C&CC -v- 4x4's

[AnnM1]

I am sure I am not the only member of the C&CC considering terminating their membership after the latest assault on 4x4's by David Bellamy (Feb magazine). If we are all in the same frame of mind, I ask myself, how will the club survive. We don't own a 4x4 but, will not tolerate a 'club' dictating to its members in such a way. On principle I feel my only recourse is the withdraw my membership.

I have tried making contact with the C&CC on the website. Unfortunately this is not possible as there is no 'contact' thread. It now means a phone call. What sort of club, of this nature, doesn't have a 'Forum' for its members? What are they afraid of?

Rant over .... back to my nice cup of coffee!!!

 

[AnnM1]

Apologies, in advance, if this has been posted in the wrong area.

 

[Scorpio_5041540]

For those of us fortunate enough not to be members of the C & CC, please tell us what he said.

As I drive a 4 x 4 I am sure he will be no friend of mine but it would be nice to know just how much of a danger he is to large numbers of caravanners who have little choice but to tow with a 4 x 4.

 

[chrissie2]

It begins to seem that I am the only person on here who does not think 4x4 drivers have a divine right to churn up green lanes and reduce them to dangerous mud-baths. I'm mystified as to why anyone would want to indulge in this activity and certainly cannot understand why it should be treated as an issue of liberty. What about the freedom of the rest of us to enjoy the countryside in peace - does that not count for anything?

As for resigning from the C&CC - why? I seem to recall that Dr Bellamy's predecessor was the Duke of Edinburgh. He certainly has made some pretty absurd statements in his time, but I do not recall mass resignations as a result! There are plenty of issues on which I disagree with David Bellamy's point of view, but he is entitled to that view, which carries no more weight with the C&CC than do those of any other members: his is not a policy making role, he is merely a figurehead, albeit a somewhat more outspoken one than most organisations have.

 

[jacky3]

GET YOUR SELF A 4X4 BELLAMY, AS, AS I SEE IT, ALL YOUR EQUIPMENT SEEMS TO BE DEFUNCT ALSO

 

[Scorpio_5041540]

It begins to seem that I am the only person on here who does not think 4x4 drivers have a divine right to churn up green lanes and reduce them to dangerous mud-baths. I'm mystified as to why anyone would want to indulge in this activity and certainly cannot understand why it should be treated as an issue of liberty. What about the freedom of the rest of us to enjoy the countryside in peace - does that not count for anything?

As for resigning from the C&CC - why? I seem to recall that Dr Bellamy's predecessor was the Duke of Edinburgh. He certainly has made some pretty absurd statements in his time, but I do not recall mass resignations as a result! There are plenty of issues on which I disagree with David Bellamy's point of view, but he is entitled to that view, which carries no more weight with the C&CC than do those of any other members: his is not a policy making role, he is merely a figurehead, albeit a somewhat more outspoken one than most organisations have.

What did he say? I am dying to know!

 

[chrissie2]

What did he say? I am dying to know!

Scorpio, that is classified information, available only to those of us who pay our subs to the C&CC!

 

[the other tom]

Oh dear someone has upset the 4x4 brigade again..

 

[CliveV]

If this is indeed the David Bellamy, then I am saddened that someone whom I had respect for has just lost it. And I am not referring just to my respect.

To come onto a caravanning Forum and make a pathetic snide comment about "bits of rough" and men's "equipment failing" beggars belief.

Mr Bellamy - you have fallen to far lower standards than I thought possible.

Green laning is NOT what you would like it to be in that warped holier that thou mind of yours.

If you take the trouble to read my response to you on the adjacent thread you will see that I ask for your comments as to why you are so against a small sub-group of vehicles that are only different in ways that make them last longer and have greater abilities.

The real pollution issues are aircraft flights (no tax on aviation fuel - how "green" is that???!!!) and cement production two name just two. The later of which produces more CO2 than all the cars in the world - In fact Cement production produces 1/3 of all the CO2 produced by man.

So even if we took ALL cars of the road, but carried on building it would make naff all difference.

So tell me Mr Bellamy - I haven't seen you on TV for a while.

Do you think jumping on the spurious "Anti 4x4" bandwagon will get you the exposure you need to re-inflate your dwindling cash balance? - Or is it an ego thing?

Whatever your reasoning - I suggest if you REALLY wanted to do something - making smutty remarks like the one above is not the most sensible or intelligent way to go about it..

 

[CliveV]

Oh dear someone has upset the 4x4 brigade again..

Would you not get a bit miffed if the truth was bent to make you look like a planet destroyer?

 

[Lol1]

Chrissie, I have never green laned before, but hope to try it in the future. As I understand it, only a few roads are open to vehicles, it's a small percentage and they are little used. Please try to put yourself in another's position. Someone who is unable to make the trek across the countryside for whatever reason, should you deny that person a chance to experience what others think is their god given right? My wife suffers from arthritis in the spine, it means she cannot walk far, and certainly can't go yomping across fields to get a view that ramblers take for granted. Is that what it is, you have to be physically fit to enjoy our green and pleasant land? Surely getting people into the countryside is a good thing, some local economies depend on it. Like I said, I have not green laned before, but could you tell us, do they always churn up the lanes? There obviously seems to be some animosity between ramblers and green lanners, both have legitimate views on how to enjoy the countryside, surely it's big enough for all, or are the ramblers just being greedy?

 

[Lol1]

If this is indeed the David Bellamy, then I am saddened that someone whom I had respect for has just lost it. And I am not referring just to my respect.

To come onto a caravanning Forum and make a pathetic snide comment about "bits of rough" and men's "equipment failing" beggars belief.

Mr Bellamy - you have fallen to far lower standards than I thought possible.

Green laning is NOT what you would like it to be in that warped holier that thou mind of yours.

If you take the trouble to read my response to you on the adjacent thread you will see that I ask for your comments as to why you are so against a small sub-group of vehicles that are only different in ways that make them last longer and have greater abilities.

The real pollution issues are aircraft flights (no tax on aviation fuel - how "green" is that???!!!) and cement production two name just two. The later of which produces more CO2 than all the cars in the world - In fact Cement production produces 1/3 of all the CO2 produced by man.

So even if we took ALL cars of the road, but carried on building it would make naff all difference.

So tell me Mr Bellamy - I haven't seen you on TV for a while.

Do you think jumping on the spurious "Anti 4x4" bandwagon will get you the exposure you need to re-inflate your dwindling cash balance? - Or is it an ego thing?

Whatever your reasoning - I suggest if you REALLY wanted to do something - making smutty remarks like the one above is not the most sensible or intelligent way to go about it..

I think you might find David Bellamy is probably an ex contributer Clive.

 

[CliveV]

Lol - based upon the facts that BOATS (Byways Open to All Traffic) account for just 5% of all Footpaths,RUPPS,Bridleways and Boats - ie the Ramblers can go on 100% whilst us greenlaners are restricted to just 5% - I will let people decide who is being greedy!

If they have their way the 5% will be further restricted.

 

[LMH]

If this is indeed the David Bellamy, then I am saddened that someone whom I had respect for has just lost it. And I am not referring just to my respect.

To come onto a caravanning Forum and make a pathetic snide comment about "bits of rough" and men's "equipment failing" beggars belief.

Mr Bellamy - you have fallen to far lower standards than I thought possible.

Green laning is NOT what you would like it to be in that warped holier that thou mind of yours.

If you take the trouble to read my response to you on the adjacent thread you will see that I ask for your comments as to why you are so against a small sub-group of vehicles that are only different in ways that make them last longer and have greater abilities.

The real pollution issues are aircraft flights (no tax on aviation fuel - how "green" is that???!!!) and cement production two name just two. The later of which produces more CO2 than all the cars in the world - In fact Cement production produces 1/3 of all the CO2 produced by man.

So even if we took ALL cars of the road, but carried on building it would make naff all difference.

So tell me Mr Bellamy - I haven't seen you on TV for a while.

Do you think jumping on the spurious "Anti 4x4" bandwagon will get you the exposure you need to re-inflate your dwindling cash balance? - Or is it an ego thing?

Whatever your reasoning - I suggest if you REALLY wanted to do something - making smutty remarks like the one above is not the most sensible or intelligent way to go about it..

Totally agree, look at the time it was posted.

 

[gypsy]

Why is if you have a 4x4 it is assumed that you are going to rip the countryside to bits!!!!, I have a Frontera. I use it to Tow my Caravan, because it is a heavy Van, I love my Frontera, there is no way I would abuse it over humps bumps sludge or anything else,So please let it be known I respect the countryside.Mr Bellamy.

Glenice.

 

[sparkes]

It begins to seem that I am the only person on here who does not think 4x4 drivers have a divine right to churn up green lanes and reduce them to dangerous mud-baths. I'm mystified as to why anyone would want to indulge in this activity and certainly cannot understand why it should be treated as an issue of liberty. What about the freedom of the rest of us to enjoy the countryside in peace - does that not count for anything?

As for resigning from the C&CC - why? I seem to recall that Dr Bellamy's predecessor was the Duke of Edinburgh. He certainly has made some pretty absurd statements in his time, but I do not recall mass resignations as a result! There are plenty of issues on which I disagree with David Bellamy's point of view, but he is entitled to that view, which carries no more weight with the C&CC than do those of any other members: his is not a policy making role, he is merely a figurehead, albeit a somewhat more outspoken one than most organisations have.

You have no idea of what you are talking about. Please research the facts before posting your rants.

 

[CliveV]

Why is if you have a 4x4 it is assumed that you are going to rip the countryside to bits!!!!, I have a Frontera. I use it to Tow my Caravan, because it is a heavy Van, I love my Frontera, there is no way I would abuse it over humps bumps sludge or anything else,So please let it be known I respect the countryside.Mr Bellamy.

Glenice.

Well said

 

[sparkes]

Those who wish to contact membership at C&CC can do so via. This address is to someone who can remove the membership.

Debbie.Taggart@campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk

I think all members should be aware that this club is stipulating what you drive and thus what weight max you are allowed to tow. What gives them the right

 

[the other tom]

Would you not get a bit miffed if the truth was bent to make you look like a planet destroyer?

Yes Clive i would indeed, like i said someone has up set the 4x4 brigade. The last time i condemmed someone on this forum my posts where deleted . Thats why i have been so quiet of late .

 

[chrissie2]

Lol, I am not a rambler and certainly not a member of the Ramblers' Association. I am simply someone who enjoys a quiet walk along the lanes (green or otherwise) around where I live.

Some of the unmade up roads are now in a dreadful state, granted not only because of 4x4s, but perhaps even more because of thoughtless motorcyclists.

I would not wish to deny anyone access to the countryside, but I have to say I do not have the impression that most of those who claim to get closer to nature by driving a massive vehicle right through it would be unable to simply get out and walk. In your wife's case, I seriously wonder if being bounced around inside a 4x4 on a rough track, is an experience which will really provide her with much benefit.

 

[Lol1]

I don't intend to bounce her around Crissie, if the going gets rough we will be turning back (they do supply concreted turning areas in the country side don't they?) as I would imagine most others will. I believe, it is partly the skill associated with driving so carefully that attracts people to the pastime and listening to Clive and Steve, believe there to be a real sense of care associated the hobby. There are always exceptions to the rule and it only takes one speed jockey to spoil it for everyone. There again, I bet there are quite a few walkers that wouldn't think twice about emptying their pockets en-route instead of taking their rubbish home with them.

 

[chrissie2]

What rubbish! Where has the C&CC ever stipulated such a thing? Read the magazine, you will see tests (and favourable ones) of 4x4s, reports of C&CC staff members' own excursions with 4x4s, etc, etc. The piece which has provoked all this outrage was simply the opinion of one man, and not endorsed by the Club. You demand the freedom to drive the vehicle of your choice. Cannot David Bellamy have the freedom to express a different view?

 

[sparkes]

Chrissie

I do photography in the country side and cannot walk more than about 1/2 a mile at the moment.

What gives you or Bellamy any right to stop me from seeing the country side, and continuing with my interest which brings please=ure to a lot of people?. If you like walking where there are no cars then stick to the 95% of rights of ways in the country that are not vehicle accessable and leave use to the poltry 5% we have.

Under new legislation of accessability in the UK it will soon be easy to force local council to open up all rights of way to all traffic, as the new rules state that no one should be excluded from their interests. So, one court hearing under their new law and I will be able to drive across anywhere the RA are allowed to walk.

Steve

 

[sparkes]

I realy hope thee C&CC suffer from this. If you read a lot of forums you will find people are resigning their membership all over the place. No club should allow predudice of this sort or condone it, Which they have done by publishing without a disclaimer!

 

[trucker]

Chrissie, I drive a 4x4 however I decided to buy it to pull my caravan and also because I wanted one.

I do not go around churning up lanes as you describe 4x4 drivers do, I use mine on the road. It returns 38mpg deisel against most petrol cars 40mpg.

If you cannot be more specific on 4x4 drivers prahaps you shouldnt comment on them. As for all the green lanes being churned up read Clivev thread only 5% of lanes are used by 4x4 drivers. If other lanes are being churned up in your area that should not be used by 4x4s im sure you would get the full support of the 4x4 green lane gang to put a stop to it.