Chrissie, Not being a member of the C&CC I think that the concern is not that this is the opinion of some man, but it is the opinion of one of the leading lights in the organisation.
C&CC -v- 4x4's
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There are a few issues regarding green laning I'm unsure of. Like John in another thread I don't know enough about it but from the info I've collated from posts so far I cannot see the point of it. What satisfaction in it is there? Clive says they look after the environment - how, by filling in the ruts after they have passed? Forget the anology of cement works or air travel because some of that is neccessary - is greenlaning neccessary? or is it to prove a point. The only greens/enviromentally friendly collective body as I can see are the Ramblers. They cause no pollution at all and use Shanks's pony to get from A to Z and while doing so have minimum impact on wildlife or wild plants. They also keep Public Rights of Way open against the wishes of some landowners. I wouldn't think greenlaning would do your wife much good either Lol if she has an arthritic spine. I've got this vision in my head of what greenlaning involves and I dont think I'm far wrong. My main concern though is the disturbance to wildlife and nesting birds also the destruction of local fauna. In Clipstone Forest where I spent many happy hours as a child trainspotting by the lineside it was Utopia on earth. Between the infrequent coals trains I was enveloped in peace. The only sounds came from grasshoppers, birds, bees, bluebottles etc. Last year on a nice sunny day I decided to go and relive that little bit of Utopia before I turned my toes up. The noise was deafening from off road bikes and the lanes rutted. The clearings between the trees where butterflies once flitted and skylarks sang resembled a picture of the Somme. It's in the countryside that you would expect to get some solitude but in todays world that is no more. What I would like is for Clive to elaborate and tell us what he means by "Those of us who take pride in the conservation work we do on green lanes also take pride in the "tread lightly" philosophy". Its no good being told to go check out sites that are obviously pro-greenlaning, if so post a site that is anti-greenlaning so that the likes of John and myself can get an all round view, not a biased one. This isn't a catch post, I'm just interested in the environment what greenlaning entails, I have no vested interests in rambling either. Clive dont use this post as me being anti 4x4 because you know I'm not. If anyone needs a 4x4 for towing or like Steve need one for access I have no problem.
ChrissieIt begins to seem that I am the only person on here who does not think 4x4 drivers have a divine right to churn up green lanes and reduce them to dangerous mud-baths. I'm mystified as to why anyone would want to indulge in this activity and certainly cannot understand why it should be treated as an issue of liberty. What about the freedom of the rest of us to enjoy the countryside in peace - does that not count for anything?
As for resigning from the C&CC - why? I seem to recall that Dr Bellamy's predecessor was the Duke of Edinburgh. He certainly has made some pretty absurd statements in his time, but I do not recall mass resignations as a result! There are plenty of issues on which I disagree with David Bellamy's point of view, but he is entitled to that view, which carries no more weight with the C&CC than do those of any other members: his is not a policy making role, he is merely a figurehead, albeit a somewhat more outspoken one than most organisations have.
Please have a look at my posts both here and on the adjacent threat on Chit Chat.
You state that Greenlaners think they have the right to churn up green lanes.
WE DO NOT THINK THAT - NOR DO WE DO IT!
Your attitude is most likely due to your being wrongly informed by the Antis. This is what they want people to believe.
But it is a lie.
Those of us that use greenlanes properly use them usually in conjunction with the Local Councils Rights of Way Officer and provide the much needed labour to help keep footpaths, bridleways, RUPPS and BOATS open for all.
And what do we get?
Nothing but verbal abuse from the bobble hat brigade.
BOATS = circa 5% - and yet the Ramblers now have 100% - Why are they so greedy.
And why (and how?) did they manage to ignore the very research they demanded, hoping that it would prove they were right, when in fact it proved that 4x4's DO NOT DAMAGE GREEN LANES.
However, it did say that the walkers going up and down Ben Nevis were destroying the area!!
But the Anti's will not tell you that.
It does not fit their version of Politically Correct reality.
Chrissie
Please have a look at my posts both here and on the adjacent threat on Chit Chat.
You state that Greenlaners think they have the right to churn up green lanes.
WE DO NOT THINK THAT - NOR DO WE DO IT!
Your attitude is most likely due to your being wrongly informed by the Antis. This is what they want people to believe.
But it is a lie.
Those of us that use greenlanes properly use them usually in conjunction with the Local Councils Rights of Way Officer and provide the much needed labour to help keep footpaths, bridleways, RUPPS and BOATS open for all.
And what do we get?
Nothing but verbal abuse from the bobble hat brigade.
BOATS = circa 5% - and yet the Ramblers now have 100% - Why are they so greedy.
And why (and how?) did they manage to ignore the very research they demanded, hoping that it would prove they were right, when in fact it proved that 4x4's DO NOT DAMAGE GREEN LANES.
However, it did say that the walkers going up and down Ben Nevis were destroying the area!!
But the Anti's will not tell you that.
It does not fit their version of Politically Correct reality.
Please have a look at my posts both here and on the adjacent threat on Chit Chat.
You state that Greenlaners think they have the right to churn up green lanes.
WE DO NOT THINK THAT - NOR DO WE DO IT!
Your attitude is most likely due to your being wrongly informed by the Antis. This is what they want people to believe.
But it is a lie.
Those of us that use greenlanes properly use them usually in conjunction with the Local Councils Rights of Way Officer and provide the much needed labour to help keep footpaths, bridleways, RUPPS and BOATS open for all.
And what do we get?
Nothing but verbal abuse from the bobble hat brigade.
BOATS = circa 5% - and yet the Ramblers now have 100% - Why are they so greedy.
And why (and how?) did they manage to ignore the very research they demanded, hoping that it would prove they were right, when in fact it proved that 4x4's DO NOT DAMAGE GREEN LANES.
However, it did say that the walkers going up and down Ben Nevis were destroying the area!!
But the Anti's will not tell you that.
It does not fit their version of Politically Correct reality.
Clive you keep mentioning these antis - point me in their direction please because I need to hear their view as well as yours. I've yet to see an anti greenlaner yet, wearing a bobble hat or a clowns hat for that matter. Do these antis have a website at all???Chrissie
Please have a look at my posts both here and on the adjacent threat on Chit Chat.
You state that Greenlaners think they have the right to churn up green lanes.
WE DO NOT THINK THAT - NOR DO WE DO IT!
Your attitude is most likely due to your being wrongly informed by the Antis. This is what they want people to believe.
But it is a lie.
Those of us that use greenlanes properly use them usually in conjunction with the Local Councils Rights of Way Officer and provide the much needed labour to help keep footpaths, bridleways, RUPPS and BOATS open for all.
And what do we get?
Nothing but verbal abuse from the bobble hat brigade.
BOATS = circa 5% - and yet the Ramblers now have 100% - Why are they so greedy.
And why (and how?) did they manage to ignore the very research they demanded, hoping that it would prove they were right, when in fact it proved that 4x4's DO NOT DAMAGE GREEN LANES.
However, it did say that the walkers going up and down Ben Nevis were destroying the area!!
But the Anti's will not tell you that.
It does not fit their version of Politically Correct reality.
Why does every topic seem to drift into an aggressive irrational bout of name calling. Just for once it would be good to see a well thought out reasoned debate. I would have thought people would be more likely to change their opinions if they were approached in a reasonable manner rather than attempts to browbeat them.
Steve W
Steve W
LB
If you will not look at the websites that try to portray the positives of greenlaning I take it that you will not be looking at those of the anti's either?
For those that are genuinely uncertain of what it is all about have a look at the websites and make your own minds up.
As for the "what do we do - fill in the ruts after we have passed?" comment - I have to say YES - that is precisely what we do.
FODROW works with Dorset Rights of Way officers to repair footpaths, Bridleways RUPPS and BOATS.
Anyone going on their website will see this.
But in reality, if the Byway is likely to get damaged then a TRO is placed upon it. And only lifted when it dries out.
And remember that most of these BOATS are actually old roads and so are often gravelled.
The idea of the horrible 4x4 blasting down a muddy footpath scattering dogs, horses, people and cyclist to the four winds only exists in the minds of the Antis.
Yes there some is illegal off road use, but so to is there trespass, and illegal cycle use - the later in the New Forest in particular. But responsible greenlaners want this stupidity stopped as much as anyone else!
If you will not look at the websites that try to portray the positives of greenlaning I take it that you will not be looking at those of the anti's either?
For those that are genuinely uncertain of what it is all about have a look at the websites and make your own minds up.
As for the "what do we do - fill in the ruts after we have passed?" comment - I have to say YES - that is precisely what we do.
FODROW works with Dorset Rights of Way officers to repair footpaths, Bridleways RUPPS and BOATS.
Anyone going on their website will see this.
But in reality, if the Byway is likely to get damaged then a TRO is placed upon it. And only lifted when it dries out.
And remember that most of these BOATS are actually old roads and so are often gravelled.
The idea of the horrible 4x4 blasting down a muddy footpath scattering dogs, horses, people and cyclist to the four winds only exists in the minds of the Antis.
Yes there some is illegal off road use, but so to is there trespass, and illegal cycle use - the later in the New Forest in particular. But responsible greenlaners want this stupidity stopped as much as anyone else!
LBThere are a few issues regarding green laning I'm unsure of. Like John in another thread I don't know enough about it but from the info I've collated from posts so far I cannot see the point of it. What satisfaction in it is there? Clive says they look after the environment - how, by filling in the ruts after they have passed? Forget the anology of cement works or air travel because some of that is neccessary - is greenlaning neccessary? or is it to prove a point. The only greens/enviromentally friendly collective body as I can see are the Ramblers. They cause no pollution at all and use Shanks's pony to get from A to Z and while doing so have minimum impact on wildlife or wild plants. They also keep Public Rights of Way open against the wishes of some landowners. I wouldn't think greenlaning would do your wife much good either Lol if she has an arthritic spine. I've got this vision in my head of what greenlaning involves and I dont think I'm far wrong. My main concern though is the disturbance to wildlife and nesting birds also the destruction of local fauna. In Clipstone Forest where I spent many happy hours as a child trainspotting by the lineside it was Utopia on earth. Between the infrequent coals trains I was enveloped in peace. The only sounds came from grasshoppers, birds, bees, bluebottles etc. Last year on a nice sunny day I decided to go and relive that little bit of Utopia before I turned my toes up. The noise was deafening from off road bikes and the lanes rutted. The clearings between the trees where butterflies once flitted and skylarks sang resembled a picture of the Somme. It's in the countryside that you would expect to get some solitude but in todays world that is no more. What I would like is for Clive to elaborate and tell us what he means by "Those of us who take pride in the conservation work we do on green lanes also take pride in the "tread lightly" philosophy". Its no good being told to go check out sites that are obviously pro-greenlaning, if so post a site that is anti-greenlaning so that the likes of John and myself can get an all round view, not a biased one. This isn't a catch post, I'm just interested in the environment what greenlaning entails, I have no vested interests in rambling either. Clive dont use this post as me being anti 4x4 because you know I'm not. If anyone needs a 4x4 for towing or like Steve need one for access I have no problem.
At the moment for me it is access, But when my leg is fixed I will continue. Why?
Same reason as I caravan, the freedom, the places to see. The damage you talk about in your post is probably down to illegal use. The only thing the legislation will do is remove the careful users. The same users who would volunteer their time to fix this type of damage.
If the RA get their way, no one except fit people will be allowed in the countryside. Dogs will be banned, and according to their recent forum entires so will children under the age of 16 due to the noise they make while playing and the fact they cannot keep up with the adults.
This summer, 3 cars are heading up to the mountains in wales, 4 people will camp over night to take some special photographs of them at twilight and dawn. I would be excluded from this if it was not for the lanes and the landrover. I would never get to see the beauty of the the top of the mountains or would I be able to report any damage and help to get it fixed.
The illegal use will continue and perhaps get worse when the ability to drive lanes is removed. They are using them without respect now, so a law will not change it. But I and many others who like the use of the lanes, who take care of them and who help to maintain them for all, will miss out.
With this law and the current stealth taxes, its no wonder that many high paid people are leaving the UK. I know I am thinking about it.
Steve
Agree with you there Steve (no, really) the trouble is you will always attract the extremists with unshakable faith in their own facts, rational goes out the window and you end up sifting through the posts hoping to get an idea on the subject matter. We have all been there and as this is an open forum, we will be there again. Keeping an open mind is the tricky bit.
Try the ramblers association web siteClive you keep mentioning these antis - point me in their direction please because I need to hear their view as well as yours. I've yet to see an anti greenlaner yet, wearing a bobble hat or a clowns hat for that matter. Do these antis have a website at all???
Agree with what Steve says above.Clive you keep mentioning these antis - point me in their direction please because I need to hear their view as well as yours. I've yet to see an anti greenlaner yet, wearing a bobble hat or a clowns hat for that matter. Do these antis have a website at all???
Also just try googling "Anti 4x4" - "Anti Greenlaning" or Anti whatever! etc. Not difficult they are very verbose.
You will be spoilt for choice!
Like I said to Chrissie, I don't intend to bounce her around, I bounce, she boxes. At the end of the day I like my ears how they are now. We are both willing to give it a try though, we are looking forward to the views and the picnic when we get there. Now isn't that a nice day out?There are a few issues regarding green laning I'm unsure of. Like John in another thread I don't know enough about it but from the info I've collated from posts so far I cannot see the point of it. What satisfaction in it is there? Clive says they look after the environment - how, by filling in the ruts after they have passed? Forget the anology of cement works or air travel because some of that is neccessary - is greenlaning neccessary? or is it to prove a point. The only greens/enviromentally friendly collective body as I can see are the Ramblers. They cause no pollution at all and use Shanks's pony to get from A to Z and while doing so have minimum impact on wildlife or wild plants. They also keep Public Rights of Way open against the wishes of some landowners. I wouldn't think greenlaning would do your wife much good either Lol if she has an arthritic spine. I've got this vision in my head of what greenlaning involves and I dont think I'm far wrong. My main concern though is the disturbance to wildlife and nesting birds also the destruction of local fauna. In Clipstone Forest where I spent many happy hours as a child trainspotting by the lineside it was Utopia on earth. Between the infrequent coals trains I was enveloped in peace. The only sounds came from grasshoppers, birds, bees, bluebottles etc. Last year on a nice sunny day I decided to go and relive that little bit of Utopia before I turned my toes up. The noise was deafening from off road bikes and the lanes rutted. The clearings between the trees where butterflies once flitted and skylarks sang resembled a picture of the Somme. It's in the countryside that you would expect to get some solitude but in todays world that is no more. What I would like is for Clive to elaborate and tell us what he means by "Those of us who take pride in the conservation work we do on green lanes also take pride in the "tread lightly" philosophy". Its no good being told to go check out sites that are obviously pro-greenlaning, if so post a site that is anti-greenlaning so that the likes of John and myself can get an all round view, not a biased one. This isn't a catch post, I'm just interested in the environment what greenlaning entails, I have no vested interests in rambling either. Clive dont use this post as me being anti 4x4 because you know I'm not. If anyone needs a 4x4 for towing or like Steve need one for access I have no problem.
How true, I used to enjoy browsing on this forum, but just lately it seems to be getting just a bit to spiteful, shame really as it is a very useful site for information and sometimes it is really quite amusing reading about other peoples disasters. Makes you realise your not the only idiot out there on the campsites, despite what the better half says.Agree with you there Steve (no, really) the trouble is you will always attract the extremists with unshakable faith in their own facts, rational goes out the window and you end up sifting through the posts hoping to get an idea on the subject matter. We have all been there and as this is an open forum, we will be there again. Keeping an open mind is the tricky bit.
Steve W
It seems to me that the vast majority of people don't know what green laning is, I had never heard of it before I joined the forum and I'm sure this is the case with a lot of other forum uses going by some of the questions asked.
My take on this is that there are three groups here, the first being the responsible and considerate green laners, the second being the small minority of irresponsible off roaders and then an even smaller group being the antis who seem to make a lot more noise than all the other groups put together.
My take on this is that there are three groups here, the first being the responsible and considerate green laners, the second being the small minority of irresponsible off roaders and then an even smaller group being the antis who seem to make a lot more noise than all the other groups put together.
I have no facts Lol thats what I was trying to obtain and learn more about greenlaning. When asking who the antis were I got the usual sarcasm off Clive. I did say it wasn't a catch posting, I was genuinely trying to find out more. Its no good Clive making empty statements like saying he looks after the environment without him saying how he achieves this. I also stated I have no issues with people who use 4x4 for towing etc. because I didn't want Clive to turn my post around to being an "anti 4x4 as he has done with other peoples posts in the past. At least some good as come of this, I have just received an email saying " Carry on with the good work Your Lordship, at least its keeping the b*gger off our backs and we aren't getting the blame, regards, Tony and Gordon."
What are you doing over Easter LB, could you make a trip out our way to the meet? There is a good chance we will be doing a little green laneing and this would give you an idea of what goes on, me too. I have been offroading before in and around Catterick Garrison, but this sounds like a different kettle of fish.I have no facts Lol thats what I was trying to obtain and learn more about greenlaning. When asking who the antis were I got the usual sarcasm off Clive. I did say it wasn't a catch posting, I was genuinely trying to find out more. Its no good Clive making empty statements like saying he looks after the environment without him saying how he achieves this. I also stated I have no issues with people who use 4x4 for towing etc. because I didn't want Clive to turn my post around to being an "anti 4x4 as he has done with other peoples posts in the past. At least some good as come of this, I have just received an email saying " Carry on with the good work Your Lordship, at least its keeping the b*gger off our backs and we aren't getting the blame, regards, Tony and Gordon."
going by todays revelations Lol it looks like we'll be looking for volunteers to ride shotgunI have no facts Lol thats what I was trying to obtain and learn more about greenlaning. When asking who the antis were I got the usual sarcasm off Clive. I did say it wasn't a catch posting, I was genuinely trying to find out more. Its no good Clive making empty statements like saying he looks after the environment without him saying how he achieves this. I also stated I have no issues with people who use 4x4 for towing etc. because I didn't want Clive to turn my post around to being an "anti 4x4 as he has done with other peoples posts in the past. At least some good as come of this, I have just received an email saying " Carry on with the good work Your Lordship, at least its keeping the b*gger off our backs and we aren't getting the blame, regards, Tony and Gordon."
Clive, I have not been 'wrongly informed' by anyone. My remarks on green lanes were based purely on personal observation and apply only to the small corner of the Lincs/Cambs border that I know well. I was born and grew up on a farm, have lived in the countryside all my life and care passionately about it. I do not have any particular stance on 4x4s generally, although I would never want one myself.Chrissie
Please have a look at my posts both here and on the adjacent threat on Chit Chat.
You state that Greenlaners think they have the right to churn up green lanes.
WE DO NOT THINK THAT - NOR DO WE DO IT!
Your attitude is most likely due to your being wrongly informed by the Antis. This is what they want people to believe.
But it is a lie.
Those of us that use greenlanes properly use them usually in conjunction with the Local Councils Rights of Way Officer and provide the much needed labour to help keep footpaths, bridleways, RUPPS and BOATS open for all.
And what do we get?
Nothing but verbal abuse from the bobble hat brigade.
BOATS = circa 5% - and yet the Ramblers now have 100% - Why are they so greedy.
And why (and how?) did they manage to ignore the very research they demanded, hoping that it would prove they were right, when in fact it proved that 4x4's DO NOT DAMAGE GREEN LANES.
However, it did say that the walkers going up and down Ben Nevis were destroying the area!!
But the Anti's will not tell you that.
It does not fit their version of Politically Correct reality.
My main argument here is not the pros and cons of 4x4s, but the, as I see it, very illogical suggestion that the C&CC has come out against these vehicles, and therefore mass resignations are a good idea. As I have pointed out elsewhere, the C&CC magazine gives much favourable coverage to 4x4s, yet it only has to publish one small hostile piece and all hell breaks loose. I think a more balanced response is called for here.
Balanced response? Why? when the C&CC decide not to give one?Clive, I have not been 'wrongly informed' by anyone. My remarks on green lanes were based purely on personal observation and apply only to the small corner of the Lincs/Cambs border that I know well. I was born and grew up on a farm, have lived in the countryside all my life and care passionately about it. I do not have any particular stance on 4x4s generally, although I would never want one myself.
My main argument here is not the pros and cons of 4x4s, but the, as I see it, very illogical suggestion that the C&CC has come out against these vehicles, and therefore mass resignations are a good idea. As I have pointed out elsewhere, the C&CC magazine gives much favourable coverage to 4x4s, yet it only has to publish one small hostile piece and all hell breaks loose. I think a more balanced response is called for here.
Lol ,Chrissie, I have never green laned before, but hope to try it in the future. As I understand it, only a few roads are open to vehicles, it's a small percentage and they are little used. Please try to put yourself in another's position. Someone who is unable to make the trek across the countryside for whatever reason, should you deny that person a chance to experience what others think is their god given right? My wife suffers from arthritis in the spine, it means she cannot walk far, and certainly can't go yomping across fields to get a view that ramblers take for granted. Is that what it is, you have to be physically fit to enjoy our green and pleasant land? Surely getting people into the countryside is a good thing, some local economies depend on it. Like I said, I have not green laned before, but could you tell us, do they always churn up the lanes? There obviously seems to be some animosity between ramblers and green lanners, both have legitimate views on how to enjoy the countryside, surely it's big enough for all, or are the ramblers just being greedy?
before you take your wife green laning I should have a look at the road surface, I would hate to think you got so far and could not continue or go back without her suffering, these lanes do get cut up and rutted but around my kneck of the woods its more with trail bikes and tractors. good luck mate.
Tony A.
Well, I never expected that his Lordship would be the nearest I would find to an ally on here! As I have tried to point out, I am not an 'anti' when it comes to the 4x4 debate, merely unconvinced. Whatever may be said about the damage caused by recreational off-roading, I have seen some evidence with my own eyes and cannot understand how anyone who claims to care about the countryside (whatever they drive) can wish to leave such a mess behind them. As for their utility as towcars, my person view would be that caravan manufacturers would be better advised looking at ways of producing a lighterweight product that did not require a massive tug, rather that forcing up the ante by constatly increasing the weight. Incidentally, on page 43 of the same C&CC mag that caused all the outcry, you will find a very enthusistic report, by a staff writer of the Volvo XC70 (an all-wheel drive vehicle).
As for the article in by David Bellamy, it does not in any way suggest that C&CC members should not use 4x4s: in fact its concluding sentence reads 'let's keep 4x4s where they belong - parked on site, while the owners go off-roading on foot'. Neither David Bellamy, nor for that matter, in my own small way, I, have suggested that any of you who have chosen to buy these vehicles, should be prevented from using them as a means of transport or to tow your caravans. But as someone who was born in the country (only a humble peasant-girl, Your Lordship), has lived there all her life and is greatly distressed to see unnecessary damage of any kind caused to the rural environment, I do have to ask why there is this enormous outcry at the merest suggestion that the progress of the 4x4 should be in the slightest controlled.
As for the article in by David Bellamy, it does not in any way suggest that C&CC members should not use 4x4s: in fact its concluding sentence reads 'let's keep 4x4s where they belong - parked on site, while the owners go off-roading on foot'. Neither David Bellamy, nor for that matter, in my own small way, I, have suggested that any of you who have chosen to buy these vehicles, should be prevented from using them as a means of transport or to tow your caravans. But as someone who was born in the country (only a humble peasant-girl, Your Lordship), has lived there all her life and is greatly distressed to see unnecessary damage of any kind caused to the rural environment, I do have to ask why there is this enormous outcry at the merest suggestion that the progress of the 4x4 should be in the slightest controlled.
I don't think I have anywhere suggested that all 4x4 drivers are responsible for this sort of damage and indeed I did suggest that they might not always be even the main culprits - trailbikes certainly have a lot to answer for in some areas. I am not the enemy of responsible vehicle owners, so please to not turn me into an enemy when I am not.Chrissie, I drive a 4x4 however I decided to buy it to pull my caravan and also because I wanted one.
I do not go around churning up lanes as you describe 4x4 drivers do, I use mine on the road. It returns 38mpg deisel against most petrol cars 40mpg.
If you cannot be more specific on 4x4 drivers prahaps you shouldnt comment on them. As for all the green lanes being churned up read Clivev thread only 5% of lanes are used by 4x4 drivers. If other lanes are being churned up in your area that should not be used by 4x4s im sure you would get the full support of the 4x4 green lane gang to put a stop to it.
Anyone want to buy a twin axle 6 month old van?
According to the comments above, I must go to site and sit in my van because I am unable to walk into the countryside!
Nice selfish comment by you and the C&CC mag. you should be prosecuted for being prejudice. Try having a disability and accessing the countryside you say you love.
I'm Alright Jack!
According to the comments above, I must go to site and sit in my van because I am unable to walk into the countryside!
Nice selfish comment by you and the C&CC mag. you should be prosecuted for being prejudice. Try having a disability and accessing the countryside you say you love.
I'm Alright Jack!
As a 4x4 driver who like so many others I have my vehicle because it makes a great tow vehicle and a safe outfit. I never have and never intend to take it off road. I for one will drive what vehicle I want and will not be dictated to to some misguided dogooders who if they had their way would cause a major slump in the lesuire industry . My vehicle is road legal and probably emits less polution when towing ta caravan than a lot of executive cars which are driven round our streets needlesly. If the anti brigade wants to get on the polution band wagon then direct their energy at the biggest culprits.
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