Carver Cascade Water Heater - Cascade 2

Aug 15, 2013
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Hello and help!
We have just bought ourselves our first caravan a Compass Rallye GTE and we are converted but....................we have a problem with our water heater. Basically we do not know what to do with it to a) fill it b) to heat it and c) anything else that may have to be done with it!!! Can someone maybe walk us through the procedure please, here's hoping, fingers crossed
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Mar 14, 2005
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Hello Hutchy,

Welcome to the world of caravanning. I hope you realise that having bought a 19 year old caravan, it is very likely that some things may be faulty or at least in need of some TLC or professional attention.

For you and your families safety it's wise to have both the gas and electrics professionally checked for soundness and correct operation.

From the symptoms you describe, we know the pump is working as you can get water from the hot tap, but no water from the cold tap, that suggests you may have pump system that relies on micro switches in each individual tap to turn the pump on, and they may have failed in the cold tap.

As to the Cascade 2 water heater, If you look on this web site

http://arcsystems.biz/
you will find a copy of the instruction manual which will I am sure help.
 
Aug 15, 2013
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Sir Sproket
ooooo thank you will get on it right now
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I have looked and I am still unsure of how to actually fill the "tank". I do have cold water coming through the hot tap and nothing coming through the cold tap. How do I know that the water from the hot tap is coming from the "tank"? Sorry if I appear hard work but to be honest I am frightened I am going to cause damage to the system.
 
Aug 15, 2013
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Thank you Prof John L
I did actually expect very little to work but I have been very lucky thankfully. I have a feeling the water heater does work but I am afraid it is me not understanding instructions. I have looked at the arcsystems page but still no joy. If cold water is coming out of the hot tap does that mean it is first running through the water heater. I don't want to switch the heater on incase it is empty as I know that would cause problems
 
G

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Arc Systems here! as John says you may well have a micro switched pump so open a tap that works the pump just enough to get the pump running, then open a tap that does not have water flowing and see if water comes from it now. If it does then you will most likely need to change the offending mirco switch in that tap head, however, first check the wiring connections under the sink for corroision.
As for the Cascade, the good news is, 1994 is by far the best vintage for this heater! don't no why but they certainly have less problems than all other years!!...any ideas John?
Heres my overview of the Cascade which should answer the rest...

The Carver Cascade 2 is a 9 litre storage water heater, which
when running on gas will heat the water to 65deg c in about 45 minutes. On 240V
mains assuming it has this facility, the time can be somewhat longer or shorter
depending on the wattage (630w 3amp to 840w 5amp) of the element fitted, you
can use both gas and electric together for faster times.

To operate the gas there is a wall switch or a switch within a main control
panel, either way both have three lights green, amber and red. When switched on
the green lights, (water tank must be full, i.e. water coming from hot taps),
if it stays on after about 8 seconds then the gas has lit and all is well. If
the green is joined by the red then you may have a problem, but if the gas
bottle has just been changed then air in the pipes will have to be bled through
by repeating the above 2 or 3 times. Once lit, and it should light without any
pops and bangs, (this would indicate it needs a service), the heater looks
after itself and gives constant hot water. Any problems will cause it to shut
down safely and show the red light. Forget the amber light, it's to show low
voltage and won't light unless the voltage is so low the heater and everything
else packed up long since, though you may notice it 'flash' as the switch is
turned on or off.

The 240v immersion heater if fitted is totally separate, and lies behind a
white plastic box on the inboard end of the water tank. It is controlled by a
switch, often close by and at floor level, but again sometimes as part of a remote
control panel. The switch has a red light to show it's 'on', not that it's
working, this will be determined by the water getting hot. If it does not then
it may have 'tripped' Two types exist, early circa 1990 are non-re-settable but
are repairable. Later models have a Red button on the end of the plastic box
which is sometimes behind a little flap. Switch off mains, and press to reset.

Other faults concerning the gas side very often come down to the 'Burner
Module'. This handy little unit contains the burner, gas valve and all the
electronics which control it and is accessible from behind the cover outside of
the van. In the event things go wrong it's a 5 minute job to replace it, with a
new or serviced exchange unit. One other safety device is a wax filled
'fusible' plug, this again is behind the outer cover and shows itself as a 13
mm nut set in the fins above the burner. The wax will melt if things get too
hot allowing hot water from the tank to spray over the burner and put the flame
out. This will render things safe but will require a new module because it's
control circuitry is faulty. However given if the fuse 'blows' without the
water apparently getting to hot then replacing the plug will be sufficient. The
point to note here is that over time the wax in the plug degrades or the
threads leak, at the very least allowing water to seep onto the burner causing
it to rust and eventually will still require replacement of the whole burner
module.

Further problems that come to light in spring is the discovery of frost damage
to the water tank, the non-return valve which is part of the cold water inlet
and other plastic fittings. Failing to drain the heater when there is a chance
of temperatures dropping below freezing can be very expensive to repair and
should be avoided by removing the drain bung and allowing the heater to drain
completely. Later models have a valve above the drain hole in the top left
corner of the flue cowl, these have a 'toggle' showing that when turned a ¼ in
any direction will allow air into the tank and assist the draining. Older
models still have the valve but the flue cowl needs to be removed and the valve
end pulled to open it, in this case opening all taps in the van will do much
the same thing. It is most important that the drain bung is then only placed
back into the hole and not screwed in, any water left in the system can then
drain away.

Frost damage to the tank will be obvious by the leaking water from the damaged
seal, the damaged non-return valve quite often will prevent water coming from
the hot taps although the cold water flow will be fine. Other fittings are
often cracked by the pressure of the frozen water and will leak on refilling
the system.
 
Aug 15, 2013
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Oh my goodness Gary my eyes are burning at the minute as I have been online all night looking for solutions so I will once again read your information in the morning and I am going to give all ideas a bash over the weekend. I do though have to say my tap is a mixer tap so that in itself is a bit of a problem isn't it? I am in no way being or wanting to appear a defeatist but I do want to make sure I am understanding all of you lovely people's instructions correctly.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Hello Gary,

In line with ISO 9001, there were continual small improvements made to Carver products throughout their production runs, and that process is still true to day though Carver are not involved with touring caravan heating any more.
Occasionally there were step changes, where a suite of changes would be introduced, and it might mean some new components could not be used on older models, (like wall switch cables etc).
I'm Not sure, but was 94 when the temperature sensor bimetalic swich was changed to SS thermistor , which would mean the PCB and wall switch were changed. If that is the case then the flame sensing would have changed from passive negative ion detection to a more robust half wave flame diode rectified detection, and a number of other contol tweeks aimed to improve reliability.
But that would mean that 94 and all subsequent production would have exhibited the same levels of improved reliability.
 
Oct 30, 2009
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hutchy444 said:
I do though have to say my tap is a mixer tap so that in itself is a bit of a problem isn't it? I am in no way being or wanting to appear a defeatist but I do want to make sure I am understanding all of you lovely people's instructions correctly.
hi, just because the tap is a mixer does not really make much difference, if it has two knobs, as each one would have a switch one for hot one for cold ect, If the tap only has one knob (or lever) like the ones fitted to vans of a much later vintage it is more likely to have a pressure system, with a regulator valve like the truma heater.
question how many taps are in the van ie kitchen and washroom!! if there is more than one, do they have the same fault!!!
it is not clear from your decription which system is used but in any event Gary is the man with the knowlege to help,
 
Aug 15, 2013
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Hi Colin
The tap has 2 knobs, but what I am unsure of is how Gary has suggested to run the hot then the cold but I wouldn't know when the cold was coming through if the hot was already running. I am sorry if I sound really stupid and not getting it but I am really trying. There are taps in the loo a hot and cold mixer again with 2 knobs along with a shower with again hot and cold (2 knobs). I have not attempted the taps in the "bathroom" as I was not even going to use them at all.
Thank you for your time in responding by the way
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Parksy

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Nov 12, 2009
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Turn off all the taps and then turn on the hot tap (red) which is furthest away from the pump and boiler, usually the shower or wash basin hot tap.
When (cold) water flows freely the air will have been purged from the system and the boiler will be full. Turn off the hot and turn on the cold, this will take less time to purge with no boiler to fill first.
Check for leaks.
If all is well conect the lpg and switch on the immersion heater, as described earlier by Gary.
If the green light indicates that all is well and the burner has lit, after about 15 minutes turn on the hot tap and you should have hot water.
 
Oct 30, 2009
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hi hutchy44, I think what Gary was refering to is testing the system while still cold. using the other taps, as far I am aware you have only tried the kitchen ones, with the water container full, pump in and system charged (as fas as you can see) try all the other taps both hot and cold, to see if water comes out of both taps in turn, it may take a while to fill the system with spluttering ect before water comes out of the taps.
once you have established that the other taps work!!! "if they dont there is another fault" (blocked pipe ect)
turn on one of the other cold taps (in the washroom) and while this is running turn on (the cold tap only) in the kitchen, if water now comes out of this tap, it shows water is being delivered to the said tap, via the now pressurised system "because the washroom tap micro switch is running the pump" if you now turn off the wash room tap and the water stops in the kitchen even though the tap is still on, it shows the problem is the micro switch on that tap," because turning off the washroom tap stops the pump. see!!
try this test first before moving on to something more complicated like turning on the boiler, besides you need to know what works and what dosen't anyway.
if you are not sure at any stage jusk ask!!!!!!! we are here to help,
 
Mar 21, 2008
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Hi Hutchy,

Normally, when setting up, after filling the aquaroll and connecting the pump you switch the hot tap on (with the water heater switched off) to purge the system of air and to fill the hot water tank.

You should hear some wheezing, gurgling and spitting coming from the tap before a steady flow of water. When you get that steady flow it means that the air is gone and the hot water tank and pipes are full of water - you can then switch on the water heater and, after 20 minutes or so, enjoy hot water!

If you switch on the water heater with the tank empty you can trip the thermostat and then you'll only get cold water! There is a button on the end of the water tank you can press to reset it if this happens.

If there's water coming out of the hot tap but not the cold then it's likely to be a faulty microswitch on the cold tap - try another cold tap or try switching on the cold tap with the hot tap on - to get water to run out of the tap you need two things:

The tap needs to be open, and
The pump needs to be running (courtesy of a microswitch)

As long as any one microswitch is "on" the pump will be running and water should flow out of all open taps.

Hope this helps.
 
Aug 15, 2013
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Hi Colin
You are exactly right. The cold tap works when the bathroom cold tap runs but as soon as I turn off the bathroom washbasin tap the kitchen sink tap stops. So it is a "micro switch" problem. Is there a solution I can try myself without going to a proffesional or do I have to live without cold water in the kitchen area?
Thank you also John, Gary, Parksy and Sprocket
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Aug 25, 2013
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Hi. Please forgive me as I am a newbie so hope it's ok to add to an existing thread on the same subject.
I have adopted my sister's 20+ year old Lunar Clubman which has sat unused for about 2 years. My question is related to the Carver Cascade water heater.
I initially noticed that water was leaking from the drain plug even when fully screwed in so replaced that no problem. That then led to a new leak which appears to be coming from the cold water inlet valve (can someone confirm I have understood correctly - the valve that enters the bottom right corner when looking from INSIDE the van is the cold water inlet?). On attempting to unscrew it from the housing it snapped so there is a section of valve left inside the housing. From a brief bit of research it seems this is not too uncommon but I have not found a solution so far. I would be really grateful for any guidance as I'm keen to learn & have a go at fixing these relatively minor problems & save money for getting the professionals to do what I can't!

Many thanks.
 
Jun 23, 2015
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Please can someone advise on my problem? I have the cascade 2 GE water heater, when i open the cold water taps I get cold water but nothing happens when i open the hot water taps, I have tried the kitchen, the bathroom and shower taps. I have also tried turning on the cold tap so the water pump is running and then opening a separate hot tap while the pump runs but still nothing. The caravan is 1992. the heater fires up (turned off immediately as did not want to break it) I have only just purchased the van and it looks like it had been overwintered as the drain pug on the outside was open, I have now closed this but I am really confused and have a trip planned on Thursday - Please help regards Ian Just noticed its the GE Model and wondered f it has t be on 240v mains??
 

Damian

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Mar 14, 2005
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There is a non return valve on the cold water inlet to the water heater, which has failed and needs replacing, which may involve removing the heater depending on room available to do it.
It is a delicate operation as the heater is easily damaged if the wrong way of changing the valve is used.
Better to get a mobile engineer to do it for you.
Don't either gas or electric until you have this fixed as you will cause severe damage.
 
Apr 17, 2016
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Hi, I am new to caravaning and have a related issue, I have just bought my first van, a 1995 Abi award Globestar. We have a carver cascade 2 system. We have no running water at all, the pump is working outside we can hear it running. I emptied the filter out so I can see inside the cap, at first it didnt fill up with water but when I loosened the cap it did fill up so I tightened the cap. I can ear the heater tank fill with water and gets warm, I have tried the mixer taps in bathroom and kitchen but nothing at all comes through. Also the carver control panel lit up when we first bought it but now has no lights coming on. Any help appreciated.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Hi mwheaton, and welcome to the forum.

Firstly, if you look on

http://arcsystems.biz/manuals/Cascade2.PDF
You will find a copy of the instructions for the Cascade Rapide, which in terms of the way to fill and use it will be good, but you may find you have a different wall switch.

But based on your description, and assuming what you tell us is accurate, You tell us the heater fills up, and gets warm. IF you cannot get any water through your taps then that suggests there is a problem with the pipes or taps after the heater.

You then tell us the heater worked once, but now is apparently dead with NO lights. There are no normal operations that would cause this, so I am led to suspect a supply fuse may have blown. This suggests there is a fault with the heater or its supply. but which is impossible to diagnose without a more detailed examination.

Only attempt to remove the heater if you are fully competent at making or breaking gas couplings.

Gary who runs arcsystems not only has wide experience of Carver products, but he also has access to some spares and repair facilities, so it might be worth dropping him and email or phone call.
 
Apr 17, 2016
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Hi, thanks for the reply. The heater still fills up when pump switched on and will still get hot to touch when I turn on the fused switch near the floor but I think this is the emergen heater switch? The main control switch with the 3 lights does not light up at all but did once. I have checked all of the fuses in the fuse box, we did have a 5 amp out which I have changed but still no change.

I am planning on having a full service done as its an old van but would like to get the water running first lol, someone on the site suggested the non return valve? Also I think my taps have microswitchs on? Would it be likely for all 4 to be out?

Many Thanks
 

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