were kept on was MOD which I imagine was rent free to the Carters.
There was also another horse dealer who was Irish called Betty Smith, she used to come over with the brother from Robertsbridge, whether they were an item, I don't know.
Obviously, there were loads of gypsies in Kent in those days (particularly during the harvests) who worked on the farms to supplement their income. It wasn't uncommon to see an encampment by the side of the road, some horse drawn too.
There was a gypsy site near Camber and most of those were blond haired which was slightly unusual.
I'm sorry I don't know the Carters who used to run the fair (perhaps they might have been related though). Did they 'do' Lydd Club day? Because a travelling fair always attended that. Then a small permanant fair appeared in Dymchurch.
This is an extract from an email from a gypsy woman I keep in touch with who I met at Appleby horse fair a few years ago. She lives on a permanant site up North. This is her take on the bad press gypsies get:
'most of the people that are in the news and papers are not even gypsys they are just travellers mostly irish or some even gorjers (non-gypsys) but like the rest of the ethnic groups one does something wrong and the rest get the blame with them thats just the way it is unfortunately'
Lisa
The Carters I'm referring to were two brothers from Ireland. One lived in Camber on a farm and the other lived in Robertsbridge, I believe on a farm. John Carter in Camber lived with his sister. They also kept sheep and bovine and that's why I couldn't understand why they couldn't give the horses some of the hay as they had plentiful supplies.
The horse trade was reasonably profitable in those days and the land the horses were kept on was MOD which I imagine was rent free to the Carters.
There was also another horse dealer who was Irish called Betty Smith, she used to come over with the brother from Robertsbridge, whether they were an item, I don't know.
Obviously, there were loads of gypsies in Kent in those days (particularly during the harvests) who worked on the farms to supplement their income. It wasn't uncommon to see an encampment by the side of the road, some horse drawn too.
There was a gypsy site near Camber and most of those were blond haired which was slightly unusual.
I'm sorry I don't know the Carters who used to run the fair (perhaps they might have been related though). Did they 'do' Lydd Club day? Because a travelling fair always attended that. Then a small permanant fair appeared in Dymchurch.
This is an extract from an email from a gypsy woman I keep in touch with who I met at Appleby horse fair a few years ago. She lives on a permanant site up North. This is her take on the bad press gypsies get:
'most of the people that are in the news and papers are not even gypsys they are just travellers mostly irish or some even gorjers (non-gypsys) but like the rest of the ethnic groups one does something wrong and the rest get the blame with them thats just the way it is unfortunately'
Lisa
hiya, the carters i know of came from essex, but i know the family originated from just outside Galway, they use to attend the bannaslough horse fair so im sure there must be a connection there somewhere, ive worked in ireland thatching and have attended the horse fair regularly, its a week of bartering, fighting, drinking and gambling, its wild!!!!!, but like you said you cant tar them all with the same brush. im tying to think of another family of travellers who have struggled with there touring fair, it will come to me, and i guess in a funny sort of way we all, caravanners as such, enjoy the freedom and being able to travel around at will, im no gypsy but my attitude has changed to some of the rouges who have got them all a bad name, keep in touch i will update you on this. thanks perry
Hi Lisa & Perry
Many thanks for your replies. I must admit Lisa, with your very kind caring attitude to the injured fox, would you have chased it across a field on horseback the next day and then watched it being ripped apart? I just don't understand how you can so lovingly care for an injured animal, and then take part in a sport where they are ripped apart? I must be missing something, god knows what.
In answer to your question Perry, I am not as saintly as Lisa and cannot boast to have trained horses at such a young age which I think is amazing and very admirable. My extent for caring for our wildlife is being involved with a wildlife hospital which is fairly well known called Tiddywinkles, with fund raising and also taking in injured wildlife, (eleven deer, nineteen foxes, five badgers (not fun!) not to mention rabbits, hedgehogs (for which they are famous for rescuing). Apart from that I help at the National Canine Centre near where I live admitting animals that have been ill treated and brought in by the public and police. I have two rescue dogs, both ill treated which I took from the RSPCA who have been traumatised by their ill treatment and I raise funds and do the door to door collections begging for more money for them. I donate money to the Redwings sanctuary and have adopted a seal at Gweek in Cornwall, we also donate by standing order to the PDSA for folk who can't pay vet bills. We are currently collecting funds to help local vets cover their costs in the care of some of the horses which were rescued from a farm in my area which received national coverage in the press recently and the owner is still awaiting prosecution for such cruelty to horses which was horrific.
I think in our hearts we have much in common in our love of animals, so Lisa, I am so very confused that a person as so very kind as you can partake in a sport like foxhunting? Just how do you cope when the dogs catch the fox? I just don't understand, and am even more confused! Best wishes.
Many thanks for your replies. I must admit Lisa, with your very kind caring attitude to the injured fox, would you have chased it across a field on horseback the next day and then watched it being ripped apart? I just don't understand how you can so lovingly care for an injured animal, and then take part in a sport where they are ripped apart? I must be missing something, god knows what.
In answer to your question Perry, I am not as saintly as Lisa and cannot boast to have trained horses at such a young age which I think is amazing and very admirable. My extent for caring for our wildlife is being involved with a wildlife hospital which is fairly well known called Tiddywinkles, with fund raising and also taking in injured wildlife, (eleven deer, nineteen foxes, five badgers (not fun!) not to mention rabbits, hedgehogs (for which they are famous for rescuing). Apart from that I help at the National Canine Centre near where I live admitting animals that have been ill treated and brought in by the public and police. I have two rescue dogs, both ill treated which I took from the RSPCA who have been traumatised by their ill treatment and I raise funds and do the door to door collections begging for more money for them. I donate money to the Redwings sanctuary and have adopted a seal at Gweek in Cornwall, we also donate by standing order to the PDSA for folk who can't pay vet bills. We are currently collecting funds to help local vets cover their costs in the care of some of the horses which were rescued from a farm in my area which received national coverage in the press recently and the owner is still awaiting prosecution for such cruelty to horses which was horrific.
I think in our hearts we have much in common in our love of animals, so Lisa, I am so very confused that a person as so very kind as you can partake in a sport like foxhunting? Just how do you cope when the dogs catch the fox? I just don't understand, and am even more confused! Best wishes.
hi lorraine, we must live fairly close to one another, i know st tiggywinkles well in haddenham, i have taken injured animals there myself, my partner and i have 2 rescued dogs, one a greyhound and a german shepherd cross, both very adorable,
i havent had such experience of animals as you and lisa but have studied enviromental conservation and have an undergraduate certificate in countryside conservation and city & guilds in enviromental conservation, landscapes and eco systems, i have always had animals at home and worked outside in the countryside and even though it was some time ago when i studied i still have a very keen interest in the natural world and enviroment,
by the way, keep a good eye on your caravan we have had so many, five in fact stolen over the last 4 weeks in our area so be vigilant, best regards perry
i havent had such experience of animals as you and lisa but have studied enviromental conservation and have an undergraduate certificate in countryside conservation and city & guilds in enviromental conservation, landscapes and eco systems, i have always had animals at home and worked outside in the countryside and even though it was some time ago when i studied i still have a very keen interest in the natural world and enviroment,
by the way, keep a good eye on your caravan we have had so many, five in fact stolen over the last 4 weeks in our area so be vigilant, best regards perry
No summer would be complete for many around London and the southeast without a visit to or a sight of the spectacle of "Carter's Steam Fair".
In the distant past I beleive it was just known as Carter's or may be John Carter's Fair. Maidenhead Berkshire based in the winter months, the old lorry's they still use will bring back child hood memories for those of us who are a little older. Their older rides and vehicles have been used by TV and film companies so many will have seen Carter's fair.
www.carterssteamfair.co.uk
In the distant past I beleive it was just known as Carter's or may be John Carter's Fair. Maidenhead Berkshire based in the winter months, the old lorry's they still use will bring back child hood memories for those of us who are a little older. Their older rides and vehicles have been used by TV and film companies so many will have seen Carter's fair.
www.carterssteamfair.co.uk
Perry
Many thanks for the warning regarding stolen caravans. We are having the same problem here, some of the owners driveways are quite long and out of sight of the road so it gives lots of coverage for thieves to take the caravans. Your work/qualifications sound brilliant, I don't have any environmental qualifications at all it must be really interesting to study in this field (excuse the pun!) and it must open your eyes from a completely different perspective to the average person. Good to hear you also have rescue dogs, they give so much back don't they? I wish more people would take in a rescue dog rather than just buy a pedigree pup, or support the puppy farming business. I am visiting the Ilfracombe NCD soon, when we are there with the caravan, I wish I could bring them all home!
Many thanks for the warning regarding stolen caravans. We are having the same problem here, some of the owners driveways are quite long and out of sight of the road so it gives lots of coverage for thieves to take the caravans. Your work/qualifications sound brilliant, I don't have any environmental qualifications at all it must be really interesting to study in this field (excuse the pun!) and it must open your eyes from a completely different perspective to the average person. Good to hear you also have rescue dogs, they give so much back don't they? I wish more people would take in a rescue dog rather than just buy a pedigree pup, or support the puppy farming business. I am visiting the Ilfracombe NCD soon, when we are there with the caravan, I wish I could bring them all home!
hi lorraine, yes it is bad news we had the van stolen and its getting compounded with the lack of support from our insurance company, the van was talen 50yds from our house, secured behind two padlocked gates, it was alarmed, hitchlocked and wheelclamped, we had only had the van 3 months and been away once, it took us ages to find the right one and was full of our personel possesions for a trip away, it was stolen the thursday before the bank holiday,21/5/09 (conveniant because a lot of vans would be on the road!!!) between the hours of 3am and 5-30am. the police were informed but it took 6 hrs for them to come out, the van was long gone by then. jay and i have both been very upset and now im very angry, its the most awfull experience that some scum can come and just take whats yours. even though its just over three weeks ago i still havent had a good nites sleep since it happened and you go over and over in your mind wondering where it could be, did i lock it, did i set the alarm, i know i did all these things but its still in yr mind.
the caravan was a compass magnum 544 2007 model, white, we have the cris number:SGES000EX7CRA0277.
lets hope the police catch these theives but they have said they belive it to be a proffesional gang stealing to order and not a lot of vans are recovered. :-( perry
the caravan was a compass magnum 544 2007 model, white, we have the cris number:SGES000EX7CRA0277.
lets hope the police catch these theives but they have said they belive it to be a proffesional gang stealing to order and not a lot of vans are recovered. :-( perry
Well well, aint you a saint. Perhaps the recovered fox lived to tell the tale....maybe not. Foxhunting should be banned, without question or discussion, it is barbaric, or perhaps we should revert to earlier times when only the gentry / monied survived, the plebs, well, let them work til they drop. When I see a hunt, apart from making me want to vomit, I'd love to stick a couple og bangers up their backsides, and check out their horsemanship, still it must be very brave of you to risk your health etc in pursuit of that dangerous animal (that cannot hit back at you...more's the pity)..................Here's a final question.
What would you do if you were driving along a road at 4.30am one freezing cold winter's morning and in front of you, in the middle of the road, lay an unconcious fox?
This is what I did.
Stopped the car
Investigated the fox to see if there were any obvious injuries, particularly broken limbs/severe bleeding/check whether it was still breathing
Took off my long socks, made a makeshift muzzle
Took off my jacket
Carefully lifted the fox, wrapped it in my jacket, placed the muzzle over its nose (to prevent injury to me)
Put it in the back of my car
Turned down the heating slightly until it became accoustomed to the temperature
Drove to a phone box (no mobiles in those days)
Phoned the animal and accident rescue unit
Waited an hour for them to meet me
They thanked me and took away the fox (which was starting to come round).
Phoned me 24 hours later to clarify the exact location to where I found it
It was released 48 hours later, having sustained concussion due to being hit by a vehicle.
So we're not all bad. (Smiley icon thingy).
Lisa
Hi,
Not OT, just going way back in the mail list. ref the comment about the young/old never having had it so good/bad.
We are in the middle of a credit crunch. We are ALL helping the banks to recover. But when the crisis is over and the banks start to lend again, will us wrinklies get a look in?
Our household income is about
Not OT, just going way back in the mail list. ref the comment about the young/old never having had it so good/bad.
We are in the middle of a credit crunch. We are ALL helping the banks to recover. But when the crisis is over and the banks start to lend again, will us wrinklies get a look in?
Our household income is about
Perry
Sorry to here about you loss of your caravan. Let us hope the police find the people that stole it. Mind you i have been watching some of these Police programs on TV when they catch the sods the courts seem to let them of with very light sentances.
I was watching last night car taken by joy rider he had no licence etc. When it went to court given 2 year driving ban. What was the point of that he did not have a bl**** licence to Ban there something very very rong with our legal system.
Sorry to here about you loss of your caravan. Let us hope the police find the people that stole it. Mind you i have been watching some of these Police programs on TV when they catch the sods the courts seem to let them of with very light sentances.
I was watching last night car taken by joy rider he had no licence etc. When it went to court given 2 year driving ban. What was the point of that he did not have a bl**** licence to Ban there something very very rong with our legal system.
Hi,
If you ban somebody who hasn't got a licence, it doesn't affect them ..... until they apply for a licence. They also (should) get a bigger penalty if caught driving whilst disqualified. When I was a lad, it meant six months pleasuring her majesty. The Beaks tended to take it personally, if you ignored them.
602
If you ban somebody who hasn't got a licence, it doesn't affect them ..... until they apply for a licence. They also (should) get a bigger penalty if caught driving whilst disqualified. When I was a lad, it meant six months pleasuring her majesty. The Beaks tended to take it personally, if you ignored them.
602
Hi,
Is it the Isle of Man where anybody can own a dog, but they must have a licence to own a *****.
Somebody mentioned putting "the cat amonst the pidgeons". Hmmmm .... what about the ancient sport of digging a hole, adding some rats ....then throw in a Jack Russel? You don't even need a horse. Me? I gave up angling about 55 years ago. Not sure if I was being kind to dumb animals, or had I discovered girls?
602
Is it the Isle of Man where anybody can own a dog, but they must have a licence to own a *****.
Somebody mentioned putting "the cat amonst the pidgeons". Hmmmm .... what about the ancient sport of digging a hole, adding some rats ....then throw in a Jack Russel? You don't even need a horse. Me? I gave up angling about 55 years ago. Not sure if I was being kind to dumb animals, or had I discovered girls?
602
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