Ballantines Scotch here Parksy.
Only had half a glass though. My post in the main is serious.
Swift and others should pay a nominal something to forums.
Only had half a glass though. My post in the main is serious.
Swift and others should pay a nominal something to forums.
Parksy
Moderator
I think it works both ways, and Swift lost a sale with me.
When I had terrible damp in my 2-year old Bailey, I considered get rid of it and buying a swift or coachman instead.
I did a review of the sorts of issues coming up on CT2 by manufacturer and decided that on balance I was best sticking with my current caravan. So despite the level of after sales care from swift on the forum, I wasn't persuaded that their caravans were any better than the Bailey I already had.
When I had terrible damp in my 2-year old Bailey, I considered get rid of it and buying a swift or coachman instead.
I did a review of the sorts of issues coming up on CT2 by manufacturer and decided that on balance I was best sticking with my current caravan. So despite the level of after sales care from swift on the forum, I wasn't persuaded that their caravans were any better than the Bailey I already had.
A customer has an issue, goes on the forum and complains, the customer gets their poorly built caravan fixed, Swift due to their input on the forum come across as being very helpful, another customer reads the topic and thinks Swift are the bees knees, Swift sells another caravan and the forum gets nothing out of it.
That customer has an issue, goes on the forum and complains, the customer gets their poorly built caravan fixed, Swift due to their input on the forum come across as being very helpful, another customer reads the topic and thinks Swift are the bees knees, Swift sells another caravan and the forum gets nothing out of it.
That customer has an issue, goes on the forum and complains, the customer gets their poorly built caravan fixed, Swift due to their input on the forum come across as being very helpful, another customer reads the topic and thinks Swift are the bees knees, Swift sells another caravan and the forum gets nothing out of it.
Anyone see a pattern emerging.
That customer has an issue, goes on the forum and complains, the customer gets their poorly built caravan fixed, Swift due to their input on the forum come across as being very helpful, another customer reads the topic and thinks Swift are the bees knees, Swift sells another caravan and the forum gets nothing out of it.
That customer has an issue, goes on the forum and complains, the customer gets their poorly built caravan fixed, Swift due to their input on the forum come across as being very helpful, another customer reads the topic and thinks Swift are the bees knees, Swift sells another caravan and the forum gets nothing out of it.
Anyone see a pattern emerging.
A customer has an issue, goes on the forum and complains, the customer gets their poorly built caravan fixed, Swift due to their input on the forum come across as being very helpful, another customer reads the topic and thinks Swift are absolute rubbish poorly built caravans. Swift lose another caravan sale and the forum gets nothing out of it.
A customer has an issue, goes on the forum and complains, the customer gets their poorly built caravan fixed, Swift due to their input on the forum come across as being very helpful, another customer reads the topic and thinks Swift are absolute rubbish poorly built caravans. Swift lose another caravan sale and the forum gets nothing out of it.
A customer has an issue, goes on the forum and complains, the customer gets their poorly built caravan fixed, Swift due to their input on the forum come across as being very helpful, another customer reads the topic and thinks Swift are absolute rubbish poorly built caravans. Swift lose another caravan sale and the forum gets nothing out of it.
Dobbie
I see another pattern emerging??
Cheers
Dustydog
A customer has an issue, goes on the forum and complains, the customer gets their poorly built caravan fixed, Swift due to their input on the forum come across as being very helpful, another customer reads the topic and thinks Swift are absolute rubbish poorly built caravans. Swift lose another caravan sale and the forum gets nothing out of it.
A customer has an issue, goes on the forum and complains, the customer gets their poorly built caravan fixed, Swift due to their input on the forum come across as being very helpful, another customer reads the topic and thinks Swift are absolute rubbish poorly built caravans. Swift lose another caravan sale and the forum gets nothing out of it.
Dobbie
I see another pattern emerging??
Cheers
Dustydog
Anyone see a pattern emerging.
Yes ,you sound like Phil ;O)
Try this , Swift builds perfect caravans, everyone raves about them on the forum, people think they are the bees knees,Swift sells another caravan and the forum gets nothing out of it.
Whats the difference?
Brian
Yes ,you sound like Phil ;O)
Try this , Swift builds perfect caravans, everyone raves about them on the forum, people think they are the bees knees,Swift sells another caravan and the forum gets nothing out of it.
Whats the difference?
Brian
Whatever pasttern emerges the only loser on CT will be the members who will no longer have access to the wealth of knowledge offered by Swift.
Parksy has quite correctly said there are two sides to this debate but I for one am still unclear exactly how much money is involved.
Parksy has quite correctly said there are two sides to this debate but I for one am still unclear exactly how much money is involved.
Thank you to both previous contributors, you have helped make the case stronger.
The pattern emerging in all of the scenario's is "Commercial Gain" in every instance Swift benefits financially from their involvement on a forum.
Would they be allowed to go to the Caravan Show and put up a stand claiming "We will only be offering advice" and not have to pay? No!
The pattern emerging in all of the scenario's is "Commercial Gain" in every instance Swift benefits financially from their involvement on a forum.
Would they be allowed to go to the Caravan Show and put up a stand claiming "We will only be offering advice" and not have to pay? No!
I sort of agree about a commercial advantage, but as a previous poster has said it can also work the other way, the majority of the post are negative with the issues and problems people have with the vans.
I think the major sticking point here is the sums being asked. If the figures quoted above are correct, the someone is taking the proverbial and lokking for a serious profit. The quarterly charge is big enough for what supposed commercial gain there may be.
I think the major sticking point here is the sums being asked. If the figures quoted above are correct, the someone is taking the proverbial and lokking for a serious profit. The quarterly charge is big enough for what supposed commercial gain there may be.
How are the members going to vote, they don't own the forum, they don't contribute financially to the forum, they reallly don't have a say in how the forum is run..
There is nothing stopping anyone belonging to several forums, if people feel strongly enough then they have a choice.
The only way they can vote is with their feet and not go on Caravan Talk.
There is nothing stopping anyone belonging to several forums, if people feel strongly enough then they have a choice.
The only way they can vote is with their feet and not go on Caravan Talk.
It seems to me that:
1. the forum needs to make money to pay for its costs
2. a forum without answers isn't going to be successful
3. members get the benefit of technical advice
4. A forum is a good place to advertise
So a forum should get income from its advertisers and members, it should reward (pay or advertising or ...) quality contributors. Advertising should be encouraged and paid for.
Unfortunately us members, including me, often seem reluctant to dip our hands in our pockets for the price of a magazine.
1. the forum needs to make money to pay for its costs
2. a forum without answers isn't going to be successful
3. members get the benefit of technical advice
4. A forum is a good place to advertise
So a forum should get income from its advertisers and members, it should reward (pay or advertising or ...) quality contributors. Advertising should be encouraged and paid for.
Unfortunately us members, including me, often seem reluctant to dip our hands in our pockets for the price of a magazine.
If it is such a "commercial advantage" to partake in CT2, may I ask the following questions ??
1. Why has it only just arisen?? 1 month after CT2 "introduced" "Trade+" ... Swift have been there years.
2. Why are Swift being singled out ?? Al-Ko, Sargents, TradeTech, Care-a-van, etc etc don't seem to have a problem. Either they have not been asked, or they are all paying
1. Why has it only just arisen?? 1 month after CT2 "introduced" "Trade+" ... Swift have been there years.
2. Why are Swift being singled out ?? Al-Ko, Sargents, TradeTech, Care-a-van, etc etc don't seem to have a problem. Either they have not been asked, or they are all paying
Nice to see CT compares itself to a commercial venture such as a caravan show.
I thought they just wanted to cover their costs.
I thought they just wanted to cover their costs.
Quote Dobbie .. "Anyone see a pattern emerging".
Yep, same old same ... 'commercial advantage". I wish I had a quid for how often that's been said by the few ;O)
The few who are posting by trying to blackmail Swift are beginning to sound like clones :O)
Yep, same old same ... 'commercial advantage". I wish I had a quid for how often that's been said by the few ;O)
The few who are posting by trying to blackmail Swift are beginning to sound like clones :O)
Parksy
Moderator
To answer Dobbie's question 'How are the members going to vote?'
there is an online opinion poll on Caravan Talk
http://www.caravantalk.org.uk/topic/31727-who-wants-swift-to-stay/
To be honest nothing posted on this forum can have any effect on how other forums are run, Swift are welcome here on Practical Caravan forum.
there is an online opinion poll on Caravan Talk
http://www.caravantalk.org.uk/topic/31727-who-wants-swift-to-stay/
To be honest nothing posted on this forum can have any effect on how other forums are run, Swift are welcome here on Practical Caravan forum.
Parksy
Moderator
I've just seen the latest post from Dobbie
I don't want to start deleting posts or stifling debate but I'm not going to allow a slanging match to develop.
A bit of harmless banter is not an insult, I understand that feelings are running high but let's keep a sense of proportion - nobody died.
I don't want to start deleting posts or stifling debate but I'm not going to allow a slanging match to develop.
A bit of harmless banter is not an insult, I understand that feelings are running high but let's keep a sense of proportion - nobody died.
Nope, i have no desire whatsoever to be a moderator on any forum thank you.I think Phil wants to be a moderator on that forum.
Phil.
I voted, as have 109 people - and guess what, 100 want Swift to stay on the Caravan Talk forum and 9 don't.
I'm glad all members have the opportunity to vote on Caravan Talk, if not to contribute further to the debate. Makes you wonder why those apparently new members to the PCV forum who support Swift being banned unless they pay up have joined this forum where Swift is still welcome.
I'm glad all members have the opportunity to vote on Caravan Talk, if not to contribute further to the debate. Makes you wonder why those apparently new members to the PCV forum who support Swift being banned unless they pay up have joined this forum where Swift is still welcome.
101 -v- 9 as I've just voted YES.
Lord B . There was a song by Judy Collins:- Bring in the Clowns. Did you mean Clones or Clowns?? LOL.
Cheers
Dustydog
Lord B . There was a song by Judy Collins:- Bring in the Clowns. Did you mean Clones or Clowns?? LOL.
Cheers
Dustydog
There are contributors to this thread who are making claims about information which they clearly have no direct knowledge.
We do not have the whole of the information regarding the circumstances of discussions between Swift and CT therefore we cannot make an analysis and draw any accurate conclusion. Nor are we likely to have all the information as it is a private matter between two organisations.
The only information we have that seems to be authoritative is that CT have asked Swift to make some form of payment for the use they make of the CT forum, and that Swift have declined. As a consequence CT have withdrawn Swifts permission to post on the forum.
It is strange that such draconian action has occurred, which suggests to me that this is an issue that has been under discussion for some time between the two parties, and clearly no satisfactory compromise has been reached.
If it has not been under protracted discussion then it demonstrates the naivety of one of the parties.
Irrespective of the actual details and claims between the two parties, A big issue has been made out of the concept of 'commercial gain'
It is my understanding that the basis of CT is to allow end-users to opportunity to post issues about caravanning. This will inevitably involve some people airing complaints and problems. As far as I know some manufactures sometimes respond to these issues, and that is the important feature of the manufacture interaction, it is response rather than initiating a thread. That is not advertising.
Will an organisation 'gain' from exposure, yes it will, but them that happens each time a manufacture or product is mentioned, so realistically every forum user that mentions a name or product is providing some gain even if the actual manufacture does not respond!
If one manufacture is seen as getting more exposure because they respond to end-user comments, then it is the other manufactures loss because they don't make the effort and use of the forum.
I sincerely hope that both parties can come to a satisfactory resolution that allows the continued public interaction between end-users and manufactures, as it represents a very rich source of information for manufactures to use and identify real life problems with the products they design, and thus will help them to design out these problems so we can all get more reliable products and enjoyment from caravanning.
We do not have the whole of the information regarding the circumstances of discussions between Swift and CT therefore we cannot make an analysis and draw any accurate conclusion. Nor are we likely to have all the information as it is a private matter between two organisations.
The only information we have that seems to be authoritative is that CT have asked Swift to make some form of payment for the use they make of the CT forum, and that Swift have declined. As a consequence CT have withdrawn Swifts permission to post on the forum.
It is strange that such draconian action has occurred, which suggests to me that this is an issue that has been under discussion for some time between the two parties, and clearly no satisfactory compromise has been reached.
If it has not been under protracted discussion then it demonstrates the naivety of one of the parties.
Irrespective of the actual details and claims between the two parties, A big issue has been made out of the concept of 'commercial gain'
It is my understanding that the basis of CT is to allow end-users to opportunity to post issues about caravanning. This will inevitably involve some people airing complaints and problems. As far as I know some manufactures sometimes respond to these issues, and that is the important feature of the manufacture interaction, it is response rather than initiating a thread. That is not advertising.
Will an organisation 'gain' from exposure, yes it will, but them that happens each time a manufacture or product is mentioned, so realistically every forum user that mentions a name or product is providing some gain even if the actual manufacture does not respond!
If one manufacture is seen as getting more exposure because they respond to end-user comments, then it is the other manufactures loss because they don't make the effort and use of the forum.
I sincerely hope that both parties can come to a satisfactory resolution that allows the continued public interaction between end-users and manufactures, as it represents a very rich source of information for manufactures to use and identify real life problems with the products they design, and thus will help them to design out these problems so we can all get more reliable products and enjoyment from caravanning.
John L,
That was very well put indeed.
Although, that is my opinion of course - to coin a well used phrase on here
That was very well put indeed.
Although, that is my opinion of course - to coin a well used phrase on here
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