Hi had my unicorn for nearly a year and when emptying van to go for service found near side under the seat half way down to front where wall meets floor soaking wet.Phoned my dealer who took van right away to inspect,phoned me back and told me they were to repair fault as BAILEY knew of the problem.So angry as ten year water ingress is rubbish (for want of a better word)van just 1 year old am totally disguested and angry. Phoned caravan club lawyers and was told as long as van is over 6 months old must let dealer repair. SICK!
bailey unicorn valencia water ingress
- Thread starter shug
- Start date
This has been a recurrent problem with Bailey's Alutec construction since it's launch - it affects relatively few caravans out of all those they've sold but it's diabolical that they still don't have a cure for the problem - just repairing affected caravans isn't what customers want.
A significant number of us won't have Bailey on our shortlist for a new caravan, in my case despite having an excellent pre-Alutec Bailey.
A significant number of us won't have Bailey on our shortlist for a new caravan, in my case despite having an excellent pre-Alutec Bailey.
Ummm... baileys alutec not as good as most people shout about.. i feel really sorry for you, van less than twelve months old and damp, everyones worst nightmare.
i agree the big up by mags and programs is a joke still problems and the awards still stack up year afteer year but still we here off these problems.
So much for all vans will be built this way, you forget 1 service in its 10 yr life and there goes you warranty.
Just to add to Baileys shouting about fixed price servicing of £150 they forgot to add VAT and parts used to that.
Just to add to Baileys shouting about fixed price servicing of £150 they forgot to add VAT and parts used to that.
I am sorry to read of your water ingress problem, with the caravan. It is clearly an issue because one of the major advertising tenants was the caravans construction being significantly better at resisting water ingress.
Sadly I can understand your exasperation at only being offered a repair. With a caravan at over six months old; legally that is all you are entitled to - unless you can prove the fault (or its primary causes) were present at the time you bought the caravan. Unfortunately the burden of proof for that now rests with you, and as the age of the product increases that becomes increasingly difficult.
Whilst it does not meet with your entire satisfaction, the dealer is at least offering you a repair and apparently without challenging the cause.
This is all governed by the Sale of Goods Act (SoGA). It is intended to find fair and equitable remedys for when retail products or services go wrong. It is not intended favour the customer or retailer and as such neither party must expect to get more out of the remedy than is justified.
All the seller is required to do is to ensure that a remedy does not leave the customer any worse off than if the fault had not occurred in the first place. So for example the seller should pay for all carriage or transportation charges incurred to return the faulty product to the seller premises or nominated repair/exchange centre.
The manufactures guarantee must not be mistaken for the customer statutory rights under SoGA. whilst they may appear to offer similar benefits, they are legally very different, and most importantly, the manufacturers guarantee can never diminish your rights under SoGA.
Sadly I can understand your exasperation at only being offered a repair. With a caravan at over six months old; legally that is all you are entitled to - unless you can prove the fault (or its primary causes) were present at the time you bought the caravan. Unfortunately the burden of proof for that now rests with you, and as the age of the product increases that becomes increasingly difficult.
Whilst it does not meet with your entire satisfaction, the dealer is at least offering you a repair and apparently without challenging the cause.
This is all governed by the Sale of Goods Act (SoGA). It is intended to find fair and equitable remedys for when retail products or services go wrong. It is not intended favour the customer or retailer and as such neither party must expect to get more out of the remedy than is justified.
All the seller is required to do is to ensure that a remedy does not leave the customer any worse off than if the fault had not occurred in the first place. So for example the seller should pay for all carriage or transportation charges incurred to return the faulty product to the seller premises or nominated repair/exchange centre.
The manufactures guarantee must not be mistaken for the customer statutory rights under SoGA. whilst they may appear to offer similar benefits, they are legally very different, and most importantly, the manufacturers guarantee can never diminish your rights under SoGA.
Even under SoGA it can be argued that a repair DOES leave the customer worse off - before the problem the customer had a caravan that was dry and had never leaked - that'll never be the case after repair and when trade-in comes an eagle-eyed dealer will spot the repair and offer accordingly less.
The question of post repair residual value is an important issue.
In this case ask the supplying / repairng dealer for a written statement that in the future this repair will not cause them to offer you less in px.
Clearly this more than just damp according to the OP so I'd be interested to know a bit more about causation. If it transpires there was an inherent defect in design or construction , present from day one that lead to this problem then following Prof John's script it may be there is still a case for a full refund .
In this case ask the supplying / repairng dealer for a written statement that in the future this repair will not cause them to offer you less in px.
Clearly this more than just damp according to the OP so I'd be interested to know a bit more about causation. If it transpires there was an inherent defect in design or construction , present from day one that lead to this problem then following Prof John's script it may be there is still a case for a full refund .
How does that work if the supplying and repairing dealers are different - but in any case it's limiting your choice of dealer when p/x time comes - it also doesn't stop that dealer offering less beneficial discount to cover his real valuation.Dustydog said:
RogerL said:
With such an important failure I think it would be madness to have the repair done by anyone other than the supplying dealer.
Absolutely agree he may be limited to the current dealer and ok discounts off the new model may pose a problem. So back to my earlier point about post repair residual value. Short of getting a full refund ,on the basis the original caravan was fundementally flawed and had an inherent or latent defect ; what can the OP do to protect himself against a future lesser residual value.
I suppose it is possible the repair isn't as drastic as the damage sounds and at the moment we don't know. Perhaps Damian may have a better knowledge of exactly what caused the issue??
You have to remember though, no manufacturer can guarantee that water ingress will not happen. Bailey just guarantee they will put it right if it does in the first 10 years which is better than most. So please don't let it spoil your enjoyment of the caravan, I'm sure you'll be checking that they do a good job.
Hello Roger,
SoGA only applies between the customer and the seller, consequently the only time a warranty repairer will not be the seller is when the seller subcontracts the repair work to another company even under these circumstances the seller is still responsible for any work carried out under warranty. This even applies if a caravan is returned by the seller to the manufacture (who becomes a sub contractor of the dealer) for warranty repairs, the repairs are still the responsibility of the dealer. This is one reason why it is important to understand the difference between warranty and manufactures guarantee.
However the same is not necessarily true of repairs carried out under the manufacturers guarantee which is entirely different scenario, where your guarantee contract is with the manufacture and not a dealer. In this case the dealers are subcontractors of the manufacture.
As for value, unless the caravan is of a particularly unusual make or model, the value of an undamaged caravan should be easy to ascertain.
SoGA only applies between the customer and the seller, consequently the only time a warranty repairer will not be the seller is when the seller subcontracts the repair work to another company even under these circumstances the seller is still responsible for any work carried out under warranty. This even applies if a caravan is returned by the seller to the manufacture (who becomes a sub contractor of the dealer) for warranty repairs, the repairs are still the responsibility of the dealer. This is one reason why it is important to understand the difference between warranty and manufactures guarantee.
However the same is not necessarily true of repairs carried out under the manufacturers guarantee which is entirely different scenario, where your guarantee contract is with the manufacture and not a dealer. In this case the dealers are subcontractors of the manufacture.
As for value, unless the caravan is of a particularly unusual make or model, the value of an undamaged caravan should be easy to ascertain.
is it not 6 years with a futher 4 years and the 4years does not cover the same as the 6 years free off charge ?
RogerL said:
First I've heard about "a recurrent problem", only ever read of around three leaks in Alutech.
Do you have any links.
FG,
I think you need to explain your reply a bit more, for example where dose the 4 years come from?
I think you need to explain your reply a bit more, for example where dose the 4 years come from?
It's been coming up all the time across various caravan forums, ever since Alutec was launched. A number of the early launch models had leaks, visible on the showground! A number of dealers have dismissed the issue as "condensation" despite there being no reason for the condensation. One dealer has given up the Bailey franchise because of the issue.RAY said:
The chargeable retightening of panel fixings at 3 years old wasn't there at launch but only introduced afterwards in response to this issue.
A number of owners have had their Alutec go back to the factory to fix the problem.
The basic Bailey warranty is 2 years, ie everything is covered for 2 years. Certain items are covered for a 3rd year. This limited cover can be extended, at extra cost, for years 4, 5 and 6. The bodyshell integrity warranty can be extended, again at extra cost, for years 7,8,9 and 10.
http://www.bailey-caravans.co.uk/product-range/new-caravans/alu-tech-construction/pegasus/warranty/
http://www.bailey-caravans.co.uk/product-range/new-caravans/alu-tech-construction/pegasus/warranty/
I have a Unicorn Valencia which, when installing an audio cable, discovered had been leaking. There were water marks in the wet cupboards under the plastic liners. There were water marks down the front of the van, coming from the holes for the front grab handles. The bolts to these handles were not very tight and, after having spoken to the dealer, I filled the voids with silicon sealant and tightened up the bolts. I was not very happy with this and am pleased that I discovered it early.....
As the starter of a post concerning 'Alu-Tech bodies any leaks yet' on the most popular 'Bailey Forum' I find your remarks interesting.
So far that question has in excess of 33,000 views,replies and comments. It has identified 4 vans including this one that have been examined for a problem with water ingress. None of them has a common cause or effect and none except for this one has been in that area so please identify the evidence for your statements about it being a known and recurrent problem and 'It's been coming up all the time across various caravan forums'. Of these, one van has actually been identified as an incorrectly fitted/sealed moulding cover. Two refer to water being found in the roof. They are reported fixed and may well be from roof fixtures not Alu-Tech construction as such.
The checking of 'accessible' body bolts at 3 years has been in from day one. Engineering wise the bolts are not an element that effects the water resistance of the body in any significant way. They hold the structure solid and at prescribed pressure so that the sealant/adhesive can cure. The M.D. has been on Television this year and stated catagorically that they have not had one single problem with these fixings. This type of construction has been common practice for decades in commercial/motoring/aircraft/boat and many other constructions. Please name the 'dealer' you claim has given up the franchise because of this issue. I'm sure Bailey should have the chance to reply.
Your statements on the Bailey warranty if factually correct misses out the important aspect that the last 4 years of the warranty are given from day one as 'free' this has applied from day 1 to all purchasers and is part of the contract of sale. As it happens we own 2 vans on Alu-Tech and one 2010 Swift. The Swift warranty is more restrictive in what it covers and it precludes me taking the van abroad for more than 90 days. I have asked Swift why this restriction is in and their reply is best described as a Fudge. The Bailey does not have this restriction and they are happy for me to tour Europe for months on end.
So far that question has in excess of 33,000 views,replies and comments. It has identified 4 vans including this one that have been examined for a problem with water ingress. None of them has a common cause or effect and none except for this one has been in that area so please identify the evidence for your statements about it being a known and recurrent problem and 'It's been coming up all the time across various caravan forums'. Of these, one van has actually been identified as an incorrectly fitted/sealed moulding cover. Two refer to water being found in the roof. They are reported fixed and may well be from roof fixtures not Alu-Tech construction as such.
The checking of 'accessible' body bolts at 3 years has been in from day one. Engineering wise the bolts are not an element that effects the water resistance of the body in any significant way. They hold the structure solid and at prescribed pressure so that the sealant/adhesive can cure. The M.D. has been on Television this year and stated catagorically that they have not had one single problem with these fixings. This type of construction has been common practice for decades in commercial/motoring/aircraft/boat and many other constructions. Please name the 'dealer' you claim has given up the franchise because of this issue. I'm sure Bailey should have the chance to reply.
Your statements on the Bailey warranty if factually correct misses out the important aspect that the last 4 years of the warranty are given from day one as 'free' this has applied from day 1 to all purchasers and is part of the contract of sale. As it happens we own 2 vans on Alu-Tech and one 2010 Swift. The Swift warranty is more restrictive in what it covers and it precludes me taking the van abroad for more than 90 days. I have asked Swift why this restriction is in and their reply is best described as a Fudge. The Bailey does not have this restriction and they are happy for me to tour Europe for months on end.
I use both this forum and CT, and know all the issues with Alutech, as I've read all the relevant posts.RogerL said:
On the CT forum no more than three reports have been posted.
So what other forums are you quoting?
If any leaks do occur its usually due to mastic not being applied correctly, but as only the floor and furniture is at risk, any leaks should not cause any damage to the walls or roof, as they do not contain any wood, the inner wall is a GRP type construction.
So no matter how you look at it the construction is a step forward over old build caravans.
And then we have the 10 year free body ingress cover.
Roger
I too have only seen a couple of problems. Certainly two for me against the thousands sold could hardly be "recurrent".
The ones I have read of relate to a missing mastic seal. Poor QA I guess. The other was more about condensation.
When we bought the Wyoming it was first of its generation to bring back alumionium framed windows. The condensation was a real issue which we solved in the end , partly with ventilation and partly with absorbtion strips.
I'd love to see the links you kave to the problems and to know who the Dealer is??
I too have only seen a couple of problems. Certainly two for me against the thousands sold could hardly be "recurrent".
The ones I have read of relate to a missing mastic seal. Poor QA I guess. The other was more about condensation.
When we bought the Wyoming it was first of its generation to bring back alumionium framed windows. The condensation was a real issue which we solved in the end , partly with ventilation and partly with absorbtion strips.
I'd love to see the links you kave to the problems and to know who the Dealer is??
My 11-year old Bailey has traditional construction - it doesn't leak or have any issues with condensation despite standing unheated all winter - I've heard of very few issues with Baileys built before the introduction of Series models.RAY said:
According to Bailey's own website, the 10-year body ingress cover is at extra cost just like the 6-year warranty - I quote "An additional 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th year extension to the Bodyshell Integrity Guarantee is available at an additional cost. An additional 4th, 5th and 6th year extension to the Manufacturer's Warranty is also available. Please ask your Bailey retailer for more information."
It may be that some special offers are including those warranty extensions free-of-charge but you still have to pay top price for servicing to keep the warranty up.
I think the new construction method has potential but it's dependent on the quality of assembly which is probably where it's being let down.
Bailey have all the statistics on these issues - but like all manufacturers they keep them secret.Dustydog said:
I don't keep statistics or links for everything I read on the internet.
Since we can't name & shame dealers on this forum, I've no intention of naming the dealer involved, even though their action is commendable.
The extra 4 years body cover is free, so in effect my Valencia is covered for 10 years.RogerL said:
Any body leaks will be via sealant failure, but as the walls and roof do not contain wood, the only weak point left is the floor, which is supposed to be protected anyway?
Also its pointless making claims about water ingress problems if you can't produce any links.
RogerL said:
Roger like Ray I have not seen much indicating that Bailey have an Alu-tech problem that warrants such a robust statement and like him I would very much like the specific links please.
I am aware of a few instances of water being found, be it ingress or condensation but even this is I thought limited to a few individuals that have informed us on more than this one forum.
Clearly if it is "coming up all the time" rather than often repeated statements from the few unfortunates effected then Bailey have a mega problem that owners, potential owners and interested individuals really need you to identify more specifically.
Can we have the links supporting your statement please?
JTQ
TRENDING THREADS
-
-
-
-
12v supply to fridge fault after testing voltage !! Help please
- Started by Joggerdude
- Replies: 4
-
-
-
Facebook
Twitter