Parksy
Moderator
Thanks NigelWell saidThe true voice of reason ... couldn't get a job on CT2 could you ???
Such is the nature of internet forums that there are members who joined CT2 because they don't like us much here :0)
Such is the nature of internet forums that there are members who joined CT2 because they don't like us much here :0)
As a Mod on CT2 I would just like to thank Parksy for his considered last post. Like a lot of people I belong to many different forums as they all seem have a different flavour. I have stayed out out of this debate on here but did contribute elsewhere and got my finger bitten off! Although to be fair the PC debate seems to have been even handed and sensible. As an individual Swift owner I would love to see Swift back on CT2, whether that is too much of an ask I don't know, only time will tell.
David
David
An approved member is just that. Members on CT2 don't become approved members until they have made a first post. There is nothing sinister in that its just a method of stopping automatic membership causing spam.
David
Hello everyone, I am phil1041, it has been fascinating to read all the comments on here about me.
To clarify however, No i am not a moderator on CT
No, i have no connection with the Admin, board or whatever of CT, No, i have not been offered any such positions, as has been suggested.
Yes, i do agree with the position taken by CT on the Swift issue.
I do not think it unreasonable to ask Swift to make a contribution (i believe the figure was
Hello everyone, I am phil1041, it has been fascinating to read all the comments on here about me.
To clarify however, No i am not a moderator on CT
No, i have no connection with the Admin, board or whatever of CT, No, i have not been offered any such positions, as has been suggested.
Yes, i do agree with the position taken by CT on the Swift issue.
I do not think it unreasonable to ask Swift to make a contribution (i believe the figure was
To clarify however, No i am not a moderator on CT
No, i have no connection with the Admin, board or whatever of CT, No, i have not been offered any such positions, as has been suggested.
Yes, i do agree with the position taken by CT on the Swift issue.
I do not think it unreasonable to ask Swift to make a contribution (i believe the figure was
I dont own a Swift but have always found the input by them to be invaluable - often being easily related to my own make of caravan.
Forums such as this are fantastic for exchanging views and in my opinion are more or less unique in engaging manufacturers directly with consumers.
Asking Swift to contribute financially is bad move (as has been shown by the reaction). They appear to contribute often, quickly and comprehensively - frequently 'out of hours'.
My own manufacturer does contribute to this and other forums but in nothing like the detail or timeframes that Swift do.
I would have thought that any forum would want to lay down the red carpet for any manufacturer willing to partcipate so readily.
Forums such as this are fantastic for exchanging views and in my opinion are more or less unique in engaging manufacturers directly with consumers.
Asking Swift to contribute financially is bad move (as has been shown by the reaction). They appear to contribute often, quickly and comprehensively - frequently 'out of hours'.
My own manufacturer does contribute to this and other forums but in nothing like the detail or timeframes that Swift do.
I would have thought that any forum would want to lay down the red carpet for any manufacturer willing to partcipate so readily.
i fully sympathise with Swift. any company willing to impart advice freely on a forum is providing a service. this is done usually through choice rather then necessity. so to be asked to donate thousands for the privilege is a bit cheeky to say the least. and then to ban them because they don't want to pay is a bit much.
unfortunately it will only be the forum which looses out in the long run.
unfortunately it will only be the forum which looses out in the long run.
Parksy
Moderator
Thanks for the kind words from David Klyne which I'm flattered to receive from such a highly respected moderator of CT2, much travelled blogger and member of caravan forums.
I think that it had been established that you (Phil 1041) are not a moderator or a member of admin on Caravan Talk but even if you had been your point of view is as valid and welcome as anyone else's.
Obviously the management of Caravan Talk feel that Swift have gained in a commercial sense from forum membership and that is for them and Swifts representatives to discuss with the full knowledge of all the facts which we do not possess.
This forum is hosted by Practical Caravan Magazine which is the UK's leading caravan publication and they are owned by Haymarket Publishing who have an enormous profile in both print and on the internet.
Our administrator and main point of contact with Haymarket is Victoria Hanson who is the brand manager for several Haymarket products so in the sense that her salary is paid by Haymarket yes we are 'subsidised.
Those loyal old sweats who have stuck with us for years will no doubt be quick to tell you that this forum receives precious little technical help to improve the software or upgrade the forum in any way although the rest of the website is quite modern and good.
The forum mainly exists to provide a 'voice' to readers of Practical Caravan magazine and it serves as a platform for experienced caravanners and those who are seeking information to exchange information and to some extent to debate issues surrounding our hobby / pastime.
I know for a fact that 'commercial considerations' are taken into account by companies who run various forums, after all presumably electronic communication will one day be more common than the printed word so no company wants to miss the boat including Haymarket who host this forum. Anyone can see the adverts which are visible as part of this forum and website and one must suppose that these are bought. The disagreement on Caravan Talk seems to me to center around the sums of money involved and in my opinion would be best discussed by those directly involved in private.
Swift and many other caravan manufacturers, dealers, holiday site owners etc pay to advertise in Practical Caravan magazine and if any company who takes the time and trouble to post help and advice here for forum members and magazine readers gains a 'commercial advantage'as a result I'd say good luck to them, so they should!
I think that it had been established that you (Phil 1041) are not a moderator or a member of admin on Caravan Talk but even if you had been your point of view is as valid and welcome as anyone else's.
Obviously the management of Caravan Talk feel that Swift have gained in a commercial sense from forum membership and that is for them and Swifts representatives to discuss with the full knowledge of all the facts which we do not possess.
This forum is hosted by Practical Caravan Magazine which is the UK's leading caravan publication and they are owned by Haymarket Publishing who have an enormous profile in both print and on the internet.
Our administrator and main point of contact with Haymarket is Victoria Hanson who is the brand manager for several Haymarket products so in the sense that her salary is paid by Haymarket yes we are 'subsidised.
Those loyal old sweats who have stuck with us for years will no doubt be quick to tell you that this forum receives precious little technical help to improve the software or upgrade the forum in any way although the rest of the website is quite modern and good.
The forum mainly exists to provide a 'voice' to readers of Practical Caravan magazine and it serves as a platform for experienced caravanners and those who are seeking information to exchange information and to some extent to debate issues surrounding our hobby / pastime.
I know for a fact that 'commercial considerations' are taken into account by companies who run various forums, after all presumably electronic communication will one day be more common than the printed word so no company wants to miss the boat including Haymarket who host this forum. Anyone can see the adverts which are visible as part of this forum and website and one must suppose that these are bought. The disagreement on Caravan Talk seems to me to center around the sums of money involved and in my opinion would be best discussed by those directly involved in private.
Swift and many other caravan manufacturers, dealers, holiday site owners etc pay to advertise in Practical Caravan magazine and if any company who takes the time and trouble to post help and advice here for forum members and magazine readers gains a 'commercial advantage'as a result I'd say good luck to them, so they should!
Hello Parksy
Couldn't agree with you more, particularly your last paragraph.
It would be interesting, however, if say Swift did not advertise as heavily as they do with Haymarket, as to what the stance would be with them gaining a commercial advantage via this forum without making any contribution though wouldn't it?
Phil.
Couldn't agree with you more, particularly your last paragraph.
It would be interesting, however, if say Swift did not advertise as heavily as they do with Haymarket, as to what the stance would be with them gaining a commercial advantage via this forum without making any contribution though wouldn't it?
Phil.
"Swift and many other caravan manufacturers, dealers, holiday site owners etc pay to advertise in Practical Caravan magazine and if any company who takes the time and trouble to post help and advice here for forum members and magazine readers gains a 'commercial advantage'as a result I'd say good luck to them, so they should!"
Thats an excellent point!
Thats an excellent point!
Parksy
Moderator
None of us contribute as members and there is nothing to stop other caravan manufacturers or indeed any company from posting on forums to help their customers Phil.
Surely they would gain just as much in terms of commercial advantage but the real winners would be caravan buyers and users and those who buy peripheral products.
Bailey also post on forums including this one as do other manufacturers of products and service providers.
Read Caravans who are the Practical Caravan Dealers of the Year overall winners ;0) have taken part in this debate and if a caravan buyer decides to have a look around a dealers who according to industry experts are reputable honest and professional when it's time to choose the next caravan and they remember when Reads helped somebody on the forum with advice about the best way to look after a caravan then good!
It might one day encourage all caravan dealers to be a bit more helpful and it raises standards all round.
There are many from commerce who have helped forum members and I apologise for not listing them all but we owe them our thanks.
Moderator Edit:
I meant to mention Gary from Arc Systems who posts on several forums to help members with gas and heater problems
Surely they would gain just as much in terms of commercial advantage but the real winners would be caravan buyers and users and those who buy peripheral products.
Bailey also post on forums including this one as do other manufacturers of products and service providers.
Read Caravans who are the Practical Caravan Dealers of the Year overall winners ;0) have taken part in this debate and if a caravan buyer decides to have a look around a dealers who according to industry experts are reputable honest and professional when it's time to choose the next caravan and they remember when Reads helped somebody on the forum with advice about the best way to look after a caravan then good!
It might one day encourage all caravan dealers to be a bit more helpful and it raises standards all round.
There are many from commerce who have helped forum members and I apologise for not listing them all but we owe them our thanks.
Moderator Edit:
I meant to mention Gary from Arc Systems who posts on several forums to help members with gas and heater problems
Yes, i understand what you are saying, however, don't forget that you have the luxury of saying this from within a forum paid for and run by a large company, ie Haymarket.
All i am saying is, in respect of CT, it has to be paid for, i do not know the numbers, but i will repeat, i do not think it unreasonable to seek a contribution form a company like Swift, that clearly, in my opinion, gains a commercial advantage from its continued precence on a forum.
Phil.
All i am saying is, in respect of CT, it has to be paid for, i do not know the numbers, but i will repeat, i do not think it unreasonable to seek a contribution form a company like Swift, that clearly, in my opinion, gains a commercial advantage from its continued precence on a forum.
Phil.
Phil 1041 said
"All i am saying is, in respect of CT, it has to be paid for, i do not know the numbers, but i will repeat, i do not think it unreasonable to seek a contribution form a company like Swift, that clearly, in my opinion, gains a commercial advantage from its continued precence on a forum".
All opinions are valid but I suspect in the final analysis yours is probably flawed in regard to exactly why Swift (and other manufacturers) contribute to these forums.
Historically the sole reason for Swift's presence on these forums is dealing with Owners complaints or questions in the eye of the public.
Swift could choose to do nothing. BUT they put their money where their mouths are and seek to help customers who have a "failed "product.
It may be argued that the failure of the Swift products is good enough reason not to buy??
However Swift have been humble enough to admit the odd shortcoming and offer help and support publicly to resolve their customers problems which just happen to get aired on the forums. There is no commercial advantage at all, in fact the opposite is true. Hanging out your dirty washing in public comes to mind.
Swift are paying salaries of at least 3 people who regularly speak for them on the forums. Isn't that good enough and to be applauded?
Keep up the technical and caring support Peter Smith and all Swift employees.
Cheers
Dustydog
"All i am saying is, in respect of CT, it has to be paid for, i do not know the numbers, but i will repeat, i do not think it unreasonable to seek a contribution form a company like Swift, that clearly, in my opinion, gains a commercial advantage from its continued precence on a forum".
All opinions are valid but I suspect in the final analysis yours is probably flawed in regard to exactly why Swift (and other manufacturers) contribute to these forums.
Historically the sole reason for Swift's presence on these forums is dealing with Owners complaints or questions in the eye of the public.
Swift could choose to do nothing. BUT they put their money where their mouths are and seek to help customers who have a "failed "product.
It may be argued that the failure of the Swift products is good enough reason not to buy??
However Swift have been humble enough to admit the odd shortcoming and offer help and support publicly to resolve their customers problems which just happen to get aired on the forums. There is no commercial advantage at all, in fact the opposite is true. Hanging out your dirty washing in public comes to mind.
Swift are paying salaries of at least 3 people who regularly speak for them on the forums. Isn't that good enough and to be applauded?
Keep up the technical and caring support Peter Smith and all Swift employees.
Cheers
Dustydog
Hi Dustydog
I am willing to bet you are a Swift owner. However,
Actually, i could point you to several instances where, in my opinion, Swift, and others, have gained a clear commercial advantage from their presence on the CT forum, posters have openly admitted this in their responses to Swift.
Phil.
I am willing to bet you are a Swift owner. However,
Actually, i could point you to several instances where, in my opinion, Swift, and others, have gained a clear commercial advantage from their presence on the CT forum, posters have openly admitted this in their responses to Swift.
Phil.
I think that you will find that from his posting above Dusty owns a Bailey as I do.
I agree with you that Swift maybe have gained a commercial advantage but that is only from showing that they care about customer relations and helping people when they have problems with one of their products despite the posts are of complaints.
To then be charged for helping people beggars belief although I realise that yourself and the Admin of CT will never see that. Obviously some come from different planets.
Phil
We have never on any forum advertised or promoted our products, we offer a technical and customer support role only and would like to continue in this manner,
Andy
We have never on any forum advertised or promoted our products, we offer a technical and customer support role only and would like to continue in this manner,
Andy
Andy
Perhaps we should all cut our losses and stick with Practical Caravan or T&T.
Nobody is on the make on either as far as I know
JohnKS
Perhaps we should all cut our losses and stick with Practical Caravan or T&T.
Nobody is on the make on either as far as I know
JohnKS
Andy
Yes, if you were being asked for those figures then i would have some sympathy with your argument, however, those are not the figures quoted by CT.
As an outsider, obviously i have no idea who is being truthfull here, all i know is that CT say they asked you for, i believe it was
Yes, if you were being asked for those figures then i would have some sympathy with your argument, however, those are not the figures quoted by CT.
As an outsider, obviously i have no idea who is being truthfull here, all i know is that CT say they asked you for, i believe it was
I am afraid that phil 1041 has a particular bee in his bonnet about The Swift Group and seems to take every oppertunity to deride them. I do hope he gets over it before it takes over his life entirely.
Steve W
Steve W
I don't own a Swift, nor am I ever likely to, being a dyed-in-the-wool classic Royale owner, but I just thought I'd put my two-pennorth in.
As far as I can see, Swift have never ever promoted any of their products on this forum.In their position now, I'd stick two fingers up at CT2, whatever their response.
As far as I can see, Swift have never ever promoted any of their products on this forum.In their position now, I'd stick two fingers up at CT2, whatever their response.
So you agree with me that they have gained a commercial advantage? and you then presumably think that should be free?
So which planet are you on then Lord Braykewynde
Andy,
I would hope that in view of recent events, that Swift never go back to the Caravan Talk forum. I like many others will pitch our vans on other forums, we will find you on those when we need you. Also there have been offers from people to set up a dedicated Swift forum, I sincerely hope Swift will take a serious look at that possibility?
I will admit that I was influenced by the CT2 forum into buying my new Swift Challenger. This was only after I was put off by all the problems that I read about a West country manufacturered product, that was initially my intended purchase.
I would hope that in view of recent events, that Swift never go back to the Caravan Talk forum. I like many others will pitch our vans on other forums, we will find you on those when we need you. Also there have been offers from people to set up a dedicated Swift forum, I sincerely hope Swift will take a serious look at that possibility?
I will admit that I was influenced by the CT2 forum into buying my new Swift Challenger. This was only after I was put off by all the problems that I read about a West country manufacturered product, that was initially my intended purchase.
Steve W
Really?? how wrong you are, this is purely a matter of principle, and as the prospective owner of a brand new Challenger 580,(god, you must be right, it has taken over my life) why would i want to derride Swift Group then?
Phil.
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