Me too. Alutech obviously doesn't prevent leaks around window/roof seals, so I'd actually have expected more.RAY said:
The tightening at the third service has been there since launch. It was always described by Bailey as a precautionRogerL said:
This has been done to death on those other forums you say you watch - it has always been free. There are legal reasons why it has to be presented as 6+4, but the +4 has always been included free of charge (with paperwork given to the first owner confirming it is included in the sale price of the caravan), and is transferrable to future owners (unlike some other caravan manufacturers).RogerL said:
If one takes into perspective caravan forums to evaluate a product then one has to take in other considerations. If fro example you look at the 5 most common forums and added up the numbers that frequent the forums it is probably on average over a year a figure well below 500 people a month. Of those 500 people how many own a Alu-Tech Bailey? Another way to look at it is what is the average number of people on this forum per day over a year. Probably less than 20 a day. Out of the total visitors in the year, how many own a Alu-tech caravan.
If a forum has 50 actvie users and of those active users, 10 own Alu tech caravans and out of the 10, 3 have a problem that means 30% have an issue with the Alu-tech caravan. This applies to any brand not just Bailey which makes it difficult to judge what is good and what is bad.
None of us will know the percentage of Alu-tech caravans sold that have developed leaks. What we do know is that Bailey in its advertising gave the impression that the Alu-tech body will resolve all damp issues. The extra charge for tightening the nuts after 3 years was nto mentioned initially. I would say that perhaps their advertising may have been slightly misleading.
We liked the pre 2000 Baileys as they were well built and solid, but not the new ones. We have a Lunar caravan and while some owners have problems others don't . On the other hand some people will try and fix it themselves or not bother complaining about an issue as they think it is the norm. Lastly only a small minority of all caravan owners join a caravan forum.
If a forum has 50 actvie users and of those active users, 10 own Alu tech caravans and out of the 10, 3 have a problem that means 30% have an issue with the Alu-tech caravan. This applies to any brand not just Bailey which makes it difficult to judge what is good and what is bad.
None of us will know the percentage of Alu-tech caravans sold that have developed leaks. What we do know is that Bailey in its advertising gave the impression that the Alu-tech body will resolve all damp issues. The extra charge for tightening the nuts after 3 years was nto mentioned initially. I would say that perhaps their advertising may have been slightly misleading.
We liked the pre 2000 Baileys as they were well built and solid, but not the new ones. We have a Lunar caravan and while some owners have problems others don't . On the other hand some people will try and fix it themselves or not bother complaining about an issue as they think it is the norm. Lastly only a small minority of all caravan owners join a caravan forum.
Fed up now. The last 4 years of the warranty are FREE and always have been. It's not as a special offer or a dealer deal it is free from Bailey. It's not charged for, as is stated on their site in another area and on my documentation. Of course they could charge in the future for new purchasers but as of today if you check with them it's FREE. Quate from their web site and brochure *Terms and conditions apply. 10-Year integrity guarantee comprises
of 6 years standard warranty cover and 4 years extended warranty
cover supplied free of charge.
of 6 years standard warranty cover and 4 years extended warranty
cover supplied free of charge.
No idea how many own Alu-tech vans but the Caravan talk forum has 1157 pages of members at 20 per page = over 22,000 members and over 3000 topics in the Bailey section alone with over 33,000 replies. Which is why I chose it to pose the question in the first place.
Every caravan maker seems to turn out a real shocker from time to time. http://www.sundaysun.co.uk/news/mr-justice-consumer-advice/2011/11/06/couple-s-caravan-was-a-washout-79310-29727184/TonyG said:
Its always sad when someone's caravan develops a leak (I know, I've been there). But Alutech seems to be better than old construction techniques so far.
Don't forget that people often join a forum (only) when they have a problem. So the proportion of people on a forum with a problem aren't a reliable indicator to the number of people in the outside world with the problem. I'd expect the proportion on a forum to be higher than the outside world.
eg. If 1000 people buy a product, and it has a 2% failure rate, that would be 20 unhappy people.
If 5% of the happy people join a forum, but 15% of the unhappy people, the failure rate would seem to be around 6%
eg. If 1000 people buy a product, and it has a 2% failure rate, that would be 20 unhappy people.
If 5% of the happy people join a forum, but 15% of the unhappy people, the failure rate would seem to be around 6%
john l sorry i thought it was 10 years /6 years as most 4 years extra but not at the cover off the 6 years in fact the 4 years is worth less this gives you the 10 year cover at no extra cost.as told to me buy bailey dealer hense i did not buy one.
From the way the thread has run I get the distinct impression that several contributors do not understand the important differences between your statutory rights under SoGA and the manufacturers guarantees.
Whilst they may have superficial similarities in the way they seem to work, and some of the outcomes, the basis of their operations is very different, as are the criteria for obtaining a remedy for faulty goods.
The OP was bemoaning the fact that his only option on his 12 month old caravan was a repair, the inference being he would have liked some other option such as refund or total replacement. Both of these are only available with your statutory rights under the sale Of goods act 1979.
The options included in most caravan manufacturers guarantees are usually limited. In most cases a repair is all they will normally sanction. It is only in very rare cases they will even consider a replacement.
My replies have been based answering the OP's concerns which were related to SoGA.
Manufactures Guarantees and extended guarantees (Insurance Policies) are entirely different and usually have more stringent criteria for compliance.
Whilst they may have superficial similarities in the way they seem to work, and some of the outcomes, the basis of their operations is very different, as are the criteria for obtaining a remedy for faulty goods.
The OP was bemoaning the fact that his only option on his 12 month old caravan was a repair, the inference being he would have liked some other option such as refund or total replacement. Both of these are only available with your statutory rights under the sale Of goods act 1979.
The options included in most caravan manufacturers guarantees are usually limited. In most cases a repair is all they will normally sanction. It is only in very rare cases they will even consider a replacement.
My replies have been based answering the OP's concerns which were related to SoGA.
Manufactures Guarantees and extended guarantees (Insurance Policies) are entirely different and usually have more stringent criteria for compliance.
However a significant number have never posted at all and a significant number have only ever posted 5 or less times.alan stanley said:
Our Roger L seems to have a lot of "knowledge" on Alu-Tech and I note his comments on CT.
However it is noteworthy that Reads, one of our Dealers of the Year have never experienced a failure. I have spoken to my two Dealers who hand on heart confirm they are unaware of such issues.
Maybe Alan's was a friday afternoon job and perhaps some mastic was missing? No doubt he will let us all know the cause in due course.
. To say this is a "recurrent " problem just doesn't stack up from the information available on the internet.
Sadly it seems all manufacturers produce the odd rogue model but imo the general quality of water tightness has improved over the years . Yes , it could be better but I do not think for one minute there is a major catastrophy out there.
What has the above got to do with the number of people on a forum annually? Just because they joined does not mean that they contribute regularly. The CT only has about 30 people that are regulars and the figure does not seem to vary that much. In addition, there may be over 3000 topics but over how many years. If over 10 years that is 300 posts a year. Hardly mind boggling. These sort of figures is what makes any criticism of the Alu-tech hardly valid as the criticism would be based on wildly inaccurate figures. Besides my scenario referred to any brand not just one.alan stanley said:
Prof John L said:
It would be interesting to see if someone did claim after the 6 years and Bailey rejected it. I think that Bailey have made a safe bet on the 10 year ingress warranty knowing full well that very few people keep a caravan for 10 years. Secondly very few people bother with transferring a warranty. Basically the warranty is a marketing devcei that any manufacturer could offer knowing that it is very unlikely it will be taken up.
Hello Surfer,
SoGA only applies between the CUSTOMER and the SELLER, thus it has nothing to do with manuafcture unless the manufacture sold directly to the retail customer.
The manufacturerers guarantee is an entirely differnt issue, and they can set out what ever terms they wish. What they can't do is undermine SoGA in any way, or force a customer to use the manufactures guarantee instead of SoGA.
SoGA only applies between the CUSTOMER and the SELLER, thus it has nothing to do with manuafcture unless the manufacture sold directly to the retail customer.
The manufacturerers guarantee is an entirely differnt issue, and they can set out what ever terms they wish. What they can't do is undermine SoGA in any way, or force a customer to use the manufactures guarantee instead of SoGA.
You're quite right in your statements about SoGA - but in the real world, most of the time people take action under the terms of the manufacturers' warranty - only in a handful of cases do people take action under SoGA and even then only if their attempt to use the manufacturer's warranty has failed.Prof John L said:
Obviosly a significant number have not posted at all. but most presumably read something. Some 5000 members have made posts of 5 or more, so that was and is the most representative number I could find.
It is not my van that has any leaks and I have never claimed it has. I am very happy with both the Bailey and the Swift, although it is fair to say the Swift would have been another Alu-Tech if the swift price had not been £4000 cheaper.
My question was posted for the general discussion and to see what the results were. It was an an attempt to obtain facts, i.e.not the 'opinion' - 'prediction' - 'man in a pub' comments that were and are still being bandied about by some people, often misrepresented as fact.
As we keep our vans a long time, if I am still going in 10 years time I'll know if we made the right decision. So far back to back the Bailey wins on design ergonomics and the feeling of solidarity. 'other opinions are available'
It is not my van that has any leaks and I have never claimed it has. I am very happy with both the Bailey and the Swift, although it is fair to say the Swift would have been another Alu-Tech if the swift price had not been £4000 cheaper.
My question was posted for the general discussion and to see what the results were. It was an an attempt to obtain facts, i.e.not the 'opinion' - 'prediction' - 'man in a pub' comments that were and are still being bandied about by some people, often misrepresented as fact.
As we keep our vans a long time, if I am still going in 10 years time I'll know if we made the right decision. So far back to back the Bailey wins on design ergonomics and the feeling of solidarity. 'other opinions are available'
Surfer said:
I honestly don't think you know what you are talking about?
CT has at lest ten new topics posted daily, i know because I'm on site twice a day every day, unless on holiday or out fishing.
If you care to look at the footer on CT it will also show you how many members have been on forum in the last 30mins
234 members at the moment.
The thread Alan stanley started back in Nov 2010, has got 248 posts, and had 21,571 views.
I think you must be viewing the wrong site?
Honestly Roger I do wonder what Planet you live on.RogerL said:
Prof John regularly takes time and trouble to cogently explain in simple easily understood language what is what under SOGA.
In a nutshell your Contract is with the Dealer from whom you bought the caravan.
The fact the Manufacturer has given a Guarantee in no way affects your legal consumer rights against the Dealer.
But SOGA would not apply after 6 years???? It is Bailey that is offering the extended warranty so not sure if the dealer woudl be involved that is if the dealer is still trading.Prof John L said:
Hello Surfer
Whilst your point is of interest it is not relevant to the OP
However you must divorce consumers statutory rights under SoGA with any connection to the manufactuers guarantee. They are not the same and are totally different legal entities.
Fundamentally SoGA relates to the condition of the goods (or services) AT THE TIME OF PURCHACE and the products ability to perform its stated purpose. it is effectively a statement (or warrant or affidavid) that the goods comply with contract. this is why itapplies to teh seller and customer
The manufacturers guarantee is a statement of intent that if certain specefied events occure the manufacture will respond in a specified way. it does not warrant that the goods comply with contract or that the products will perform as expected. It is a contract between the manufacture and the customer, it does not directly involve the seller, consequently the trading status of the seller has no relevance to the continuation of the manufactures guarantee.
These differences are important and must not be confused or related to each other.
Expirey of the period coverd by SoGA has absolutely no bearing on the validity of the manufacturers guarantee.
As a matter of fact, provide the customer has correctly assigned or registered the product with the manufacturer in accordance with T&C's then a contract has been enacted, and it has just as much legal force as any other contractural arrangement. Provide all the T&C's have been complied with, then if a manufacture prematurely terminated a contract without just cause it woudl be breach of contract .
Whilst your point is of interest it is not relevant to the OP
However you must divorce consumers statutory rights under SoGA with any connection to the manufactuers guarantee. They are not the same and are totally different legal entities.
Fundamentally SoGA relates to the condition of the goods (or services) AT THE TIME OF PURCHACE and the products ability to perform its stated purpose. it is effectively a statement (or warrant or affidavid) that the goods comply with contract. this is why itapplies to teh seller and customer
The manufacturers guarantee is a statement of intent that if certain specefied events occure the manufacture will respond in a specified way. it does not warrant that the goods comply with contract or that the products will perform as expected. It is a contract between the manufacture and the customer, it does not directly involve the seller, consequently the trading status of the seller has no relevance to the continuation of the manufactures guarantee.
These differences are important and must not be confused or related to each other.
Expirey of the period coverd by SoGA has absolutely no bearing on the validity of the manufacturers guarantee.
As a matter of fact, provide the customer has correctly assigned or registered the product with the manufacturer in accordance with T&C's then a contract has been enacted, and it has just as much legal force as any other contractural arrangement. Provide all the T&C's have been complied with, then if a manufacture prematurely terminated a contract without just cause it woudl be breach of contract .
Ditto
I would be extremely interested in what they do with the floor.
Do they simply dry it out?
Could it delaminate?
I would want the caravan under cover, with a heater inside to start the drying out process?
I would be extremely interested in what they do with the floor.
Do they simply dry it out?
Could it delaminate?
I would want the caravan under cover, with a heater inside to start the drying out process?
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