Anti caravanners having a go

[izzeybear1]

A short while ago I was travelling back from Lincolnshire and listening to Jeremy Vine. The subject matter was carvans on the road. It was the usual rubbish, people moaning about being held up etc. etc. There were two contributors that were laughable.
The first was a cyclist. His whinge was that you did not need a licence, insurance or a test to tow a caravan and he had been involved in a few incidents with caravans. My thoughts are he was a 'pot calling the kettle black'. When cyclists undergo a test, have insurance and their bikes serviced plus when they stop ignoring the rules of the road I will listen to their argument.
The second was a person who claimed he had been stuck behind a slow moving caravan for FOUR hours.I could not believe that he was allowed to air such rubbish. If you are unable to overtake a vehicle within four hours then should you be driving. I like most responsible caravanners have always considered other road users and in nearly 50 years of towing have never been involved in an 'incident'.
How often do you encounter the musto's. Their thought is 'it's a caravan I must overtake it'. Having done so often in an unsafe manner you then catch up with them a short while later
If people wish to moan please make them have a sensible argument.

 

[Raywood]

I cannot see a cyclist being involved in more than one accident with a caravan, the odds are far too great and if you followed a caravan for four hours then even at 30 mph you have done over 100 miles and surely you could overtake in that distance. Others must have or there would have been a queue miles long. What these people needed was questions that would show up the inaccuracies of their arguments and it should have been pointed out if it was not that you do now need to take a test got combinations over 3.5 tonnes.
It does not sound to have been a balanced program and perhaps a few caravanners should have rung in or if they did then the BBC missed being fair if they did not allow them air time.

 

[Parksy]

A short while ago I was travelling back from Lincolnshire and listening to Jeremy Vine. The subject matter was carvans on the road. It was the usual rubbish, people moaning about being held up etc. etc. There were two contributors that were laughable.
The first was a cyclist. His whinge was that you did not need a licence, insurance or a test to tow a caravan and he had been involved in a few incidents with caravans. My thoughts are he was a 'pot calling the kettle black'. When cyclists undergo a test, have insurance and their bikes serviced plus when they stop ignoring the rules of the road I will listen to their argument.
The second was a person who claimed he had been stuck behind a slow moving caravan for FOUR hours.I could not believe that he was allowed to air such rubbish. If you are unable to overtake a vehicle within four hours then should you be driving. I like most responsible caravanners have always considered other road users and in nearly 50 years of towing have never been involved in an 'incident'.
How often do you encounter the musto's. Their thought is 'it's a caravan I must overtake it'. Having done so often in an unsafe manner you then catch up with them a short while later
If people wish to moan please make them have a sensible argument.

I'm glad that you heard the programme Izzey, I phoned up and was chosen to speak on that programme and there's another topic about anti-caravanners and Ray Mears televised comments Here
I'd planned to point out that we contribute over £6 billion every year to the British economy and to point out that tourers use very few resources requiring energy and therefore have a much lower carbon footprint than an airline passenger flying off on holiday but of course any entertainment programme invariably highlights the bizzare and the extreme.
I was called upon instead to reply to the raving idiot on a bike who claimed to have been knocked off three times (one of the times was allegedly by a caravan that turned out to be stolen which rules out normal tourer owners)
It had occured to me to go on the attack because as you say, cyclists take no test of competency or pay no road tax or insurance but instead I decided to follow the brilliant example set earlier by PCv contributing writer Martin Roberts who had remained calm, friendly and completely unruffled when confronted on the programme by a similar member of the foaming at the mouth 'I Own The Road' brigade.
I easilly rebuffed the cyclists statememnt about caravanners not taking any test because many who passed their driving test after 1997 do take a B+E category towing test and in spite of the rent a gob raving away in the background also stated that touring caravan owners were statstically safer drivers and likely to be involved in fewer road traffic incidents that the national average.
Jeremy Vine tried to switch the conversation by complaining about towing mirrors so I calmly pointed out that in most cases these mirrors are a legal requirement and they are no more dangerous to other road users than lorry or bus mirrors.
Unfortunately that's all the time that I was allowed but at least I tried to stay calm and reasonable because if idiots like the accident prone cyclist was persuaded by my replies to take up caravanning and pitched next to me I'd seriously consider giving up!

 

[pensioner]

Parksy you have my greatest respect for going on that show,,that man will twist and manoeuvre any topic to suit himself regardless of the rights or wrongs. Seems to me he's after sensationalism to try to generate reaction, he's not actually bothered about the accuracy of the information spouted by those who call in.

 

[JoannaLesley]

If find it curious that no one ever seems to complain about being held up behind a horse box,. In my experience these are much more likely to be at the head of a queue than a caravan. And I do realise (before everyone jumps on me) that horses have to be handled and transported very carefully. It's just that a car/horsebox combination could move over or make use of a lay by to let the queue go past in the same way as a caravan combo.

Jo

 

[bertieboy1]

Not sure about being stuck behind a caravan for fours when I've been stuck in front
of a caravan longer than that !

 

[ProfJohnL]

Not sure about being stuck behind a caravan for fours when I've been stuck in front
of a caravan longer than that !

Isn't it amazing how that van manages to keep up with you!

 

[carper2]

I wonder how many motorist know about the speed limits we have to abide by.

Les

 

[Parksy]

I wonder how many motorist know about the speed limits we have to abide by.
Les

I sometimes wonder how many caravanners know about the speed limits we have to abide by Les.
There are lots of anecdotal comments on this and other forums about vehicles towing caravans illegally in the outside lane of motorways passingother vehicles at over 70mph.

 

[Keefanmaxx]

As one that is relatively new to caravanning and the joys of towing one, I spent may hours driving 'wagon and drag' on my heavy goods licence and find some peoples rants frustrating and unfounded.
While I may be able to tow my van at 60mph legally, why should I? It's a huge investment and I like to get to my destination in one piece and it's not like you can't see it behind the car .... (for the cyclists reference, it's the big boxy looking thing!) I don't hear many moaning about being stuck behind a large goods vehicle that's limited to 40 mph max on a single carriageway road and if someone wants to sit behind a caravan for four hours so they can complain, more fool them!
:cheer:

 

[colin-yorkshire]

I too heard the program. and thought both Parksy and Martin did a very good job of answering the rambling of the two "richard heads" Jeremy [or should I say his researchers] lined up to make the comments of Ray Mears sound reasonable, as this was what the discussion was about, dont forget Jeremy is a skilled member of the muggers club. [political journalist] and as such any content of his program should be taken with a very large pinch of salt.

as for the Dick's, the less comment made about these idiots the better except to say that anyone who follows a caravan for 4hours says more about their driving than the van that was in front. as for the cyclist. when they have to legally wear helmets like bikers have 3rd party and personal insurance and take a test of competancy before trying throw themselves under a van by hitching a tow via the grab handle [seen this several times] the better.

if you really want to see some sparks fly, [no pun intended Steve] wait until Ray is on a program where caravanners can stitch him up, about his comments. guess he would rather see a line of tarpaulins held up with string than a row of nice clean white vans. curious he was not on the show. or did he just decline for fear of facing up to our Parksy.

 

[ProfJohnL]

As one that is relatively new to caravanning and the joys of towing one, I spent may hours driving 'wagon and drag' on my heavy goods licence and find some peoples rants frustrating and unfounded.
While I may be able to tow my van at 60mph legally, why should I? ...............:

Hi,
I may teaching Granny to suck eggs here, but it is part of the current driving test where the assessor monitors your progress. If you are slow to accelerate up to speed, or drive significantly below the prevailing speed limit without good reason you will be penalised for failing to making good progress.

We all have to share the roads and it is unreasonable to delay other drivers by driving unecesarily slowly.
Other road users seem to build frustration when held up and it might encourage them to try an unsafe maneuver.

We must of course observe our speed limits and if necessary reduce our speed further if conditions dictate it.

 

[Parksy]

As an ex HGV class 1 driver I remember that the HGV instructors made a point of insisting that we made 'normal progress' when under instruction before passing the HGV driving test.
One pearl of wisdom that I remember was the instructor asking what the speed limit was for the stretch of road we were travelling on.
If the limit was 40 mph and I was doing 35mph but replied correctly '40mph' the instructor immediately asked why we were not doing 40.
Having said that, on narrow roads with series of bends the instructor would advise that we could only drive in accordance with what we could see, so progress was much slower regardless of the speed limit.

 

[GrahamE]

As an ex HGV class 1 driver I remember that the HGV instructors made a point of insisting that we made 'normal progress' when under instruction before passing the HGV driving test.
One pearl of wisdom that I remember was the instructor asking what the speed limit was for the stretch of road we were travelling on.
If the limit was 40 mph and I was doing 35mph but replied correctly '40mph' the instructor immediately asked why we were not doing 40.
Having said that, on narrow roads with series of bends the instructor would advise that we could only drive in accordance with what we could see, so progress was much slower regardless of the speed limit.

I took my class 1 nearly 25 years ago, the phrases "make it sound like your driving a truck, make the other traffic do what you want them to do, take as much time and room as you need" are all out the window. We are now in a time of "green" driving, treat your self as the enemy on the road even if an accident is someone else's fault you are still possibly to blame as you are the professional driver. Slow down in high gear with little use of the brakes "basically crawl up to junctions or lights" The way we are told to drive now differs considerably to that of yesteryear. As for the Radio presenter "sensationalism" comes to mind, Remember the public beheading of an Englishman in the far East he was reporting on, well I thought Mr J. V was going to have Kittens he got that excited. As for the 4 hr stint behind a caravan what road was that on ? personally i think a lot of hurry up attitude to anything is down to the Click to buy it now expect it delivered tomorrow world we live in.

 

[Parksy]

I took my class 1 nearly 25 years ago, the phrases "make it sound like your driving a truck, make the other traffic do what you want them to do, take as much time and room as you need" are all out the window. We are now in a time of "green" driving, treat your self as the enemy on the road even if an accident is someone else's fault you are still possibly to blame as you are the professional driver. Slow down in high gear with little use of the brakes "basically crawl up to junctions or lights" The way we are told to drive now differs considerably to that of yesteryear. As for the Radio presenter "sensationalism" comes to mind, Remember the public beheading of an Englishman in the far East he was reporting on, well I thought Mr J. V was going to have Kittens he got that excited. As for the 4 hr stint behind a caravan what road was that on ? personally i think a lot of hurry up attitude to anything is down to the Click to buy it now expect it delivered tomorrow world we live in.

I became a driver for a company that often carried oiled steel bright bar so heavy braking and jerky driving were guaranteed to induce squeaky bum time
Defensive driving was the safest approach and I continue to employ defensive driving and observation techniques learned back then to this day whether I'm towing or not.
From what I've seen the enjoyment has all gone from driving trucks, I wouldn't fancy it nowadays.

 

[Keefanmaxx]

As one that is relatively new to caravanning and the joys of towing one, I spent may hours driving 'wagon and drag' on my heavy goods licence and find some peoples rants frustrating and unfounded.
While I may be able to tow my van at 60mph legally, why should I? ...............:

Hi,
I may teaching Granny to suck eggs here, but it is part of the current driving test where the assessor monitors your progress. If you are slow to accelerate up to speed, or drive significantly below the prevailing speed limit without good reason you will be penalised for failing to making good progress.

We all have to share the roads and it is unreasonable to delay other drivers by driving unecesarily slowly.
Other road users seem to build frustration when held up and it might encourage them to try an unsafe maneuver.

We must of course observe our speed limits and if necessary reduce our speed further if conditions dictate it.

Crikey, I hope I don't sound like I just crawl along!!
I do accelerate and make progress, but don't feel the need to drive everywhere at top speed especially when towing as I don't fancy being overtaken by my van!

:cheer:

 

[JonnyG]

As annoying as it all is, cyclists moan about everybody and everybody moans about cyclists, hgv drivers, bus drivers, bikers, bmw drivers and yes caravanners. too. there will always be a group of people moaning about another group with generalised sweeping statements.

 

[seth1]

I quite like listening to J vine and some stuff is interesting but this tripe is just for air time.Three things that are ten times worse than caravans,
1,Horses, two abreast and riders expect people to shut engines off when passing.

2,Cyclists,ten abreast who then get defensive when advised to ride in single file.

3,Hgv,s on motorways side by side for miles on end stuck at 56mph.It even boils my blood and i run the god damn things

 

[extrucker]

I took my class 1 nearly 25 years ago, the phrases "make it sound like your driving a truck, make the other traffic do what you want them to do, take as much time and room as you need" are all out the window. We are now in a time of "green" driving, treat your self as the enemy on the road even if an accident is someone else's fault you are still possibly to blame as you are the professional driver. Slow down in high gear with little use of the brakes "basically crawl up to junctions or lights" The way we are told to drive now differs considerably to that of yesteryear. As for the Radio presenter "sensationalism" comes to mind, Remember the public beheading of an Englishman in the far East he was reporting on, well I thought Mr J. V was going to have Kittens he got that excited. As for the 4 hr stint behind a caravan what road was that on ? personally i think a lot of hurry up attitude to anything is down to the Click to buy it now expect it delivered tomorrow world we live in.

I became a driver for a company that often carried oiled steel bright bar so heavy braking and jerky driving were guaranteed tgo induce squeaky bum time
Defensive driving was the safest approach and I continue to employ defensive driving and observation techniques learned back then to this day whether I'm towing or not.
From what I've seen the enjoyment has all gone from driving trucks, I wouldn't fancy it nowadays.

I wish that when I was driving HGVS I had the lorries that they have now. They don't even have a clutch pedal now do they. O what a joy that would have been driving in London, instead of the crash boxes we had, lol.

 

[GrahamE]

From what I've seen the enjoyment has all gone from driving trucks, I wouldn't fancy it nowadays.[/quote] I wish that when I was driving HGVS I had the lorries that they have now. They don't even have a clutch pedal now do they. O what a joy that would have been driving in London, instead of the crash boxes we had, lol.[/quote]

I only drive a dustcart now but it does have the Auto 3 button selector, a manual box is no good for my work. but I loved the 16 speed in my Daf super space when I was over the water, Eaton twin split was good once you mastered it.

 

[extrucker]

I bluffed my way into a driving job and the first lorry they gave me was an LAD Dodge with a button on the gear stick. By the end of the day, I had mastered it after going into neutral numerous times.lol

 

[seth1]

Maybe so,but you also wouldnt like the repair bills we have today either.I can remember not to long ago when people slated the Cummins-Fuller-rockwell combo,but not now it would seem,people wish Foden,ERF, and Seddon atki were still alive as we all do.This latest crop has really upset the bank manager when an average cost is 25k to replace an engine.Twin splitter,what a gearbox,the best of the best,we used to have pure fun with them at the traffic lights,hot hatches we used to eat them on road tests.525 14 liter,start off in 1st gear middle range,preselect top range,didnt even let of on the throttle,stick out of gear.stick back in gear and away she went.ha ha lol.Now we have autoboxs if your lucky you might get the occasional kickdown.

 

[extrucker]

I was looking at a new actros on YouTube, I would have loved one of those compared to anything I have driven. Too old now, unless I win the lotto and buy one just to play with. Lol. Ray.

 

[izzeybear1]

You have all had it easy
What about the Bedford SAG Tractor unit with Queen Mary trailer. 6cyl 300cu in petrol engine, vacuum operated two speed axle, NO power steering.
Them were the days

 

[extrucker]

The s type I drove years ago, had a synchro box was quite easy to drive. The only downside was the lack of indecaters, lol. Much better than a two stroke foden with David brown box. Try driving that all day around London. Ray.