Let me quote what you wrote CrissieChrissie, I drive a 4x4 however I decided to buy it to pull my caravan and also because I wanted one.
I do not go around churning up lanes as you describe 4x4 drivers do, I use mine on the road. It returns 38mpg deisel against most petrol cars 40mpg.
If you cannot be more specific on 4x4 drivers prahaps you shouldnt comment on them. As for all the green lanes being churned up read Clivev thread only 5% of lanes are used by 4x4 drivers. If other lanes are being churned up in your area that should not be used by 4x4s im sure you would get the full support of the 4x4 green lane gang to put a stop to it.
Not that you can't drive into the countryside, Steve, but can you not find some nice quiet spot along an existing road from which to enjoy it, without needing to drive 'off-road'? It is those last few metres that are the problem - are they really a necessary part of your enjoyment?Anyone want to buy a twin axle 6 month old van?
According to the comments above, I must go to site and sit in my van because I am unable to walk into the countryside!
Nice selfish comment by you and the C&CC mag. you should be prosecuted for being prejudice. Try having a disability and accessing the countryside you say you love.
I'm Alright Jack!
Nothing on "Anti Greenlaning" only 3 hits, all pro greenlaning.Agree with what Steve says above.
Also just try googling "Anti 4x4" - "Anti Greenlaning" or Anti whatever! etc. Not difficult they are very verbose.
You will be spoilt for choice!
Then you should direct you comments to green lanners both 4 wheel and 2 wheel not 4x4 drivers there is a huge difference. Over 90% of 4x4s have never been off road, so comments like 4x4 drivers is totaly wrong.Well, I never expected that his Lordship would be the nearest I would find to an ally on here! As I have tried to point out, I am not an 'anti' when it comes to the 4x4 debate, merely unconvinced. Whatever may be said about the damage caused by recreational off-roading, I have seen some evidence with my own eyes and cannot understand how anyone who claims to care about the countryside (whatever they drive) can wish to leave such a mess behind them. As for their utility as towcars, my person view would be that caravan manufacturers would be better advised looking at ways of producing a lighterweight product that did not require a massive tug, rather that forcing up the ante by constatly increasing the weight. Incidentally, on page 43 of the same C&CC mag that caused all the outcry, you will find a very enthusistic report, by a staff writer of the Volvo XC70 (an all-wheel drive vehicle).
As for the article in by David Bellamy, it does not in any way suggest that C&CC members should not use 4x4s: in fact its concluding sentence reads 'let's keep 4x4s where they belong - parked on site, while the owners go off-roading on foot'. Neither David Bellamy, nor for that matter, in my own small way, I, have suggested that any of you who have chosen to buy these vehicles, should be prevented from using them as a means of transport or to tow your caravans. But as someone who was born in the country (only a humble peasant-girl, Your Lordship), has lived there all her life and is greatly distressed to see unnecessary damage of any kind caused to the rural environment, I do have to ask why there is this enormous outcry at the merest suggestion that the progress of the 4x4 should be in the slightest controlled.
So let me get this right?Not that you can't drive into the countryside, Steve, but can you not find some nice quiet spot along an existing road from which to enjoy it, without needing to drive 'off-road'? It is those last few metres that are the problem - are they really a necessary part of your enjoyment?
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this thread getting de-railed again. I thought it was about going off road / greenlaning and now its back to the usual crap of whether anyone should be allowed to drive a 4x4 or not.As a 4x4 driver who like so many others I have my vehicle because it makes a great tow vehicle and a safe outfit. I never have and never intend to take it off road. I for one will drive what vehicle I want and will not be dictated to to some misguided dogooders who if they had their way would cause a major slump in the lesuire industry . My vehicle is road legal and probably emits less polution when towing ta caravan than a lot of executive cars which are driven round our streets needlesly. If the anti brigade wants to get on the polution band wagon then direct their energy at the biggest culprits.
oops that should be reply not commentAs a 4x4 driver who like so many others I have my vehicle because it makes a great tow vehicle and a safe outfit. I never have and never intend to take it off road. I for one will drive what vehicle I want and will not be dictated to to some misguided dogooders who if they had their way would cause a major slump in the lesuire industry . My vehicle is road legal and probably emits less polution when towing ta caravan than a lot of executive cars which are driven round our streets needlesly. If the anti brigade wants to get on the polution band wagon then direct their energy at the biggest culprits.
Yes I thought that too.If this is indeed the David Bellamy, then I am saddened that someone whom I had respect for has just lost it. And I am not referring just to my respect.
To come onto a caravanning Forum and make a pathetic snide comment about "bits of rough" and men's "equipment failing" beggars belief.
Mr Bellamy - you have fallen to far lower standards than I thought possible.
Green laning is NOT what you would like it to be in that warped holier that thou mind of yours.
If you take the trouble to read my response to you on the adjacent thread you will see that I ask for your comments as to why you are so against a small sub-group of vehicles that are only different in ways that make them last longer and have greater abilities.
The real pollution issues are aircraft flights (no tax on aviation fuel - how "green" is that???!!!) and cement production two name just two. The later of which produces more CO2 than all the cars in the world - In fact Cement production produces 1/3 of all the CO2 produced by man.
So even if we took ALL cars of the road, but carried on building it would make naff all difference.
So tell me Mr Bellamy - I haven't seen you on TV for a while.
Do you think jumping on the spurious "Anti 4x4" bandwagon will get you the exposure you need to re-inflate your dwindling cash balance? - Or is it an ego thing?
Whatever your reasoning - I suggest if you REALLY wanted to do something - making smutty remarks like the one above is not the most sensible or intelligent way to go about it..
I think to get from that comment, to suggesting that I said all 4x4 drivers do this is pushing credulity a little far. Quite ovbviously, the comment was only aimed at those who do indulge in this activity. Read my posts, I have not descended into personal invective against those who have chosen a different vehicle to mine, yet I have been subjected to more than a little unpleasantness by those who seem unable to deal with anything less than wholehearted support for their own viewpoints.Let me quote what you wrote Crissie
02:18 PM It begins to seem that I am the only person on here who does not think 4x4 drivers have a divine right to churn up green lanes and reduce them to dangerous mud-baths
no mention of some 4x4 drivers just 4x4 drivers!!
Getting visuals of you lay in the sun together after making daisy chains. Your better half plucking out the hairs on your chest singing "he loves me, he loves me not".Like I said to Chrissie, I don't intend to bounce her around, I bounce, she boxes. At the end of the day I like my ears how they are now. We are both willing to give it a try though, we are looking forward to the views and the picnic when we get there. Now isn't that a nice day out?
chrissie - you are not going to win an access argument with a disabled person!Anyone want to buy a twin axle 6 month old van?
According to the comments above, I must go to site and sit in my van because I am unable to walk into the countryside!
Nice selfish comment by you and the C&CC mag. you should be prosecuted for being prejudice. Try having a disability and accessing the countryside you say you love.
I'm Alright Jack!
Nice idea, Clive, but I'll pass - I've been down many a green lane in my time, often on a trailer behind a tractor or even on top of a load pulled by a horse - those were the days! While I can quite see that for some people, to do this in a 4x4 may be enjoyable, but I still fail to see how it can be construed as 'necessary'. I have already decided to give any further attempt at debate with Steve a miss. I do wonder, however, if he ever paused to consider what my personal level of mobility might be?chrissie - you are not going to win an access argument with a disabled person!
I suggest you do not bother as it makes you come across very much as uncaring and "I am alright Jack".
May I suggest that if you have not been greenlaning then it is hardly surprising that you cannot see the point of it.
People tell me the same about riding a motorcycle (something that I have done in the past but would never do now as the roads are just too dangerous) Others say the same about flying and getting their PPL.
What is the point of that when you can drive or take a train. After all if you break down whilst flying you could be entering Gods earth like a dart!
Try ringing/contacting GLASS and see if someone will take you out on a trip. At least then you will be talking from a position of having done what you say is not necessary.
Thank you for your concern Tony. My wife suffer this affliction and has in the past been laid up for weeks on end unable to walk further than the bathroom and sometimes even that distance has been too far. Luckily she has found a wonderful bone doctor, not through the NHS may I add, but this chiropractor has given her a new lease on life and providing she doesn't over do things, can enjoy life to the full. Walking however is one of those activities that can put strain on her back; sitting in the car (we find the Sorento's seats quite comfortable) is a lot less taxing.Lol ,
before you take your wife green laning I should have a look at the road surface, I would hate to think you got so far and could not continue or go back without her suffering, these lanes do get cut up and rutted but around my kneck of the woods its more with trail bikes and tractors. good luck mate.
Tony A.
Hi again ChrissieNice idea, Clive, but I'll pass - I've been down many a green lane in my time, often on a trailer behind a tractor or even on top of a load pulled by a horse - those were the days! While I can quite see that for some people, to do this in a 4x4 may be enjoyable, but I still fail to see how it can be construed as 'necessary'. I have already decided to give any further attempt at debate with Steve a miss. I do wonder, however, if he ever paused to consider what my personal level of mobility might be?
Hi again ChrissieAnyone want to buy a twin axle 6 month old van?
According to the comments above, I must go to site and sit in my van because I am unable to walk into the countryside!
Nice selfish comment by you and the C&CC mag. you should be prosecuted for being prejudice. Try having a disability and accessing the countryside you say you love.
I'm Alright Jack!
Why should I, You and the C&CC mag did not consider anyone else when you made your commentsNice idea, Clive, but I'll pass - I've been down many a green lane in my time, often on a trailer behind a tractor or even on top of a load pulled by a horse - those were the days! While I can quite see that for some people, to do this in a 4x4 may be enjoyable, but I still fail to see how it can be construed as 'necessary'. I have already decided to give any further attempt at debate with Steve a miss. I do wonder, however, if he ever paused to consider what my personal level of mobility might be?
Ok, so now your worrying me, your getting too many visuals of me, and my homophobic side is becomming active! Please concentrate on Colin, I hear he's a fine looking man and well preserved..... ;o)Like I said to Chrissie, I don't intend to bounce her around, I bounce, she boxes. At the end of the day I like my ears how they are now. We are both willing to give it a try though, we are looking forward to the views and the picnic when we get there. Now isn't that a nice day out?
Clive I'm not asking to do greenlaning so why seek out a local GLASS person - I was asking whats involved and for someone who does it to explain so other forum members know whats involved. I had my own idea what it entailed probably like others but just wanted it clarifying, no need to beat about the bush or go around The Wrekin to get there, just plain simple facts.Hi LB
I think I have said on a number of occasions that I am a fairly active user of the countryside. This often involves retrieving injured animals and transporting anything and everything. I also drive Salisbury Plain (when they are not lobbing ordinance about!) and can categorically state that the most extreme "Off-roading" the Army can through at it, has not damaged the flora and fauna of that wonderful place one jot.
I am saddened that you seem to have decided that to look at pro greenlining sites is "no good" to use your words.
In the absence of a fair and balanced site ready made for you to see both sides of the argument - I do not know what to suggest?
I would urge you to reconsider - have a look at both and make your own mind up.
Also - why not contact you local GLASS Representative and ask if you could arrange to go out with one of their members.
What better way to find out about something than to actually do it.
Anyone that is interested can do this!
Theres no need to panic .. I cant eat a hotdog without my homophobia kicking in :O(Ok, so now your worrying me, your getting too many visuals of me, and my homophobic side is becomming active! Please concentrate on Colin, I hear he's a fine looking man and well preserved..... ;o)
Facebook
Twitter